Will Spencer (00:01)

Welcome everybody to the Will Spencer podcast. My guest this week is Courtney Turner. Courtney is the host of the Courtney Turner podcast and co-host of Dangerous Dames and What is Movement. She's also a speaker and aerial acrobatic performer. Having spent her academic career largely steeped in the world of philosophical and psychological texts and being a passionate athlete and performing artist, this paved the way for the world in which she is currently immersed. Many today know her as the host of the Courtney Turner podcast,

where she boldly seeks truth, diving into a myriad of deep topics surrounding issues of health, fitness, medicine, philosophy, psychology, politics, geopolitics, and socio-cultural zeitgeist. Courtney Turner, welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast.

Courtenay Turner (00:45)

Thanks so much for having me.

Will Spencer (00:47)

I've been very much looking forward to this conversation because you have a mastery of occult, theosophical topics and understanding how they feed into our world today that I don't think I've ever seen anyone express such a deep and comprehensive understanding of all the many, they'll call it tentacles that stretch into culture and politics. And so I've been really looking forward to having this conversation.

Courtenay Turner (01:11)

Thank you so much. I don't know that I'm the expert, but I've definitely spent some time digging into this stuff.

Will Spencer (01:19)

Yeah,

well, you did the reading and going back to the primary sources, because you can talk about Blavatsky and Theosophy. I saw that you talked about Heidegger as well. And you can talk about these things from the position of, I've read books about them, or you can actually go read their books and see what they had to say in their own words. And as I'm sure you know, that's an incredibly revealing process.

Courtenay Turner (01:41)

Yes, yes, definitely reading the primary sources reveals way more. I often feel like it's really helpful if you read the primary sources, you read it from people who are on the inside, who are, they're not coming from a critical bias. I everybody has a bias, you you can only see through your eyes, right? So they're always gonna come from bias. But I feel like when you read secondary sources, particularly ones that are critical, it's already slanted and selected.

Will Spencer (01:46)

Yes. ⁓

Courtenay Turner (02:10)

So you don't have as much to parse through and make your own assessments. So I actually like reading from those who are promoting it, the insiders. I feel like they reveal way more. And then it's up to me. I can use my discernment. What do I agree with? What do I disagree with? How do I feel about it? But it's not already curated for me. So, yeah.

Will Spencer (02:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's

not going to confirm your existing biases. One of the books I've been talking about recently is Black Sun by Nicholas Goodrick Clark. And so he talks about how all these influences feed into neo-Nazism. But he's only going to pick out the bits that support his thesis naturally, as opposed to who was Helena Blavatsky and what was she really about, et cetera.

Courtenay Turner (02:36)

Alright.

Yes, exactly. It's true.

Will Spencer (02:55)

So what

originally sparked your interest? Well, maybe we can talk a little bit first about your origin story. How did you get into talking about this stuff? It's sort of a pun intended esoteric world to find your way into. Yes.

Courtenay Turner (03:07)

Yeah, pun intended for sure. It was

like the least likely place for me to end up, although knowing my history, it kind of all did come together. if I, know, hindsight's 2020, but if you were to ask me even five years ago, you know, did I think I'd be doing what I do now? I probably would have said no. And I would have thought it was crazy. I mean, had no idea. I had never listened to podcasts. I didn't know what they were in 2020. Like,

Will Spencer (03:26)

Same.

Courtenay Turner (03:33)

Here's kind of a funny story. Someone hearing my birth story had recommended that I should be on Rogan. And I said, why? What's a Rogan? Why do I need to be on it? Yeah, I mean, that's how clueless I was. I'm like, what's a Rogan? Why do I need to be on it? And they were explaining, he's like one of the top podcasts. I'm like, what's a podcast? So I don't have that impression anymore. I'm very aware of who Rogan is, yeah.

Will Spencer (03:42)

What's a Rogan?

Amazing.

Yes.

Yeah.

course.

Courtenay Turner (04:01)

I did my homework and ended up deciding I wanted to start a podcast. But what happened was 2020, that was my kind of awakening, quote unquote. That term seems to be in great debate currently. But that was, I was very much asleep. I would make the joke that it took me forever to find the train station. I found the high-speed rail and I've been scrambling to catch up since then.

Will Spencer (04:17)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Courtenay Turner (04:27)

But

I mean, I was very much in the dark. I was in the entertainment industry. I was in a sea of leftist in New York City and then in California. And I was never politically, at least I didn't identify or align with the left. But I usually tried to keep my views pretty quiet. When I had moved to LA a few years into my being there, somebody had invited me into a

quote unquote, very secret underground ⁓ group, a fellowship that was so secret it was on the front page of the New York Times. ⁓ Yeah. Otherwise known as the FOA, the Friends of Abe. And this was like a fellowship for, ⁓ they say conservative, but it was really anybody who was not on the left, who was in the entertainment industry because so many people were experiencing cancel culture to the extent where they were getting blacklisted.

Will Spencer (05:01)

Okay.

Courtenay Turner (05:21)

They couldn't get work if they were to say anything that didn't fully align with the mainstream narrative at the time. they created a fellowship. It was Gary Sinise who had started it and I had joined that. So then I got a little bit more outspoken. I ended up writing for something called Politixx ⁓ and doing some interviews and I got a little bit more outspoken at the time, but I was really for so long just...

stayed out of it because of the potential ramifications of speaking up. So it was just not something that I was ever expecting I would end up in. But then in 2020, I was working for two gyms. I was a CrossFit coach and a personal trainer, and I was also an aerial acrobatic performer, but I would speak. So I would share my birth story and use the performance as an example, a testament to what was possible when nobody thought.

it was. So, I mean, it was fun to do, which I enjoyed it. So, you know, there was that too. But it was really talking about movement from the philosophical perspective, movement as a metaphor for life and using physical training as a teacher to help you overcome adversities in other areas of life. So that's what I was doing. Of course, 2020 came around. I got fired from both gyms. I can't prove it, but I'm 99.999 repeating forever.

sure that it was over politics and then of course all the events that I was doing all the performing those all got cancelled for a little while I started doing some on zoom but it's you know showing videos of Ariel is not quite the same so yeah and even speaking on zoom it's just not quite the same so I ended up you know not being able to continue much of that and ⁓ yeah so I found myself incredibly isolated everybody was wearing a mask

Will Spencer (07:04)

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (07:19)

I was in Santa Monica, California where, you know, it was pretty tyrannical. so I was, I found myself just incredibly isolated and really depressed, like extremely depressed. I didn't realize how much I still depended on nonverbal communication for clarity of speech until all the coping mechanisms I had spent my life developing, you know, were then stripped from me. So I was born hearing impaired, I'm blind in one eye.

Will Spencer (07:21)

⁓

Courtenay Turner (07:47)

heart surgery when I was year old, a whole bunch of complications from birth. And I got hearing aids when I was about six years old, but I had learned how to speak by reading lips. So I still depend a lot on the nonverbal, which is why even people who've wanted to be anonymous will come on my show and I'll tell them, I won't take anonymous people anymore, by the way, because all of them rescind it always. They always retract it. And I'm like, this is too much time, too much energy. I'm not doing it. So.

Will Spencer (08:09)

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (08:16)

But I have done it a couple of times and I've told them you still have to have it on video because I need to be able to see your lips otherwise, you know, unless it's in person. yeah, so I found myself just in a position where I was really, really depressed and some people had suggested I start a podcast and as I had said, I had no idea what those were. I was completely clueless, but I started listening to podcasts when, you know, when someone mentioned that and that became kind of a...

It was like my friends, you know? I guess the way people ⁓ used to feel about watching TV, you know, they're in your living room. And they kept me company for my long hikes where I would drive an hour and a half away to go for a hike so I didn't have to worry about being arrested on a mountain by myself or having a naked face or being, you know, out on the beach and ⁓ bearing my naked face. That was such a potential threat to people.

Um, but listening to these podcasts was, you know, way to pass the time and not to feel so alone. And then it dawned on me that, you know, if I started one, then at least I could have naked face conversations. And I didn't, you know, I had no idea where it go or if I would even continue, but even remotely through a digital interface, I felt that it would do so much for, my morale and for my, you know, just, uh,

Yeah, my emotional well-being. And so I decided that I would start it and I made a commitment for six months and I told all the guests that I may never air it, you know, that I really just wanted to start six months, see how this goes and, you know, I wanted to be able to have conversations with people, meaningful discussions and see their faces. Well, I so. And so, yeah, I did and people seemed to enjoy it. And so...

That was in 2020. I really didn't start. I think I aired my first episode like January 2021 and yeah, I had started it very much in the political sphere, also in the medical freedom. Obviously, I was really pushing back against things, you know, that they were, you know, advocating that I was not in favor of. I had the final straw before I left was a woman chasing me down the street.

wearing a mask and she had a knife in her hand and she was screaming at me telling me that I was a murderer because I had a naked face. ⁓ So that was, there were many experiences but that was kind of one of the final straws. I like, think it's time for me to go. And I really did start thinking, you know, if we could just get the right people in office, then, you know, we could turn this whole thing around. And I kept saying that the...

Republican Party is behaving as a controlled opposition for the left and about a few months in I was like, no, they were created to be controlled opposition for the left. And I think I really got, you know, I started to go much deeper. It was, I want to say it might've been December of 2020, but I'd have to go back and look exactly when. But a friend of mine at midnight,

And I don't know why. Midnight was like during that time period when I'm ready to, you know, call it a night or I shouldn't have been up anyway. But everybody has emergencies and you have to check this out. And a friend of mine sent me this video from Dr. John Coleman and said, have you ever seen this? And it was his Committee of 300 video, which actually is still on YouTube, surprisingly enough. And I said, no, I've never heard of him, you know.

And said, oh, okay, you have to watch this and then call me back. It's midnight. Of course I have to watch it right now. But it was 2020 and a lot of people had nothing to do. So I guess that's what we did. And so I did. And then I was riveted and I started looking online for all of his books. And I found one that was retailing on Amazon for almost $4,000. Now you can get it for $25.

Plus, you know, shipping and tax and whatever, but it's 25, much more affordable. I don't know if they've edited or whatnot, but at the time I was not paying, you know, $4,000. I didn't have that kind of disposable income. Yeah, exactly. So I did not purchase the book. I did go and get an online PDF, but I read it three times in a week because it was very captivating and it was such a... It was the Tabistock book, the Institute of...

Will Spencer (12:38)

for a book.

Courtenay Turner (12:54)

human relations and I read it three times a week because for me it kind of converged all the fields I have been immersed in. know, the entertainment industry, the culture, philosophy, psychology, you know, and around 2010, 2011 is when a lot of people in that group, FOA, have been buzzing about the Frankfurt School and how it had infiltrated the entertainment industry.

I had done quite a bit of research and I was a philosophy major also, so I was very familiar with those philosophers and psychologists, ⁓ but had a very different perspective on them in the 2010s ⁓ time frame. And so I had already done Dive in That and the Tavistock kind of intersected the two. And I think once you start diving into that stuff, you can't really ignore the occult ⁓ groupings that are...

kind of the hidden hands behind things. So yeah, sorry, it was a long winded.

Will Spencer (13:52)

know,

it's funny your your answer I sort of feel like I've been transported back to where I was at in 2020. I you know, I'd spent a long time in the new age and I was aware of lot of the names that I'm sure we'll get into. But remembering the medical freedom remember the the masking remembering all like all the videos going around at the time because we're all locked inside having to watch YouTube and listen to podcasts. And it's funny that you mentioned the john colman book the committee of 300.

Courtenay Turner (13:58)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Will Spencer (14:20)

because another one of my guests, Mike Williams, who does a lot of work with the Beatles, he referenced that book as well as very formative for him. I wasn't aware that it was $4,000 at one point on Amazon, but that was also a very formative book for him, Tavistock. And of course, man, I haven't heard about the Frankfurt School. That was the whole big thing for a couple of years there. mean, obviously they're still very influential, but yeah, please go ahead.

Courtenay Turner (14:21)

Yeah.

yeah, no, it was ⁓ so before I actually had my own podcast, it's what everybody brought me on to talk about was the Frankfurt School. Because most of the people I was surrounded by were leftists and they kept telling me, this is a crazy conspiracy theorist. And I was like, I don't know why people are calling this a conspiracy theorist. It's conspiracy theory. It's literally like mainline history. I mean, is part of anybody who's taken a philosophy class knows about these philosophers. Like this is, or anybody who's studied psychology one-on-one knows these psychologists. So.

Will Spencer (15:03)

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (15:13)

I don't really understand. And then somebody sent me a Wikipedia excerpt and it literally right under Frankfurt School says conspiracy theory. And I was like, this is crazy. I mean, this is just like mainline, you know, academic material. This is not, this is history. ⁓ So, but a lot of the people who I knew at the time who were doing podcasts were mostly on the left and they would bring me on to, you know, kind of argue with me about the Frankfurt School.

Will Spencer (15:42)

What did they argue? Did they say the Frankfurt School didn't exist or that these guys didn't say what their writings say that they said? What was their position?

Courtenay Turner (15:42)

Yeah.

Well, they argued, you know, the Wikipedia point that at that talking point that it was a conspiracy theory so it wasn't real and that these are just misinterpreted philosophers and that they weren't really trying to subvert anything and I'm like you all you have to do is read Mark Husted like literally he says Liberating tolerance would mean accept everything from the left and reject everything from the right. That is a quote. It's a direct quote It's not you know, this isn't like interpretive kind of you know

manipulative language games this is just direct quote from him so I don't know you may support what they're doing that's fine you can argue that you think that their stance is justifiable but that's they were just arguing with me that you know I was crazy and making things up and okay well I had one one guy who brought me on a couple of times and he

I mean, he would always tell me, because I would get into debates with him all the time. I remember one time I went to his house and I actually brought a stack of books. And I said, okay, we want to discuss this, you know, like, let's talk about it. And I brought a stack of books to his house. And he said, oh, Courtney, I can't read primary sources from philosophers. And I said, so you've been, you spent like the past year arguing with me about these thinkers that you've never read. And he said, well, I the, you know, secondary or tertiary sources. And I'm like,

So you don't know what they've actually said. And he said, well, I can't understand the primary source. I'm like, you don't know what they said. How can you be arguing with me? I mean, it's fine. I'm not telling you you have to read them, but don't argue with me about something you've never read.

Will Spencer (17:30)

That sounds like a personal problem that you can't read these sources and yet you're gonna argue with me who actually has. Maybe I shouldn't talk to you anymore. We might not be on the same intellectual level.

Courtenay Turner (17:39)

Yeah,

it was interesting.

Will Spencer (17:44)

Yes, I can imagine. So you were in Santa Monica at the time, I believe you said, and so I imagine that that was all these big shifts, your egg being removed from a CrossFit gym. That's a little weird, because I always thought that CrossFit guys were a little bit more on the conservative side.

Courtenay Turner (17:48)

you

You would think so. And actually one of the gyms I worked at, the owner, it was two owners, and one of them was actually a good friend of mine. That's how I ended up falling into the position. It was like I took the certification just for myself, but I lived very close to the gym and I was friends with the owner. And one day I showed up for class and they were talking about how the coach just didn't show up that morning. And that's why the owner was teaching.

And I said, you I live, you know where I live, because he would always come to use my building's pool. So he knew where I lived. And ⁓ he was like, and I said to him, you know, I have my certification. If you're ever in a position where that happens, I mean, can't promise, but if I'm available, I'm happy to coach. Well, it was happening for like consecutively for a month. And they just kept asking me, can you come? Can you come? And ⁓ yeah, finally he's like, I think we should just hire you because.

Yeah, clearly there were problems there. But that was how I ended up doing it. I mean, I had gotten the certification already. But he was, a friend of mine. always, you know, he knew where I stood, like we were not exactly aligned, but they were both Navy SEALs. And I had made a comment about how, you know, I literally just repeated, you know, the Ben Franklin line that if you're willing to trade, you know, your security for a little bit of, sorry, a little bit of freedom for security, then you deserve neither.

I'm paraphrasing it, but you know, that's the gist of it. And ⁓ he, they had such a hard time. They said, you don't understand the younger generation and what they've been through. And I mean, they just railed against me for a good half hour telling me that I was an idiot. And I was shocked. Like, wow. I mean, these are Navy SEALs. I didn't think that was a controversial kind of statement, but yeah. And then the other one, it was over some of the, you know,

requirements at the time and because I'm hearing impaired I was like I can't do this I just yeah so yeah and that was super woke though like the other there were two that the the one I worked there the one that was closer to me that I ended up working in two but the other gym was super woke like overtly woke the one that would you know was my friends was ⁓ they were definitely clearly they had more woke ⁓

Will Spencer (19:56)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. That's, I mean, I think one of the things.

Courtenay Turner (20:21)

kind of sensibilities, they were definitely not politically aligned, but they were, it wasn't super overt until then.

Will Spencer (20:29)

got it. So they didn't, they didn't make it super obvious that, you they were on the left. It wasn't like they had rainbow pride flags hanging up. You only discovered.

Courtenay Turner (20:37)

The other

gym did, the other one that I got fired from did and I had the, so the, one of my coworkers at the gym with the two Navy Seals had brought me into that other gym and she had reached out to me and said she was so disappointed in me because I didn't put a black square for Blackout Tuesday. And I, yeah, and you know, I tried just to be polite. I always knew she was like a radical feminist. She was a hardcore leftist and

Will Spencer (20:58)

goodness.

Courtenay Turner (21:06)

I knew we were not super aligned, but very sweet girl and like we were definitely friendly. So I didn't see any reason to be confrontational with her. I just said, you know, I think we can do a lot more for a cause in person than, you know, virtue signaling with a square on my Instagram. And she started, she just kept pushing back telling me that I had a responsibility and she said, you know, we can't just be white feminists. And that was when I was like, wow. And I kind of was just baffled. I said, I've never.

claim to be a feminist, so I'm a little confused. And that's not what...

Will Spencer (21:39)

That's funny when you get, go ahead.

Well, it's funny when you get roped into a Wii that you didn't quite realize that you were a part of.

Courtenay Turner (21:48)

Yes, yes. So, yeah, that got me a ⁓ earful, or rather, a eyeful of text that I really had no interest in engaging with. And I really just tried to be very polite and dismissive, but, you know, they were continuously coming after me on all the platforms, and, ⁓ you know, you know how the ⁓ swarm tactics go. So I'm very familiar with them now, but that was my foray into social media swarm, you know, gang stalking.

Will Spencer (22:20)

Don't I know about the social media swarms? You know, it seemed, and that's one of the oddest things about our age today is it feels very much like if you cross a certain line.

you'll get it from both the left and the right these days, especially the right these days. But I was in the Manosphere a couple of years ago, 2020 to 2022 roughly. And I observed even back then that like, so I expected to make the left mad with talking about feminism and stuff like that. But I was completely unprepared for just how bad a right wing swarm would be when you make the bros mad.

The bros are so much, so much worse. And like, that's just an odd facet of our age where it's like, okay, so maybe we don't have to worry about censorship as much as we used to. Like, I know that, you know, I posted, my goodness, I posted a clip of myself on a podcast that I was on and we'll call it 2021, right? Something like that. I posted a clip from someone else's podcast. I posted it last year, 2024, probably even after the election, something like that. And I was talking about the jab and all the different stuff.

Courtenay Turner (22:59)

you

Will Spencer (23:27)

Even

three years later, I got a hard warning over medical misinformation from three years prior of stuff that's all been validated now. And so that was one form of censorship where the dialogue is controlled by institutional forces. But now we're seeing it enforced by bot armies or, I don't know, ideologues. I don't really know what, but it's a sad facet of it.

Courtenay Turner (23:40)

Mm-hmm. Sure.

Cybernetic

algorithmic feedback loops is essentially what's going on. Yeah Well, there there's a lot to say about that but that that's where we're at So so this firstly I'll just a little I think you may have seen this but funny story about like pissing off both the left and the right of the dialectic I posted a video ⁓ on Instagram because I I'm so censored on Facebook and Instagram. I've kind of just stopped posting anything significant It's mostly just like my fitness material

Will Spencer (23:57)

say more about that.

Courtenay Turner (24:21)

I had started, I started my Instagram as a like training diary for when I tried out for American Ninja Warrior. So I've just kind of left it as more of a fitness blog kind of thing. But I posted a video, it even like on my main page, it was in my story of me deadlifting. And some guy reached out to me to tell me that I was a feminist because I was, because I liked working out. This is like the most asinine thing I've heard of like.

in very long time, it was so funny that I posted it. I was like, this is just hilarious, you know? ⁓ And I was like, yeah, I remember a few years ago when they were saying that exercise is like extreme right wingism. Like, it's amazing. I've managed to piss off both sides of the dielectric by lifting a barbell. That's, you know, ⁓ great, good job guys. But the worst of the swarms I've experienced is actually talking about the bio digital convergence stuff.

Will Spencer (25:10)

Goodness. Well done.

Courtenay Turner (25:19)

And I, though they are vicious, vicious. And the only thing I can conclude is that they must be some sort of an operation, where then there must be like bots involved. But I think that it is designed to discredit and gatekeep the information because they came after me really hard when I shared a white paper. And I was like, that's like, it's a white paper. And if you cared about the information getting out, wouldn't you be happy I shared, you know, a white paper?

Will Spencer (25:19)

Mmm.

Courtenay Turner (25:48)

So it was very, very strange, but it went on for a long time. Like I actually had to block most of those people, which is unfortunate because some of the information that they put out is great, you know, but the, don't need that kind of abuse in my life. So my emotional sanity was way more important. So I ended up blocking most of them, but yeah. So cybernetic, the algorithmic side cybernetic feedback loops. So cybernetics is, you know, a field of study, Wiener back in the, I think it was in the fifties.

And it is this kind of study of essentially it's built on the extension of Tavistock ⁓ sociotechnical systems. ⁓ This was like Eric Trist and ⁓ Emory who were working on how people interact with technology and environments. This is really the very like broad breast brush strokes kind of clip notes, ⁓ colloquial layman kind of terms, but that's essentially what it was. And Cybernetics is studying

feedback loops. And so now that we, that the socio-technical systems have advanced so much, we're in an era where we really are already, you know, people talk about the transhumanism, right, but we're already ⁓ cybernetically engaged and our, even our neurology has been altered by the screens. So the way we engage with information, the way that we process information has all been altered by our screen time.

Will Spencer (27:06)

⁓

Courtenay Turner (27:13)

But CyberNex is this feedback loop, the study of feedback loops. So now we have these algorithms who data mine from people. And then they take that information and it's all done mostly under the guise of marketing, like right? We just want to target you with ads that you want to see. So that, know, when you talk about hip pain, we're going to find like the thing that's going to cure it and we'll feed it right to you. Just silly example, but you know, that's how they...

That's how they sell it to us, that that's what that's about. ⁓ And in part it is, because obviously, you know, marketing is all about profiteering and so, you know, that is part of it. But part of it is also so they can data mine you and figure out what information to feed you. But what happens is that becomes a cyclical feedback loop where you're now becoming siloed and programmed.

So this is why, you know, we'll take Twitter as just an example, but it's just one social media example. a really good document to look on this is the cognitive warfare document. This was done by NATO intelligence. ⁓ This was back in 2020. And they talk about how they're going to use these cybernetic feedback loops and particularly weaponize emotions. and anger was a really big one. So a lot of it is about targeting people to get a reaction.

And so it's heightened response because people who are either afraid or angry are much more susceptible to a suggestion. And so this way, now you've got these algorithms that are like, well, the exam, I was going to say, if you open up Twitter, for example, when I open my Twitter feed, although I, you know, I have my, I have it set to all and I, I don't even have any kind of specifications like that I select, but based on my history,

I'm fed a whole bunch of things, whether I follow these people or not. Now somebody else may open their Twitter feed and see something totally different. This is because the algorithms have been not only ⁓ feeding you, but they've been data mining you, and it's become cybernetic. So it's a feedback loop. They mine from you, and then they feed you information, which programs you. So now people, if I open my ⁓ feed and all I see is a...

know, racial violence, like people calling for racial violence, then I think, my goodness, this is what's going on everywhere. That's my impression because it's all I see when I go to my feed. And that's a, so it gives people an impression of what's going on. And what happens is although that becomes very heightened in the online sphere, because of course people are.

willing to say much more than they would if they were looking someone directly in the eye. Right? Keyboard warriors are ⁓ much more bold than, say, you know, people when they have to face the humanity of another person on the other side and they have to stare them in the eye. It's a very different experience. But what happens is that actually gets extrapolated into the real world because people's perception has been manipulated and twisted. So...

Will Spencer (30:22)

I'm marveling at the speed. I think you started out by saying you were trying to catch up to a high speed train. So I'm kind of marveling at the speed that you went from not knowing what a podcast was to five years in the future, like talking about cybernetic feedback loops and data mining. I mean, that's, that must.

Courtenay Turner (30:29)

Yeah.

Will Spencer (30:41)

That must be a big transition for you within yourself and your understanding of yourself. Perhaps I can mention you're also married. Maybe that's been a big part of it. You don't have to talk about this, but your relationship as well. Of course, you're welcome to if you'd like. But like I'm just reflecting on how much how many of us have changed in the past five years into probably what are relatively unrecognizable versions of ourselves compared to where we were. So I'm anxious to dive into more of those topics, but maybe maybe you can talk a little bit about that personal shift because

Courtenay Turner (31:01)

you

Will Spencer (31:09)

I haven't heard anyone talk about it quite in the same way.

Courtenay Turner (31:14)

Sure, well, though for me, like I said, I was pretty asleep and, you know, really just a... I mean, when I say asleep, I mean, I was really asleep. But I think people have planted seeds along the way. And I think this is really important for people to understand, because I know sometimes you get very frustrated when you have all this information. And I've been told by people, you're speaking over their head, nobody knows what you're talking about. I'm like, that's okay, just plant the seeds.

And that's why I always bring receipts. So I know sometimes my material can get kind of boring because I will literally read the quotes. And I've had people say, they're like, you're literally just reading it. Yeah, because from the horse's mouth. So this is not me making it up. And I'm showing it on the screen. And I do that intentionally so that you can then make your own decision. But now you know where to go read the rest of it.

I think it's really important for people to just plant the seeds because they don't have to get it then. And I know this would happen for me. So I had people who were, I guess what you call, truthers. I kind of really hate that term. It's been a little lately, because it's been kind of co-opted. But I had people in my life, you know, who were in that sphere and they really tried to open my eyes and I was just not ready at all.

And everybody's got their reasons. For me, it was because my dad and I had kind of a, we had a complicated relationship, but most of what he was willing to talk to me about was intellectual. So, you he would talk to me about politics, he would, you know, discuss, you know, books, ideas, and I didn't know it at the time, but he was really a neocon. And so if I brought up any of the, you know, kind of narratives or,

questions that I had around this, you know, I guess what you'd call it the truth or space. He would tell me that that's crazy, it's conspiracy theory, you can't listen to these crazy people. And so I felt like I couldn't risk losing the relationship with my father to really investigate. So I really just shut it off. But I did have people along the way who kept planting the seeds. And then of course 2020 came around, my father had passed. And my now husband,

was very patient with me. just kept kind of planting seeds. And he's like, oh, okay. I was ready to receive some things. I wasn't ready to receive others. But I think the big turning point for me was I knew when the supposed outbreak happened, I knew they were gonna start pushing jabs. I knew that intuitively, that that's what that was all about.

and I had such a bad feeling about it. So I started doing a lot of research and at the time I had been, you know, totally pro-Jabs, like regular Jabs. So the narrative, and this is a whole rabbit hole that we don't have to go down. I mean, I know it's quite controversial for people, but I've studied it quite extensively. The whole Turing theory versus germ theory, just to give you the umbrella.

Will Spencer (34:21)

Yeah, yeah.

Courtenay Turner (34:22)

Yeah, so the narrative that I was told was that I was born with congenital rubella. So the story goes that my mom had germ measles during first trimester of pregnancy and so they had done a test for the titer, the doctor read the titer as being 112 and they said no, he was dyslexic and it was really 121. My parents actually sued for my birth. The alternative would have been abortion and so it was considered a wrongful birth. Then they say wrong for life but...

You know, that was kind of the argument was that they could have awarded me if the doctor hadn't been dyslexic. ⁓ yeah, I have lots of opinions about that as well. Yeah, but I, so I started doing a major, but of course, because I had been told my whole life that the whole reason I had all of these physical challenges was because my parents hadn't taken the, you know, rebella immunization.

Will Spencer (35:00)

There's a lot going on there.

Courtenay Turner (35:17)

And so of course I've now become very familiar with Dr. Steven Lenka and you who won't even allow himself to be called a virologist. He's like denounced his entire field and all his degrees. And he actually brought it to the Supreme Court of Germany and nobody could disprove him. I think he, and he put up a lot of money for it. He said, you know, I'm willing to pay anybody who can disprove me. I think it was Braden or Barton's, I might be mispronouncing it.

⁓ but who on a technicality, but yeah, he, basically it's the nobody has been able to disprove him. And so all that just to say that I started really researching and I don't necessarily believe that that story is a hundred percent accurate. ⁓ but that, that narrative is what needs to be promulgated in order to sell the, you know, the fear to sell the solution, which is the Jabs. And so.

I ended up writing a bunch of articles, one of them which I wrote as a speculative piece on shedding and I was really hoping to be proven completely wrong. At the time I was doing a publication, was called Truth Matters. It was actually Alithia Tamada, Truth Matters in Greek. One of my business partners on that passed away actually because of jabs, interestingly enough.

She was yeah, she was in the military and she had never had she had never been to a doctor like in her life very very healthy she was one of 11 and yeah had never been to a doctor and she had gotten away with two years and then they found out and when they found out they insisted within two weeks that she get caught up and within two weeks of that she developed cancer and

The interesting thing is all the doctors she saw were very honest with her that that's what triggered it. did tell me, apparently she had a gene, she was predisposed to this type of cancer, but they told her without those ⁓ injections that she probably would never have the epigenetic expression.

Will Spencer (37:27)

What? We're sorry. Catch you next time. Oops. my goodness.

Courtenay Turner (37:28)

Yeah.

Yeah,

if there's a yeah reincarnation maybe but ⁓ I don't know how that works out ⁓

Will Spencer (37:39)

I don't about that. ⁓ No, I don't about that. But yeah, that's

the medical field. The medical field, what a disaster.

Courtenay Turner (37:47)

So yeah, so I wrote

on shedding, which I was really hoping would be disproven. And it was a speculative piece. I made it very clear it was a speculative piece, but I had 39 sources in it. So it was very well-reserved. And yeah, so now I have it up on my website. But at the time, it had gotten circulated, and a lot of doctors were passing it around. And it has very much been vindicated, unfortunately.

Will Spencer (38:11)

goodness. You know, I guess I was very happy to leave a lot of these discussions in the rear of your mirror. I know there's a lot of conversation. I think it's a valid conversation about like, hey, why has no one been held accountable for any of this? Are we just going to forget that there was a whole two years that the whole world was shut down and we were forced to let go of our lives and everything. And I have, I mean, I collected folders full of information during that whole time undermining the narrative and I could still present some of the stuff. And it just seems like there's a collective desire to kind of

move on like, hey, you know, that was a big, a big L for civilization, but we'll be okay. But then as we talk about these things, it's like, I don't know where the reckoning is going to come from, because it's so serious, the things that were done to all of us that I understand that we're anxious to forget it. I surely am. And where does accountability start to come in for these disasters?

Courtenay Turner (39:00)

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know that there will be. I know a lot of people really want to see retribution and justice and I understand that, but I think that even if we do, it's going to be kind of like Nuremberg. And Nuremberg to me was not a success. Like this was basically the cover for Operation Paperclip where we just settled in all of these scientists, right? And now we just put them under the American intelligence programs.

And I think it just I don't really think it ever ended but you know, that's obviously I can't prove that but There's a lot of evidence to indicate that I'm right though. And I think ⁓ Annie Jacobson has done some really good work in that arena, but

Will Spencer (39:37)

So the... ⁓

When you say you don't think it ever ended what do you mean? Do you mean specifically like Nazi National Socialist research or is that what you because I've encountered some

Courtenay Turner (39:51)

Yeah, all the scientific

research that they were doing, a lot of the bio weapons research they were doing. I think in many ways NASA was a cover for it. I think the American Cancer Association was also a really big kind of like, you know, funnel for the money, but a cover front. Yeah, there's so much money that gets funneled into it and

You know, people can argue about what they actually accomplish, but I mean, the American Cancer Association just go to their own website and of their own admission, they will say that we, you know, we've received these exorbitant funds. I haven't seen it recently, but I remember the last time I was looking into it, I mean, it was like hundreds and hundreds of millions, like billions of dollars, you know, and ⁓ they were saying how, ⁓ you know, we haven't really been able to make a dent, but you know, if you give us more money.

Well, we'll solve the problem. And I'm sorry, I don't have the exact stats, so don't quote me on how much, but it's exorbitant amount of money. And yeah, of their own admission though, they're like, we have not been able to even make a dent in this problem, but yeah, don't worry, keep sending us more money. So what exactly are you doing? And I think there's a lot of evidence to indicate that they're not trying to solve the problem because there's so many doctors who have ⁓ come up with all sorts of great, wonderful.

⁓ Things and I don't know how much I can say here. So I'll just say great wonderful things and you know, they've been Horrifically punished as a result. So

Will Spencer (41:20)

Yes. So a good friend of mine, Tim, shout out Tim. He's big into medical freedom, holistic health. He's been a friend for about a decade or more actually at this point.

Courtenay Turner (41:24)

you

Will Spencer (41:31)

And I remember ⁓ back when COVID started to happen, back, we're talking like February, March of 2020. I remember like, we're both looking at this. He lives in Australia, so it's more or less straight up tyranny there. But we were both looking at that and being like, yeah, we know exactly where this is going. You could see right away, like this is, but we even, we didn't know at the time the...

Courtenay Turner (41:43)

Yeah. yeah.

Will Spencer (41:56)

where the jabs were gonna be, what was going to be introduced to us at the time. And it's just to see how far it's all evolved. And again, no accountability and how these are not problems that anyone is actually genuinely trying to solve. The system is merely trying to propagate itself at our expense. And the injustice is staggering when you see it that way.

Courtenay Turner (42:10)

No.

Yeah, and I mean, I think the whole medical freedom movement, unfortunately, was really in many ways an op just to move the Overton window. Yeah, I do, absolutely. So most people traditionally, historically, just look at it from this perspective, most people historically speaking, who were opposed to, you know, who supported My Body, My Choice, not in the pro-abortion sense, but you know, they were typically actually on the left. There was a lot of like the crunchy moms and

Will Spencer (42:24)

really?

Courtenay Turner (42:47)

You know, yeah, they were just typically on the left and they were into more holistic and medicine and what happened in 2020 with the medical freedom movement came in and Suddenly they put a right wing banner on them They kind of like put a little bow around them said you're now Whatever conservative Republican libertarian they but they put them in the right wing camp and a lot of those people were actually very confused Really? I've always been on the left. I've always voted Democrat. I'm you know

hardcore leftist, whatever, you know, whatever they said. And they were very confused by it, but a lot of them said, okay, I guess I'm a right winger now. And I think it was a way to shift the overton window. And this again is speculation. nobody, you know, hold me to this. When I have a theory, I'll let you know it's a theory. ⁓ But my theory is that actually I think that the Knights of Malta were behind it because the Knights of Malta actually started as the Knights of Hospitalier.

Will Spencer (43:39)

Let's go.

Courtenay Turner (43:45)

And even today, their exoteric veneer is that they are a medical charity organization. so I think that they often operate through the quote unquote right-wing, political, because they are tied to like militaristic orders. So typically the different various occult, at least I look at it ⁓ from kind of the left tends to be more divine feminine.

and they operate through, you they're very emotionally charged. ⁓ It's more about worshiping like ⁓ Mother Earth, Gaia, religion. And then the right wing tends to be, you know, there was that whole authoritarian test, right? And so it tends to be more paternal, patriarchal, more ⁓ authoritarian, disciplinarian, and militaristic. And so they tend to operate that way. That's a part of their... ⁓

how they infiltrate from what I've seen. And so, and the nice Malta, you know, that we would follow. So that is my theory. Again, you know, I haven't found like the whole, don't think I'm ever gonna find the smoking gun to prove that, but it would make sense. And I think they're constantly, they're always shifting the over 10 window. What do we see today? Today we see, you know, people who a year ago on the quote unquote right wing,

who would have never bought an electric vehicle because they didn't buy into the climate narrative. And what are we seeing now that Elon works for the Trump administration? That the people are rushing out to buy Teslas, cheering these electric vehicles. Like, what happened to you? So here we go again, the Overton window shifts.

Will Spencer (45:23)

Yeah.

It's so wild, especially because Elon was the hero for buying electric, for propagating electric vehicles. And now the left is like going back and buying gasoline, guzzling SUVs as a rebellion against Elon. It's like, okay, fine.

Let's just look at this for a second, okay? You don't like Elon, but didn't you just spend the past 30 years saying how much gas and climate change and all that, and so you're going to abandon all of your principles that you've been pushing from an inconvenient truth onward basically, and do this out of hatred for Elon Musk? Like, do you have any core at all? Is there anyone home? It's baffling to me.

Courtenay Turner (45:57)

Yep.

It's all identity politics, it's all cult of personality. I just tweeted this actually, but right before we got on, I just wish people would spend a fraction of the time they do, you know, worshipping or vilifying cult of personality, engaging in actual ideas. If they just spent like a fraction of the time engaging in the ideas themselves, like I don't care about the people. Most of the time we don't know the people.

Will Spencer (46:29)

⁓

Courtenay Turner (46:35)

Most of the time people are, you know, worshiping or vilifying people they've never met based on some online persona. It's a persona, right? There's a reason it's persona, not their personality, not their character's persona. So this is a facade that you were seeing that has been marketed to you strategically, by the way. And, you know, I think people are just so deracinated from themselves, sense of self, that they...

You know, they start to, they want to feel a sense of belonging and they just, they anchor to things. And so they're really easily swayed and, you know, pushed into these various cults. And yeah, very frustrating to watch.

Will Spencer (47:15)

I'm so glad that you see that because coming from the Manosphere, that's exactly what I saw was small little mini cults of personality. You know, we and our little cult of personality in this particular topic around masculinity, we have the secret knowledge and follow me for more secret knowledge and only I will tell you what to do and don't listen to the other guy who's saying the exact same thing in a different way and men paying to get closer to the guru and and like an understanding that

Courtenay Turner (47:24)

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Will Spencer (47:43)

the masses who were involved in this, they weren't engaging with ideas. They couldn't pop out of the little circle. They would just, it would be team versus team of man versus man. And I was like, what are we doing? And then I see it now on such a larger level, especially from people who self identify as intellectuals or I'm informed and I'm gonna rally behind my guy and you rally behind, like stop it, quit it.

Courtenay Turner (48:00)

Yeah.

I think so few people actually read anything today. Yeah. So I think, and we live in a soundbite culture. And so, but here's the thing. Reading is part of how people create inner monologues. I've recently learned that apparently a large percentage of population actually doesn't have an inner monologue, which is terrifying. They're literally in the East. Like literally. Um, because they're, I mean, that's how you, can program somebody so easily if they don't have an internal monologue. Um, but I think.

Will Spencer (48:15)

Yeah.

I know, it doesn't make any sense.

Courtenay Turner (48:41)

that part of identity is your thought processes. And it's so intrinsic to being human that people do crave it, even though so few do it these days. And reading is part of how you develop that internal monologue and how you develop that thought process, that process of thinking that is just, you know, it's like essential to being human, I think, and consciousness and developing your consciousness.

So I think that what's happened is because people don't spend time doing that but yet they crave it they get a little taste of it from these pop intellectuals and Then they think they've done the thinking themselves. So what happens is becomes voyeurism voyeuristic intellectualism so it's almost like you watch like when you watch a Movie or play or listen to you know a piece of any kind of art form really I mean I had the power to you know effectuate change on a cellular level

And but it what it also does and part of the reason it's so powerful and this is part of why it's powerful for propaganda is because When you watch it people will allow themselves to have an emotional experience that they might not be able to access otherwise So like a very we'll just take the kind of stereotype like the Manosphere, you know, very macho kind of guy who'd never allow himself to cry in public Maybe never allows himself to cry at all even in front of his family or you know, but go see some sort of a

you know, really tear-jerker movie and then like starts bawling. And that's so cathartic, right? Because even the really macho guy has emotions and sometimes just needs that release. And so, you know, that's the power of, ⁓ you know, an art form. But now we're seeing this through intellectual lectures, even the podcast sphere, and people think they've actually done the thinking themselves, but they've heard somebody often just bloviate for a very long time.

And they think that they've engaged in this really deep intellectual thought processes, but they haven't worked anything out for themselves. It's been voyeuristic. And I think that's a huge part of the problem. And so now people end up responding and reacting to that because it was so emotional for them that they align and they identify with that experience, but without having developed their own inner monologue about the ideas themselves.

Will Spencer (50:58)

Mm-hmm very well said very well said and and as a podcast host myself, you know I I hope that I encourage my listeners to go read books for yourselves think about these issues for yourselves and please don't let me do the thinking for you, but it's really important and I will often get into arguments with people over audiobooks

and they would get people get super worked up over this when I say that audio books are not the same as reading. What do you mean I have to do this when I do this like no no no sit down pick up a real book for exactly the reason that you describe is that to sit down and read a physical print book not a Kindle. I don't necessarily have a problem with Kindles but I think there's something very different about a physical print book. Sit down because especially because it's not doing backlight in your eyes but sit down and reading that and that helps you develop the inner monologue think about things at your own pace. You're not just passing

Courtenay Turner (51:24)

or not.

Yeah.

Will Spencer (51:49)

massively

allowing words to wash over you. And people get really upset when I say that, but like, the way that you learn to think for yourself is you have to chew on very substantial material inside your own head. And that forces you to think as opposed to letting the narrator do the thinking for you.

Courtenay Turner (51:50)

We'll to you.

Exactly. I mean, it's a muscle like anything else. I mean, you have to use it or you lose it. And, you know, I think there's a time and a place for an audiobook. I mean, we live in a very busy world and, you know, I think it's better than nothing. If you're able to do, if you do long drives or your manual laborer. I mean, I know a lot of, like truck drivers are some of most like awake and knowledgeable people because they listen to books and podcasts all day. So, you know, they definitely have the time and a place, but there is something very different about

Will Spencer (52:14)

Of course.

Yes.

Yes, of course.

Courtenay Turner (52:36)

actively engaging with the visual written material. And I mean it goes even further if you take notes or you highlight or you, know, even I put sticky marks, you know. But now you're engaging with the material. It's no longer just being fed to you. And I think that's the problem. We live in a world where so few people are able to formulate their own ideas and opinions because they've been spoon fed. oftentimes when things are spoon fed, sometimes it's not even intentional, right? It's just...

You're going to be... ⁓ You're taking in the inherent bias that might not even be intentionally, you know, malignant. But of course, it's also a very, very great tool for propaganda, so...

Will Spencer (53:22)

Yeah, I mean you have to, today we all have to protect.

our cognitive abilities. can, it's very easy to get in the hypno trance of a TV show or a movie or a podcast or, you know, social media, right? I think there's so much in our environment that wants to literally in trance us as like put us in a trance, lull us into passivity and as video games, right? I don't think that that's inherently bad in and of itself. I think it's escapism, entertainment, all of these things are fine. But when it becomes your default way of life, and then when you throw in our

artificial intelligence or large language models to do a lot of the thinking for us, or I'm not going to read this book, I'm just going to have AI give me a digest of it, that muscle starts to get very weak. And it's so ironic that we're talking in an age where you have like RFK Jr. and the Department of Health and Human Services, I think, being so fit and working out. And it's like at the same time where people are focusing on the gym, they're not working out in the mental gym as hard as they used to. I don't know what to make about that, but.

Courtenay Turner (54:23)

Yeah,

yeah, no, absolutely. And the AI is a huge, huge problem. So I think it can be a tool. The tool inherently is not evil. But my biggest concern is with children who are growing up with this. like you were saying, outsourcing your cognitive faculties to the AI. Now you're trusting the AI to do it for you. I think it's like the old adage, you have to know the rules before you can break them. So if you have already developed your...

Will Spencer (54:31)

Yes, absolutely.

Courtenay Turner (54:50)

cognition and you use it as a tool. I think it can actually be a very helpful tool. And I think it is inevitable. Unfortunately, this is the age we're in. They're going to advance this AI. It is already doubling like per month. Every three months, it's doubling in its capacity and speed. And it's kind of insane. It's a little mind blowing and mean, kind of exciting and kind of terrifying, all those things.

Will Spencer (54:54)

Yes, agreed.

Courtenay Turner (55:14)

⁓ wrapped into one, but my concern is how much of it is being utilized in the schools and the children don't have fully developed frontal lobes. They're, you know, they're first learning how to develop their own critical thinking skills and they're already outsourcing all of that. So it's like being given a calculator before you've learned how to do basic arithmetic. Most of us have very significantly deteriorated our math skills thanks to the calculator.

Will Spencer (55:42)

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (55:42)

I'm speaking for myself there. You know, yeah, so I've outsourced a lot of that and you know, I'm very aware of it. But you know, we make choices and as an adult, I think that's fine to do. But I learned how to do and I was actually very good at math when I was little, you know, but so at least I had the, I had that foundational development. And I think that's so important for us to recognize, I think for parents to understand that. And you know, it's not for me to tell people what to do.

It's just to have that awareness when you're thinking about what's best for your children. my personal opinion, think giving them the technology and those tools before they develop their own is potentially very beneficial.

Will Spencer (56:27)

yeah, I have a Christian audience and homeschoolers are a big part of that and I think homeschooling is probably one of the most important things that awaken aware parents of any faith background really can do is I think because that gives them the opportunity to say, hey child, I'm not going to I'm not going to dumb this down for you. Like I'm going to give you this problem and you're going to have to work.

your way through it without the use of aids that other kids will have. And yes, of course, it's difficult, but you run that forward a number of years and you have kids who can think, not just think for themselves, but they can think, period. They can reason, they can do math, they can digest complex ideas in books.

And I don't know actually what that does to humanity. This is something, this is a question that I heard someone articulate a couple years ago maybe that when you have this big split coming where you have families that are going towards a more natural holistic health, homeschooling, filtered water, you name it, right? And they're raising their kids with this, no jabs, et cetera. They're raising their kids with this. And then you have the...

called the normie population who are consuming factory-made food and public school and screens, especially screens for young kids. And the cognitive impact of that on a young child who gets addicted to a screen at three or five years old, I don't think we can measure the devastation from that child's potential. But when you have those two paths, and there's really kind of only two of them, or they're certainly diverging, how do you avoid creating a two-tier society?

where you just have one generation of kids that are just so much more capable than their cohort. And COVID began that where you had many kids who, what was it, language was so drastically impacted by kids that went to online learning. I don't know what we do about that, that, yeah, exactly.

Courtenay Turner (58:20)

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah. Well, just the mask alone. Covering that.

Yeah. Well, I think that there's a lot to unpack in that because what's going on with the, I don't know how familiar you are with the work I've done on the school choice issue. I think I've done like literally, oh, okay. I've done over 30 shows on it, maybe more. I have lost count at this point. I've battled in my own state. There are two topics that happened to be my governor's like,

Will Spencer (58:33)

Yes.

not.

Courtenay Turner (58:53)

pet projects and apparently those are the two. I've been a thorn in his side. So I don't think I'm their favorite person. But his two pet projects are this school choice initiative, which is a very long agenda. And then the conservation easements. So the conservation easements were a part of this bigger agenda, which was the natural asset companies. did like a, you know, I called it an emergency broadcast. I actually had a whole show.

prepared for my radio show and then I was like, I like dropped all of it. I said, have to do this. This is like, you know, if I'm going to do a radio show, it has to be something, you know, this is too important to let go. So the natural asset companies, they did get rescinded. They withdrew the proposal, but they've just renamed it. It's now being called the sustained act. They're not going to let that agenda go because they think they're going to make upwards of five quadrillion dollars on this.

Will Spencer (59:51)

I'm sorry,

five quadrillion dollars.

Courtenay Turner (59:53)

I know

it's a number you can't fathom, nobody can. So, yeah, you might as well just say infinite. It's just infinity amount of dollars. Yeah. They want to quantify like the air we breathe, the water we drink, everything. Yeah. So this is all going to be done through carbon sequestration and the carbon taxing and the...

Will Spencer (59:55)

Yes. ⁓

⁓

Courtenay Turner (1:00:16)

know, offsets, carbon offsets, this is all under the, you know, the climate lie, which it really is a lie. They've admitted it. I have it in my, the preview of my book, The Hegel's Dialectic, Anostic, Jacob's Ladder, and Machinery of Control. The preview is up on my sub stack. And yeah, I'm going to be pausing from some recording. I'll still be uploading episodes next month, but I'm going try and get this book finished so I can put out, you know, the pre-order and publish it.

But I have several more chapters outlined that I'll finish it up. But right now I have a preview up on my sub-staff and in there I have the quote from the Club of Rome in their global revolution document, which was 1992, saying that their limits to growth document, which was 20 years earlier, I'll probably even find it for you, but in 20 years earlier, they said that they needed to find a common enemy for man to rally behind. And so they decided it was like,

you know, the fact that we pollute all the air and the water and, you know, we are the problem essentially. That's why we're the carbon they want to reduce. And they, so they essentially said that the, you know, the enemy, if they found a common enemy, they could get everybody on board with this narrative. And what did they decide the common enemy is? They say like the enemy of humanity is man himself. It says this is why we're the carbon they want to reduce. So.

They've admitted that this is a complete lie and it's a farce, but it is a great narrative. It's very compelling for especially people who are very susceptible ⁓ to, you more emotional kind of manipulation and want to be perceived as compassionate. This is what I call the compassion trap. This is where, you know, they weaponize compassion, which I think is one of the, they're exploiting what I think are one of the best attributes of human nature.

and weaponizing against humans themselves. But this is also part of how identity politics works, right? Because you think about compassion typically as being a more feminine trait, not to say that men aren't compassionate, they definitely are, ⁓ obviously, but you think of it as being a more feminine trait. Why? This is biological because women need to be attuned to their offspring. They have to have compassion for their offspring. Compassion is...

And I talk about this in the book as well, the origins of the word empathy and how empathy is the first stage of compassion, right? This idea of being able to feel somebody else's feelings without having the direct experience. So it's not sympathy, it's being able to relate to it. But compassion takes it a step further and now says that you want to alleviate that person's suffering. And so of course that's what you'd want to do for your offspring. But what happens now if you are a threat to that woman's offspring?

Will Spencer (1:02:47)

Mm-hmm.

Courtenay Turner (1:03:01)

they're not compassionate to you, they become vicious mama bears. And that is what we see with all of these group identity politics, right? You have these, you know, Gnostic elect leaders who are, you know, defending their group and then the groups start fighting against each other. And this is much more effective because it's much easier to get groups to fight against each other than to get individuals. Again, you know, when you're looking at somebody in the eye and you see their humanity, it's much harder.

not say that people don't fight one-on-one, they do, but it's much easier to get groups to create warring factions. ⁓ But yeah, so they're using this narrative of the climate agenda to rally people behind this huge, ⁓ what they think is going to be a huge money-making, to commodify the air we breathe. So it was the ⁓ SEC who partnered with the IEG, which was the Intrinsic Exchange Group.

to put a proposal up on the New York Stock Exchange to create a new classification of companies called natural asset companies. And part of that would have been the part of the vehicle to be able to usurp the land. It's part of a 30 by 30 agenda, which Biden renamed the America the Beautiful, because, you know, that sounds much nicer. And so, but through the conservation easements, they have something called ecosystem management services, which ⁓ you would be able to, they would outsource.

Will Spencer (1:04:15)

course.

Courtenay Turner (1:04:25)

the control over the land that you actually own. And so all this to say, my state, that was a big initiative. These are conservation easements and my governor was very much on board with these and still pushing them today. I had one of the legislators who brought me in to do a presentation to the legislators and he blames me for being kicked out. He said that it was very effective. They were pushing back. And I told him that that was not my goal.

and I felt terrible about it and I thought he was kind of kidding at first but I was his second guest on his podcast. He actually brought it up twice in the podcast saying that I was the reason that he was voted out. So it's that one and then the school choice issue and the school choice issue is of course this is a long running agenda. This goes all the way back several several decades. I would actually argue it's about you know it's over a century old with the St. Louis Hegelians and the

know, Prussian model of education that was exported to United States after the Battle of Genna in 1807. You they lost the battle and they decided they lost the battle because the soldiers were bailed because they were critical thinkers and so they had to create a system that bred for compliance and obedience and, you know, bred out all the critical thinkers. And so that is what they have been working very diligently to deliberately dumb down America. But Charlotte Iserbeet was a whistleblower under

the Reagan administration on the BEST project. And the BEST project was tied to exactly what we were talking about earlier with all the tech ed, right? And so she was kind of blowing the whistle on all of that. Her father and her ⁓ grandfather were both members of Skull and Bones. I think she got away with a little bit more ⁓ in terms of her whistle blowing than she might have otherwise, but she also had all the receipts and she was very instrumental.

in helping Anthony Sutton with his research on how the order controls education. She gave him like the actual black book kind of logs. And ⁓ so this agenda has been in the works for so long and through her books, and I recommend people getting the On A Bridge. It's very long, very thick, huge book, The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, along with John Taylor Gatto, who was a very vocal.

Will Spencer (1:06:41)

Mm-hmm.

Courtenay Turner (1:06:43)

⁓ against compulsory education. think he's absolutely right. There's nothing in the Constitution that stipulates compulsory education. Our founding fathers did not have formal education, most of them. And I would argue most of them were far more erudite than people we see in higher education today. So that's my own opinion. And yeah, I don't think it was very favorable when I said that. So, but I think it's kind of true.

But yeah, in her book, she goes through how they were going to push this school choice narrative through the political right and that that's where they would get it done. And I think that's what we're obviously seeing that today. I Trump has now, you know, national, he's advocating for it nationally, which is blatantly unconstitutional.

Will Spencer (1:07:28)

School choice program sounds like a euphemism for not having a choice. So maybe you can unpack the school choice program for those who haven't heard of it.

Courtenay Turner (1:07:31)

you

Yeah, yeah, it's

a very clever marketing. I always say we should all have their marketing team because we would be so successful. We'd have these great brands. ⁓ I want the marketing team for the UN ⁓ personally.

But yeah, I don't know what you have to sign to get that. So maybe I don't want it, but I'm just saying they're pretty good at it. yeah. But yeah, choice, who's going to argue against choice? It sounds wonderful, but it's government choice. And now I fell for it when I was in sixth grade, I actually created a board to start school choice because I was, ⁓ I went to a very small, I grew up in a very small town that didn't have its own high school. And so the town next to me had a high school, but it was not.

Will Spencer (1:07:56)

It's expensive, it's pretty expensive.

Courtenay Turner (1:08:18)

You know, the school was not a quality school in any regard. Like, it wasn't safe, it wasn't a good education. And I had friends who went to these other schools that were actually in closer proximity, geographically. And so I didn't understand, you know, I was 12 years old. I kept saying to my parents, can't I just go to one of those schools? That doesn't make sense. And so I started a board ⁓ to, you know, advocate for school choice. And six years later, they implemented it. I, of course, knew nothing about the long range agenda at the time.

And I thought this was just, why can't my parents decide where I go to school? If it's the same distance, they should have some sort of a voucher. They're paying taxes. This makes sense. But I had no idea that this is really an agenda to create, put every school under government control. That is to make all schools government run. This is a execution of really Alice Bailey's plan that she lays out in her book, Education in the New Age.

This was the inspiration for Robert Mueller, who was, for 40 years, worked for the UN. He was secretary general of the UN. And he wrote his 2,000 ideas. I think it became 4,000 ideas. He fancied himself quite the visionary. ⁓ Yes, he studied under Hugh Thant, who was a direct disciple of Théor Deschardins. And ⁓ he very much ⁓ wanted to execute those visions of helping to create the snow sphere.

Will Spencer (1:09:29)

I guess so.

Courtenay Turner (1:09:44)

But the education system that he designed was called the World Core Curriculum, and this was directly predicated on the works of Alice Bailey, who was a disciple of Madame Blavatsky, who was one of the original members of the Theosophical Society. ⁓ she was the founder of Lucius Trusts, which of course, know, arcane schools, the Goodwill Servers, yeah, and triangles.

And this is, Lucia's Trust is a direct consultancy of the UN to this day. It was originally called Lucifer Publishing. ⁓ Also, Madame Blavosky had a magazine called Lucifer Magazine as well. So, you know, it gives you little indication of where their views were. ⁓ But yeah, she had laid out in her education, new age, what the plans for education would be to create a planetics, which is what Robert Mueller outlines.

in his 2000 ideas. He keeps talking, I think it ended up being 4000, but I don't remember. It was a lot of ideas, and it's pretty long. But I think it started as 2000, and he says the word planetics over and over again, and this is predicated on Alice Bailey's vision. So he creates the World Corps curriculum, which is designed to create global citizens, and ⁓ then, of course, from there, the United States developed what is called Common Core.

And Charlotte is a beat calls it communist core. think it's much more aptly put. But yeah, this is the vision, you know, to execute that in the United States. And what we're seeing now with, ⁓ you know, of course, to sell SEL under the Fetzer Institute, all the social emotional learning stuff and all the tech ed stuff. This is all, ⁓ you know, just carrying out literally Bailey's plan to create a ⁓ one world religion and one world governance.

Will Spencer (1:11:32)

I literally just heard about social emotional learning and the roots of that like two weeks ago and someone sent me a sub stack article because I spent 20 years in the new age. So they're talking about John Cabot Zinn and Thich Nhat Hanh and all this. I'm like, this is the foundations of social, it's explicit. These are the foundations of social emotional learning like Buddhism, Eastern mysticism is in their own writings, the foundation of this thing. I was like, wait, what?

Courtenay Turner (1:11:38)

⁓ really?

and.

Mm-hmm.

So if I were an Eastern mysticist, I'd be very upset with the New Agers and the Theosophists. No, I would because they bushered it, they cherry-pick. So it's a syncretic religion, right? Although they it's not a religion, they say it's a perennial philosophy. Aldous Huxley has a book on the perennial philosophy. That's what Madame Blavatsky herself says. But what they do is they take elements that are...

that advance their agenda and their vision and they create a theosophical soup. And really it's a revamped kind of rebranding of neo-Platonism, I think is really a good way to look at it. But they incorporate a lot of aspects of Buddhism and Hinduism, but it doesn't maintain the integrity of either one of those. And that's not for me to tell people, oh, they should be a Buddhist or a Hindu. It's just, if I were...

like a Hindu or a Buddhist, I'd actually be very offended because they've appropriated, that's actually what they've done, because it's syncretic, it's not authentic.

Will Spencer (1:13:01)

Yes.

Correct, yeah, the New Age harvests.

I have a big two hour presentation, two and a half hour presentation I did about this, started 2023 that I should probably do more with, but they harvest teachings out of various world traditions and syncretize them into this big anti-Christ religion. mean, like that's really what it is because it expels biblical Christianity. It has to, we can't digest it. And so, but what it does is, and then it hyper commercializes it. And so this began, you know, in the 1960s, the 1970s with the hippie generation and then

Courtenay Turner (1:13:08)

Mm-hmm.

Thanks.

Yes.

Will Spencer (1:13:37)

the

80s and the 90s, it became what we know recognizes the new age paired with personal development and massive expenditures of money to create inner peace and financial fulfillment, et cetera. You know, it's just essentially a prosperity gospel using your mind as the as a tool for manifesting it. And it's very seductive. And it seems like it's globalist in nature. And, but look, we've got some Buddhism stuff and we've got some Native American stuff. And aren't we so progressive? And it's like you just end up getting lost in a swamp. And that would be bad enough, except for

for the influences that you just talked about of where this has fed into politics, economics, culture, education, geopolitics. And I don't think people recognize the gravity of just how significant the new age, and it's not even a great term, but how significant this theosophical influence has been on world and American culture today.

Courtenay Turner (1:14:29)

Yeah, well, absolutely. And I say, mean, the new age is kind of the rebranding. And a lot of that came out of ⁓ this was, as you said, it was like the 70s, 80s. And a lot of that came from Stanford Research Institute. They did the changing images of man document. So this was like, ⁓ yeah, like Lewis Harmon and ⁓ who else was involved, you know, based on Joseph Campbell and. ⁓

Will Spencer (1:14:46)

⁓ no, I haven't heard of this.

Courtenay Turner (1:14:56)

So they, and he was, Harmon was the president of the Noetic, ⁓ the IONS, right? Institute for Noetic Sciences for two decades. so Willis Harmon and ⁓ W.O. Markley, who did a lot of work on like remote viewing. And so, you know, then of course CIA did their project Stargate, but they did this changing images man document and it was a very long, I actually had the printout of it because to buy the book, this is another one of those really expensive books.

don't have that kind of budget if anybody wants to support, know, by all means. But yeah, so it's very expensive, but you can get the PDF online. And this is ⁓ where they were doing these studies about changing the image of man, so man's perception of man's self. So essentially changing the consciousness of man. And they popularized those ideas in a book called The Aquarian Conspiracy. Willis Harmon's secretary was Marilyn Ferguson.

Will Spencer (1:15:49)

Yes.

Courtenay Turner (1:15:54)

and he used her name as a pseudonym for this book to popularize the ideas. so that was, but then really what we have now ⁓ is the New Thought Movement. And the New Thought Movement is just another iteration of the New Age, but with a stronger focus on mentalism, which is the first principle of Hermeticism. So, I mean, all of this really does go back to the ancient mystery schools. And now we've got, and I just did a video on this, and I really wish more people would kind of pay attention to it. I know...

This is one of the problems, like I've always been kind of Cassandra. So, you know, nobody really likes Cassandra and nobody really pays attention to Cassandra. But I did a video and I was so exhausted, so I know it was not my most eloquent work and I will definitely do a write-up on it, but I have not had time yet. But on the Hegelian dialectic between game B and the Dark, the Dark Enlightenment, because this is really what I perceive as how, especially in the West, they're trying to

foment the ⁓ technological immunization of the eschaton so we can invent towards the singularity and They're both movements are really predicated on various elements of these ancient mysteries So they just have different flavors. So, you know, whether it's chocolate or vanilla They're they're still both ice cream and they're both still part of the dialectical churn that is spiraling us towards the singularity The Omega point is singularity

Will Spencer (1:16:57)

Okay. Yep.

Courtenay Turner (1:17:20)

and creating the Noosphere. They're doing it, they have different visions of how to get there, but ultimately that's what both of them are doing and they are both very much, so of course the Game Bee movement, a lot of them are more theosophical in their rhetoric. You know, there was a split between that movement where, and Jim Rutt talks about this often, where you know some of the, them were a little too woo-woo as his words and then others were more kind of hard scientists, they were

systems theorists, they were complexity theorists. He was at the Santa Fe Institute chairman for over 10 years. so, ⁓ that's what he said, but they did come back together ⁓ and ⁓ regroup. And so they speak in more theosophical language, at least appealing to, I call it really like they're the leftist of this ⁓ technological immunization of the eschaton. And then we've got the dark enlightenment who are operating through the right as a vehicle.

And of course, you know, we see this, is like the ⁓ Elon Musk and the Peter Thiel and that whole crew. But ultimately they're using principles of this ancient mystery religion and the ⁓ Cosmocratic Humanists, who a lot of them are tied in with this Game B stuff, there, and you can find Cosmocratic Humanism, it's a first values, first principles on evolving perennialism.

and ⁓ the 42 Prince Propositions on Cosmocratic Humanism. And you can find this at theofficeofthefuture.com because, you know, the best way to predict the future is to plan it. And so of course they are futurists. And ⁓ this is David Temple. And I've now learned that it was a homage to him. But the three of them, they used him as a pen name, but the three of them comprise of David Temple. He wasn't actually involved.

It's Mark Gaffney, Zach Stein, who was just inducted to Club of Rome last year, Kenneth Wilber, of course, the integralist, ⁓ who based his whole theory of altitudes ⁓ on the Claire Graves spiral dynamics and the chakra system. And I did a whole thread on that. But there...

But they talk about this also, right? They're constantly talking about, like even Mark Gaffney is doing his literally reviving the Mystery School. He has a whole, you know, Eros Mystery School, he calls it. He says that Eros is not about sex. It's a radical love affair with the universe. ⁓ But, you know, of course we had, what do we have? Eros and Thanatos, this was Freud, and then we have Eros and Civilization.

Herbert Marcuse, and now we've got, ⁓ you know, Eros Mystery Schools, and he talks to Arby Marcus, who is helping him promote this, and he says, ⁓ yep, and he says, yeah, we have to revive the mysteries, and we have to reinvigorate the ancient mystery. So yes, Eros Mystery Schools. So basically, it all goes back, and so it really is, I mean, people say it's a spiritual battle. I don't think they've realized there's really, regardless of someone's worldview,

Will Spencer (1:19:57)

Mercuse.

Courtenay Turner (1:20:25)

there is actually an intellectual battle that's operating through, it's epistemological, that is operating through the spiritual battle. ultimately, the reason I call it a technological immunization of the eschaton is because where I see it going is that ⁓ there are the people who acknowledge that regardless of your belief system, they acknowledge that there is a divine benevolent creator.

Will Spencer (1:20:34)

Yes.

Courtenay Turner (1:20:52)

that we are not that and that he has endowed us with this beautiful gift of free will and free will is not an end. Free will is a vehicle, it's a conduit. It allows us the potential for virtue and morality that we have to exercise it and then there are the people who ⁓ want to, you know, they want to obtain radical freedom and radical freedom is an end and this is, you know, very much ⁓ revealed in, ⁓ I think, ⁓ like Crowley and Thelema, Do With Thou Will,

or Nietzschean will to power. This is where we see these types of ideas manifest, this kind of radical free will. But it's very confusing to people, because people hear freedom, and they think that you're talking about free will, but they're not the same, at least from what I can discern. And so you've got this kind of battle, and then you've got the people who, you know, they operate their lives, they live in the hopes that they will exercise their free will, and ⁓ that they will, that their morale, they will...

attain some sort of virtue morality that will give them, grant them entrance to heaven, right? Whatever their beliefs are, but that they will, that heaven is not here on earth. At least we can all, at least they agree on that much. And then there are people who want to bring heaven on earth. And they can't do that in any means except for synthetic. And this is why we are now seeing these ⁓ transhuman agendas, the bio digital convergence, the...

the technocracy that they're trying to foment and ultimately achieve a singularity, which, you know, then you will have this freedom, the liberation, but it is a liberation of the collective. It is not individual freedom. It is a collective ends where they become co-creators, so essentially they become God.

Will Spencer (1:22:40)

I hope everyone can hear what I'm talking about when I say that you've mastered this material because, I mean, you just, from my perspective, you just navigated through three or four completely disparate fields rather seamlessly to show the ways that they tie together. So we went from social-emotional learning to cosmo-humanism to trans you, a cosmo-

Courtenay Turner (1:22:53)

No.

Will Spencer (1:23:02)

Cosmoerotic humanism, which I heard about from Aubrey Marcus and which infuriates me. And then you navigate from there into transhumanism. And the thing is, I think anyone standing in a particular position would look at these as being separate movements.

would say like, my gosh, I look over here and I see the transhumanists and I look over here and I see the new age romance hippies or whatever. And I look over here and I see psychedelics and I look that way and I see school choice, right, or whatever, medical freedom. And the perspective is like, ⁓ these must all be separate, or not medical freedom, what is opposed to medical freedom, medical tyranny, I suppose. These would all be separate, but ultimately they're all faces of the same thing. And they're all linked and they have philosophical and in a sense theological and spiritual

Courtenay Turner (1:23:16)

Mm.

you

Will Spencer (1:23:46)

spiritual

foundations that they share and its different fronts in a war against humanity to put them into a position of enslavement.

to a two-tier, ultimately it's kind of communist in a way, but even that doesn't quite capture it. It's a two-tier occultic, esoteric communist society, right? And you say that to people, or I say that to people and they're like, whatever, you know, but then it's like, hey, if you look at each individual one of these strands and you just start pulling, you'll see that they all tie together.

Courtenay Turner (1:24:20)

They all tie together. Yeah. I don't know. ⁓ I'm a pattern recognizer, so it's very hard for me not to see dots connect. I often have to work really hard to check myself. Like, OK, that might not be connected to that. And this is why I do read the primary sources, because I know that I tend to see connections. That's just how my brain works.

Will Spencer (1:24:30)

Sure.

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (1:24:44)

But unfortunately, it's like, doesn't matter which end I come in through. I'm like, wait, it is connected. And oftentimes even the people start to be connected. That's what I find. You know, I mean, it's like I start diving into, whether it be the education field, whether it's the medical stuff, whether it's ⁓ the field of psychology, which it's got esoteric roots, literally. It is born out of esotericism.

Will Spencer (1:25:04)

Mm-hmm.

Courtenay Turner (1:25:10)

⁓ You've got the whole ⁓ trajectory of especially continental philosophy, but really all of a Western philosophy. I mean, there are some exceptions, but yeah. And then the technology, the whole industry, all of these things are interwoven. That doesn't mean that there are never battles within. I want to be very clear about that. I absolutely believe there is free will, there's free agency. Humans can absolutely be disruptors. That is what...

Will Spencer (1:25:30)

Of course.

Courtenay Turner (1:25:37)

That's the reason I do what I do is I hope to inform, inspire, and empower people to exercise their free will so they can have the information and then, you you never know who's going to be a disruptor and derail the plan. In fact, the UN is a great example of that because they talk about, you know, they did their Summit of the Future last year and they kept saying how far behind their 2075 agenda that they are and they kept pointing.

Will Spencer (1:25:59)

Praise God.

Courtenay Turner (1:26:01)

Yeah, They kept pointing to the United States as the big thorn in their side, why they're so far behind. I'm like, yes, let's keep going. So, yeah.

Will Spencer (1:26:09)

⁓ Yeah, mean,

in a sense, I actually have a book about this that's sitting on my shelf that I've been meaning to read. I think it's called In Pursuit of the Metaverse. And I can't remember the name of the author, but Carl Teichrib and I talked about it. believe you know Carl, at least you know of his. Yeah, yeah, he's a great man. And so we talked about reading that together. But ultimately, all these different threads together point to the attempt to create a new Tower of Babel.

Courtenay Turner (1:26:24)

He's awesome. I love him.

Will Spencer (1:26:35)

I mean, that's really what it is, like a totalizing view of how to control an olive humanity. Go ahead.

Courtenay Turner (1:26:36)

Yeah.

I, yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to you off. I don't like to have this conversation because most people don't have like the, you know, the historical and the full context to really engage with it. ⁓ Like I almost will never even use the term Zionism because most people don't know that the origins was literally intended to create a dialectic. But when people talk about, you know, the, they call it the greater Israel plan, I'm like, I actually think it's the greater Babylonian agenda.

which has nothing to do with Jews. Like nothing. If anything, they want to eradicate Jews. And this was actually, I just posted a big thread on this with all the receipts from Alice Bailey herself, who talks about in order to create the one world religion, one of their big problems is the Jews. have to get rid of traditional Judaism. And she uses the term Orthodox, but you have to understand that, you know, in Greek Orthodox means correct thinking. So she's really saying like the religious Jews, you have to get rid of them.

They welcome, Madame Blavatsky says the same thing. She says that, ⁓ she says both Christianity and Judaism are diametrically opposed to theosophy. And she says that really any monotheistic religion, so essentially Islam is as well, although they seem to be much more welcoming of that. Islamic order is actually the large voting block of the UN who is very much advancing the theosophical agenda.

⁓ But I think a lot of that has been subverted as well. know, all have, there's been institutional capture from every angle possible. yeah.

Will Spencer (1:28:13)

I

really appreciate you saying that because obviously it's a topic that's up on X literally today, particularly in Christian circles. But I know it's larger than that. And Spencer Smith, don't know if you ever encountered any of his work. He did an excellent series of documentaries called Third Adam, just really substantial work. He's been on my podcast a couple of times, very, very charismatic and distinctive guy. And he pointed out on on X, I guess it would have been a couple of months ago. He said the end result of every conspiracy awakening

Courtenay Turner (1:28:22)

Thank ⁓

Okay.

Will Spencer (1:28:43)

a hatred for Israel. And when he posted that, I remembered my time in the New Age world and I got to thinking about the things that people were saying. And I realized that he was right, that he was right. But what I didn't realize and what you just pointed out is that this is actually in Alice Bailey's writings. And I was aware that Helena Blavatsky had called Christianity, and this is her words, quote, very pernicious to the aims of the of theosophy. She said the chiefs of the order regard

Christianity is a very pernicious threat, meaning essentially our chief enemy in Christianity. But to hear that Alice Bailey also points out that Orthodox religious believing Jews need to be eradicated as well validates Spencer Smith's point.

Courtenay Turner (1:29:28)

one

of the first missions. Yeah.

Will Spencer (1:29:30)

Yeah, and so especially because the monotheistic religions, particularly embodied in sacred scripture, like this is the definitive text, it can't be modified with any outside peripheral source. there's no special knowledge inherent in a priest class. That's what you need to undermine scripture. But if you say, sorry, it's just all just in the book and you just got to read the book, they hate that because then you don't have the...

Sar Moon Brotherhood as GI Girgif was pursuing or the Chiefs of the Order of the Theosophical Society or Jawal Kuhl who I think was Alice Bailey's. Yeah, exactly.

Courtenay Turner (1:30:06)

That was Alice Bailey's master, Helped her

write 24 books, yeah. And Koutoumi helped Madame Blavatsky. But yeah, the other problem that Alice Bailey talks about is, ⁓ particularly with Judaism, is the separateness. And this is really the problem, I think, with all the monotheistic religions, yeah. Because this goes back to the ancient Greeks. They would call it the undifferentiated, all theosophists will say that we come from source.

and that the mission of the human experience is to return back to source, right? This is the divine spark, everything is one. And this is what they're trying to create with the membrane of the internet, right? I always show on my videos Bruce Lifton, the evolutionary leader, he talks, have you seen this? Where he of course uses the spiral because it's spiral dynamics.

Will Spencer (1:30:48)

Mm-hmm.

Courtenay Turner (1:30:54)

And he, just like helium dialectical spiral, but he talks about how, you know, we started off as amoeba and amoeba's intelligence came from the membrane. This is where they collect information and then we become multicellular organisms. And the reason they're more intelligent is because they have more membrane. then humans, they're so complex. have, you know, so much surface area of membrane. That's why we're so intelligent is what he said. And so he said, but now we have the opportunity to co-create or go extinct. And he said, we could co-create.

the superorganism of humanity. And he said, what did he say is going to be the membrane of the superorganism of humanity? This is the internet, of course, right? So this is, but when you talk about theosophy, it's really going back to what the ancient Greeks said with the undifferentiated all, that the one is better than the many. And so their whole goal is to eviscerate any kind of boundaries or differentiation or distinction, to blend everything. This is why we have all the

the gender blending and you know nobody can have their own religion it's all part of one it's a brotherhood universal brotherhood right everybody believes the same thing or it's a mishmash of a bunch of things put pushed together ⁓ but yeah they don't want any distinctions because everything has to be part of the one this is how we achieve the noosphere and the collective intelligence which is the game b term or ⁓ you know the singularity essentially

Will Spencer (1:32:20)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I don't think people really understand just what a powerful religion, whatever you want to call it, philosophy, theological system, the all is one and all is God mindset is whether you're a pantheist, all is God or panentheus that all is inside God. know, that sing that single idea is what sets it up. As Dr. Peter Jones says, one ism sets it up. It sets itself up in opposition to two ism, which is the which is the Judeo-Christian tradition, literally the

Courtenay Turner (1:32:29)

Yeah.

Will Spencer (1:32:51)

Judeo-Christian tradition as embodied in the Bible. In the beginning, God created, right? Like it is not of him. It's a completely separate thing created out of nothing. And that eternal separateness drives the theosophists nuts. And when you have an objective transcendent standard that can't be harmonized or synthesized, they just have to spit it out. And so that's why all the efforts to undermine like literally like the Judeo-Christian values, and this is a

Courtenay Turner (1:32:54)

you.

yeah.

Will Spencer (1:33:21)

the

best of the best of the Jewish tradition has embodied in the Old Testament and as well as faithful biblical Christianity, right? It's not for nothing that the Chicago World Parliament of Religions, I believe it was in 1893, you know, where Swami Vivekananda made his big famous Hindu, his big Hindu debut. The one religion that was not represented there was Bible believing Protestant Christianity.

Courtenay Turner (1:33:33)

18.

Will Spencer (1:33:44)

Right? And there's a reason for that because it can't be synchronized into the whole. They're trying, they're definitely trying from outside the faith and from inside it as well, but that's the only place to stand.

Courtenay Turner (1:33:53)

They are. They're...

Yeah, unfortunately they're having more success than ⁓ perhaps ⁓ would be nice to see, but yeah, it's definitely a challenge. Yeah, the World Parliament of Religions, which was revived a century later in 1993, they now have like the Ayahuasca religion present there. ⁓ Yeah.

Will Spencer (1:34:06)

Yep.

Don't get me started. Oh, you probably

don't know this, but I've done ayahuasca 15 times before coming to Christianity. So here on my left arm, this is an ayahuasca vine that I have tattooed on my left arm. Yes, I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting to go to war with these folks.

Courtenay Turner (1:34:30)

⁓ wow, okay.

I got so much pushback for talking about psychedelics. Yeah, so last year, it was last year or the year before, but suddenly there was like this push everywhere. You were seeing like mushrooms on children's clothing. I'm sorry, like furniture, mushroom furniture. Like this is not fashion. I don't know. This is so obviously propaganda.

Will Spencer (1:34:43)

yes. ⁓

Courtenay Turner (1:35:03)

So I was trying to point this out to people, but what you also saw simultaneously was they started talking about how all of these articles and studies had been done on SSRIs proving that they did not do what they had purported to do. In fact, the results were very much the opposite, that they actually caused things like suicidal ideation and depression and anxiety and all the things that they were claiming to get rid of.

So they, I'm careful not to use the c-word, but you they were, you know, all the things they were claiming to do, they were actually doing the opposite. Okay. So the, all of these studies, the media was doing a huge blitz on this while simultaneously pushing like all this fashion with mushrooms and talking about microdosing psilocybin and, and like, why are they putting these studies out now? So first of all, these studies about the SSRIs, we knew this back in the nineties.

Like they had already proven in the 90s that the SSRIs cause suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, all the things that they're supposed to fix, they cause. We knew this back then. So, but suddenly this is news and that's very strange to me. But now what do they have? They have all this microdosing and this ketamine therapy that they're claiming is your new fix. And what do we also see simultaneously? We see people in the technocrat arena

who are working on synthetic variations of these things. So we've got Elon Musk with his ketamine. ⁓ We've got Peter Thiel in the cannabis and the psilocybin. ⁓ They're working on therapies, but they're synthetic. so now Big Pharma is, or at least the technocrats, at least Silicon Valley, but I'm pretty sure Big Pharma as well, ⁓ is involved in these new replacements.

for the SSRI therapies. But yeah, it just feels like we needed Orwell's 1984 in order to usher in Huxley's Brave New World.

Will Spencer (1:37:09)

Right. And, ⁓ and, ⁓ Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. I think that that's an unappreciated masterpiece that shows like the, big vid screens and the dumbing down and all of that, you know, and the burning of books. Like I think people, and very rightfully so talk about brave new world and Soma and that sort of proto socialist wokeness. Yes. And, then you read, but then read Fahrenheit 451. It's like, that's coming too. And you're absolutely right about psychedelics.

Courtenay Turner (1:37:14)

yeah. I agree.

loving your served food. Yes.

Will Spencer (1:37:39)

I am, I push back so hard on those and, what's, what's coming. And first of all, RFK junior, at least before the election seemed like he was prepared to be the tip of the spear for normalizing psychedelics into American culture. Because when he listed his top 10 or so priorities, it was just a, it didn't seem to be an ordered list. was just in paragraph form. But the first thing that he listed was psychedelics and the, and the pitch will be.

Courtenay Turner (1:38:06)

Mm-hmm.

Will Spencer (1:38:08)

SSRIs, big pharma drugs have made people miserable and there's all these studies that show just one psychedelic trip does what years of therapy can't. And so that will first be pushed on the veteran community, like look at all these veterans that have been helped from their PTSD. That means everyone must do it all the time. And then when you see the legalization, particularly of DMT and stuff like that in liberal states, it's crazy.

And this is all coming and I think it presents not only a medical challenge and a political challenge, but a theological challenge that I just don't know that people are prepared to answer. I don't know that they have an answer for like, well, what's the theological response to trauma? Well, it's not taking drugs.

Courtenay Turner (1:38:55)

Well, and not only that, but if you look back at the ancient mystery religions, what they all do in order, so in order to create the transcendent experience, they either had some sort of a drug ritual that was usually psychedelic to create so that you could be one with the oneness, right? ⁓ Open up all the boundaries and, you know, do away, dissolve all the boundaries ⁓ or some sort of trauma induction.

Will Spencer (1:38:59)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (1:39:23)

And oftentimes, now I'm not denying that nobody has ever had a good experience or benefited, there's always those exceptions, but oftentimes they go hand in hand. A lot of people have bad trips. A lot of people, not only do they experience that dissolution of all boundaries, but they actually have major traumatic events or brings up trauma for them.

Will Spencer (1:39:36)

Yes.

Yes.

Courtenay Turner (1:39:46)

So I think that these are, but in the ancient religions, most of the initiations involve this. So it's part of the trauma bonding experience and it's also part of trauma based mind control.

Will Spencer (1:39:58)

Yes. Yeah. I'm glad

that you pointed that out and you, it's very frequently that, psychedelics are, are paired with orgiastic rights. Like that's, that's just a thing, you know, sex, drugs and rock and roll. Like that wasn't invented in the 1960s and all of this stuff is, being hyper normalized. And so, you know, so right now you have this, ⁓

Courtenay Turner (1:40:06)

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Will Spencer (1:40:19)

anti-Zionism, anti-Semitism that's having a brief resurgence and I don't know ultimately how far it will go especially because no one in the Trump administration agrees with it so there's no doorways in for that so I think it'll eventually run headlong into a brick wall and then all the guys who are into that will fall off a cliff and that'll go... Okay.

Courtenay Turner (1:40:34)

⁓ I don't know about that. think that the fact

that yeah, I unfortunately I hope you're right I would like to do more than to be wrong on this, but I think it's gonna create a dialectic Yeah, so I think you're gonna have that resistance and people are going to argue it that you know that's creating kind of ⁓ a favored kind of class or I And you know, they're gonna argue that's creating more censorship. I'm already hearing these narratives

Will Spencer (1:40:41)

Yeah.

please go ahead.

Courtenay Turner (1:41:03)

So they're really – I think the fact that they're pushing back on it, the Trump administration is actually creating this dialectical term. I'm not – this is not saying that I think we should support anti-Semitism. I obviously don't think that. That is not what I'm saying. But I do see a potential dialectical clash and a fomenting of some of these tensions. It's – I'm concerned about it. I really hope it doesn't continue to escalate.

Will Spencer (1:41:14)

Sure, of course.

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (1:41:29)

We're seeing it online, but I've actually experienced quite a bit of it like in person. So it's a, yeah. So it's, it's not, ⁓ well, I mean, yeah, there's just, I don't really know how to, I know firsthand, let me not make it quite so personal, but, I won't use names or anything, but, I know firsthand somebody I know's daughter, ⁓ was bullied so bad. They like beat her head, like bashed her head. ⁓ and she couldn't go back to school.

Will Spencer (1:41:36)

Say more about that.

Courtenay Turner (1:41:58)

And it was just because she was Jewish, like nothing else like instigated at all. I have seen, you know, people pull out weapons, like just because somebody was Jewish. Yeah, it's getting to the point where it's becoming. So this is what I'm talking about, about these, unfortunately, these algorithmic cybernetic feedback loops, we think that they're relegated to online, but what happens is a lot of people become.

One, you become a bit desensitized to what it would be like to have confrontation in person. You also have a false sense of reality because you've been so myopically seeped in a silo. So you think that that is the world and that is where everybody lives. But you're not seeing other people's silo. You're not seeing their algorithmic feed. So you go out into the world and you engage thinking that this is how everybody is conducting.

And so you've got a lot of people, a lot of people are, you know, the social skills have deteriorated a little bit. Let me say that ⁓ kind of a euphemistically.

Will Spencer (1:43:06)

So that's very interesting because I think you're probably right. I definitely believe you. I don't mean to say that I don't. In my circles, I'm seeing something else. I'm seeing like the fomenting of the racial tensions, right? that's a, my God, yeah. But that's a validation of your point.

Courtenay Turner (1:43:11)

Sure.

that's nothing. ⁓

Anybody that can get

people to fight against each other, they're happy. So I always say, that's what I always say, I say that, ⁓ you know, like in Christianity, there's a trinity, I don't need to explain that to you or your audience, obviously. ⁓ But I always say that the, even all the devil, the, you know, the opposition, whatever, whatever makes sense for you and your faith. ⁓ But I always say the devil has a trinity that he worships, and it's the triple D's, you know, the devil, the triple D's. And ⁓ it is that the first one is deception.

Will Spencer (1:43:28)

Alright.

Courtenay Turner (1:43:54)

Right, so distort, manipulate, deceive, right, he's master trickster, deceiver. And this is a way of ⁓ convincing you of lies or, you know, misrepresenting things. And then the second one is divide and conquer or divide and rule. And so this is, of course, the dialectical games. And so we see so much of this, all the division and the more they can get people divided. And I think this is a huge part of why all the...

The transgender stuff, I never focused too much on it because it's really a pipeline to transhumanism. But ultimately, the war between the men and the women is the biggest faction that you can get to fight against each other. When they're supposed to be like simpatico. I mean, they were made for each other. ⁓ But you can get them fighting each other, and now you've got the two biggest groups fighting each other.

Will Spencer (1:44:31)

Yes.

Courtenay Turner (1:44:42)

So he's very happy with that. And then of course the last one is destruction and I say this why they're a death cult because they can only destroy, they can't create. ⁓ And so yeah, but I think the division is very key.

Will Spencer (1:44:56)

Yeah, the scripture says the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

But Christ has come so that we might have life and have it abundantly. And so abundantly. so that, to your point, the enemy can only destroy things, can't actually create. ⁓ to see, Christianity is having a trendy moment. think the long-term effects of that ⁓ remain to be seen. I suppose I'm happier that people are exploring Christianity than not. Certainly it's been a huge blessing in my life. But I think, again, to speak to another set

Courtenay Turner (1:45:04)

minute.

Will Spencer (1:45:30)

silos, another set of dialectics, you have the authoritarians that are being to wrap themselves in Christian language and for a political end and not actually becoming regenerated believers, not actually becoming sanctified. And that's the thing that's just ripping apart my circles right now is you have brothers, like men, who are both, we'll call them both professing Christians, but one is going in a hyper-political authoritarian

Courtenay Turner (1:45:37)

Yes.

All right.

Will Spencer (1:46:00)

fascist direction and in many ways neo-nazi right going in that direction there's the other guys who are here like hey like that don't go that way it's like but we have to take America back from the evil it's like but like not like that and that's again the dialectic that's being set up by these silos do you think okay so when you say cybernetic

Courtenay Turner (1:46:02)

Mm-hmm.

Will Spencer (1:46:21)

Do you mean that there's, is this algorithmic, cybernetic, is there some sort of consciousness behind this? Or is just this, they just plug in numbers into the machine and the machine is just generating its output? Maybe both.

Courtenay Turner (1:46:21)

Mm-hmm.

Well, yeah, think it's a

code, right? So I think that it's when she's your consciousness, I mean, humans program code, right? So right now we don't have robots doing code just yet. But even if robots do code, they're just an amplification of the original code. So it still originates with the consciousness of that human who programmed it. So all of their biases and their worldview, you know, their

that's going to be somehow embedded in it and it gets amplified as it progresses, as the algorithm advances. So it's never without some sort of bias. But yeah, think that that's, do I think that there's sentience? No, and I don't actually think that there will ever be. That's my personal belief. I think there's a lot invested in convincing people that there's sentience. I've seen the messaging already, you know, saying that.

Will Spencer (1:47:19)

Okay.

Courtenay Turner (1:47:30)

It's already been achieved. But I think that the effect of getting people to buy into that narrative could potentially be just as precarious as if they were to really create sentience. I think that it could actually have very similar, if not the same result. So I'm concerned about that, but I don't think that it will actually achieve sentience. I think that that comes from a soul. I don't think that they could create machines with souls.

What they could do though is with the synthetic biology, they are creating things that can mimic humans and be quite deceptive. And that's, that has its own set of concerns.

Will Spencer (1:48:10)

So yeah,

was a whole, like Peter Thiel, I don't remember the guy's name, but Peter Thiel was informed by a philosopher or thinker or technologist who believes.

Courtenay Turner (1:48:20)

Well, he

was very influenced by Curtis Yarvin, but he was also very influenced by ⁓ Strauss. He did his whole Straussian moment, ⁓ who was actually, a lot of it was talking about Schmidt, but yeah, they're also influenced by Heidegger. So a lot of philosophers who have a very kind of a Gnostic worldview.

Will Spencer (1:48:24)

Yeah.

Courtenay Turner (1:48:44)

⁓ Heidegger was an existentialist and I get a lot of pushback when I say it's Gnostic. When I use the term, I'm not referring to the first century heretics of Christianity. I use the umbrella little g Gnosticism to incorporate a lot of these, ⁓ like the Hermetic and alchemical ⁓ types of worldviews. But essentially, they're buying into this narrative of being

trapped here on earth by an ignorant demiurge who has withheld knowledge from us. So the Gnostic, the term comes from gnosis. Gnosis in Greek is knowledge. So it's the divine knowledge. this is also theosophy has the same kind of, they believe through theurgy, which is the divine work, that they can achieve the gnosis and then become God. This is the common theme through all of these.

⁓ And so that's, yeah, that seems to be, but again, it's couched in a lot of Christianese is what I call it, just like theosophy when they talk about Christ consciousness. Very deceptive. A lot of Christians think that they're speaking their language. They say the Christ is returning, but they're very careful to say the Christ and it's not Jesus Christ. They're very clear about that. This is a world teacher. This is ⁓ Lord Maitreya. You know who's no different than Krishna or Buddha?

This is a world teacher that they believe is going to return. You could say some would say it's the anti-Christ, not, you know, they say the Christ. I think there's a lot of evidence to indicate that that's what they're talking about. There's a prayer that they do, you can find this on the Luscious Trust website, and at the end of it they talk about to ⁓ seal the door where evil dwells. And I'm like, wait, wait, which side? Where are we going here? They don't specify. ⁓

Will Spencer (1:50:37)

Right?

Courtenay Turner (1:50:41)

You know, they speak in esoteric language. They're very clear about that. That's what their arcane school is all about. You Blavatsky and ⁓ Bailey talk about how this is specifically ⁓ material for those who are spiritually evolved and familiar with the esoteric. And I think that that's what a lot of philosophers did as well. So my thesis for the book is Hegel's dialectic and Gnostic Jacob's ladder.

is that he was speaking, he talks about the rational absolute. This sounds scientific, right? It's rational, logical, but he makes it very clear that rational is synonymous with speculative. And of course I'm interpreting in English, I don't read German, so those who speak German can correct me if you wish. But he says that speculative is no different than mystical. So I do believe that he's speaking a Soppian language.

which is signaling to those who are initiated to understand that this is a blueprint. That's why I call it a machinery of control. And he just used him as an example, because he very much influenced, you know, Curtis Yarvin and the dark enlightenment and a lot of these thinkers that we're seeing through some of the quote unquote right wing technocratic arm. ⁓ he, ⁓ so Hegel ⁓ talks about this, ⁓

Sorry, I totally lost my train of thought. Where was I going?

Will Spencer (1:52:05)

You're talking about Curtis Yarvin. We started out talking about Peter Thiel and Dark Enlightenment and sort of some of the, you're absolutely right that he's been influenced by all of those. And I was going to mention also that ⁓ there is a thinker who had influenced Peter Thiel that was talking about how through, can meme the singularity into existence, that by gathering collective consciousness in a particular direction, like you get everyone anticipating the arrival of the singularity,

that will summon the singularity into existence and that we're actually watching is something that is propagating like backwards in time, like our conscious intention in this moment will alter the past to make the singularity possible in a supposed future.

Courtenay Turner (1:52:53)

this, are

we talking about Ray Kurzweil? mean, I don't, it's sound.

Will Spencer (1:52:56)

No, it's

not. It's someone else. it's in that same vein. This idea, gosh, it's not. And it's not Red Angel Rard either. ⁓ It was some other thinker that I'd never heard of before. the idea being that, yes, there are all these many thinkers you listed that definitely influenced Peter Thiel. But one of them also that through our conscious intention in this moment, we can summon the singularity into existence to deliver us from

Courtenay Turner (1:53:15)

Yeah.

Will Spencer (1:53:24)

whatever is going on in the world that they want to control, let's say.

Courtenay Turner (1:53:30)

I feel like I'm gonna have to find out who said this and look this up Yeah, definitely I'm like who said that Yeah, I'm like trying to find it but I don't know they're gonna find it that quickly but yeah, oh No stream consciousness, that's not right. Okay. Well, I will I will look into that but yeah, they so all of them were

Will Spencer (1:53:35)

I'm sending Courtney turning down to rabbit hole.

Right, I wish I could remember his name.

Courtenay Turner (1:53:59)

kind of influenced by the same line of thought. yeah, so Hegel himself talks about how it is, you know, mystical. And so I think he really was signaling to the initiated, ⁓ this is I was gonna say. So he, you know, he said that he rejected both Kant and Plato's notion of dialectic because it was too abstract, too intellectual. He wanted a methodology for advancing the historicity of man. So essentially he wanted like a...

a tool, you know? And he pretty much says that, and that's pretty much what he codified. Not to that he was the first. mean, we see this kind of unity of opposites through, and I laid that out in the book, through ⁓ lots of these ancient religions before him, but I think they paid the way for what he really cemented and I think that has become really a tool for social engineering and ⁓ empire.

Will Spencer (1:54:29)

Mm-hmm.

What if it really were true that more than some sort of a cult New Age pagan awakening, which I think everyone can see very clearly, what's underlying our political moment is so much more, I guess, cultic pantheist, know, antichrist in nature than people can recognize. Like here at the top of the iceberg, we're looking at all these, here we are in Antarctica, we just woke up in Antarctica, and we're seeing all these little tips of the iceberg floating around like, oh, isn't this nice? But then underneath,

it's a giant it's a giant world that is ultimately at the deepest levels interconnected and I think surfacing in a way that like I don't know all my pre-millennial listeners are probably like exactly so we see it all happening around us

Courtenay Turner (1:55:42)

Yeah, I think we do see it happening all around us. I mean, it's definitely much more in your face than it ever was, right? I mean, even when you look through since we brought up like Peter Thiel and they're very much influenced by the accelerationists. And this was ⁓ born out of like the ⁓ cybernetic cult research unit and cybernetic something, CCRU.

But Nick Land was one of the prominent thinkers on this. I mean, they're very, very esoteric. He was very influenced by people like Ebola. This is like blatant esotericism. And it's very much in line with a lot of the same kind of, ⁓ you know, theosophical kind of premises. You know, obviously they're talking about accelerating technology, essentially towards the singularity.

So, you know, there's nuanced differences in their perspectives and how they're going to foment things and what the plan is, if you will. Let the plan of love and light work out, as they say. But he does talk about, like he has this document, it's so creepy, it's hyper-racism. And it's essentially like...

Will Spencer (1:56:59)

I don't like the title of

that already. Nick.

Courtenay Turner (1:57:01)

Right, hyper racism.

So we have to go beyond racism. So this is like the dialectical evolution of racism. Go beyond it.

Will Spencer (1:57:08)

I think some people

are way ahead of him probably.

Courtenay Turner (1:57:12)

Yeah, well, Elon Musk is doing his job because it's essentially positive eugenics using ⁓ genetic selection. So that's what it's all about, is using, ⁓ and that's what Elon's doing. He's using CRISPR-Cas9 and donations and Petri dish. He's taking the humanity out of the procreation process. And I think this is a part of...

Will Spencer (1:57:15)

Yeah. ⁓

Courtenay Turner (1:57:41)

That whole thing with the Sinclair, ⁓ I think part of that whole thing was to desensitize people and dehumanize the procreation experience, to lay groundwork for ⁓ acquiescence to the transhuman agenda. ⁓ I mean, I don't know, but it seemed like propaganda to me.

Will Spencer (1:58:04)

That's very interesting. had actually.

Courtenay Turner (1:58:06)

Ashley Sinclair. ⁓

Will Spencer (1:58:08)

⁓ actually St. Clair. yeah, that whole thing. Yeah. Well, that's very interesting because I've done a lot of work thinking about the sexual revolution and its impact on civilization, which I don't know that we fully understand yet. But one of the things that I hadn't considered, which I think might be a very good point, is by depersonalizing and desacralizing sexuality and making it cheap and commercial and ultimately easy to acquire and fundamentally meaningless, not even for procreation and even to the point where

Courtenay Turner (1:58:11)

Thank you.

Will Spencer (1:58:38)

like new generations are checking out of it. It's interesting that that does pave the way for ⁓ ectogenesis, just raising children outside of the womb or germinating children outside the womb. Maybe germinating might not be the best word, but that's very interesting. I hadn't thought about that, but I can see if that wasn't the original conscious intention in the first half of the 20th century, that it could be repurposed for that very easily.

Courtenay Turner (1:59:07)

Yeah. Well, I actually do think that was largely, I think it was a depopulation agenda. It was to dehumanize, destroy families, destroy relationships. I actually think there is a biological component as well. ⁓ know, humans are not meant to behave in that kind. It's not the healthiest. So there are intergenerational ramifications to that. And studies have been shown on

you know, those types of experiences that people have. So I think it was multifaceted, but I think it was very destructive. I also think that it ruins the core fabric of relationships. know, this is, this generation, I mean, now it's very different because everything's online. That's got its own set of problems. But I know, like, for my generation, you saw, like, the Sex and the City era. That's what I called it. And, uh...

You know, had characters like, they would take quizzes, you know, which character are you? And of course, Samantha was touted as like the, you know, ultimate feminist in the, And what was she doing? And that was being promoted as like the way women should live and that we should embrace that. But ultimately, it prolongs marriage, it prolongs any kind of meaningful relationship, it prolongs procreation.

Will Spencer (2:00:15)

Cougar.

Courtenay Turner (2:00:35)

And it also undervalues human life because now you're incentivized if you happen to be inexperienced and you have a baby as a result and now well maybe you're not ready or whatever and so it's okay to do discard. It devalues human life. mean that's essentially what it And again I'm not saying this from a place of judgment to judge anybody's experiences or choices.

I'm just looking at it from a sociological phenomenon. What is the result? What does it do? And I can't really ⁓ look at it in any way other than to look at the result and say that that was intentional. I just think this was a psychological operation designed to dehumanize and depopulate.

Will Spencer (2:01:27)

Yeah, and everyone's super invested in this way of being because it's quote unquote pleasurable, right? But we can be often led astray by the pleasures that we pursue.

Courtenay Turner (2:01:37)

Is it really pleasurable though? I mean, I think that was also kind of a lie. I'm not saying that there's never any short term pleasure, not what I'm saying, but you know, but is it really pleasurable to have experiences that are devoid of real meaning, that don't have deep attachments and significance? I don't think that that's truly pleasurable for humans. Humans want to have secure attachments and build something and, ⁓ you know, have foundations that ⁓

Will Spencer (2:01:45)

Sure, sure,

Yes.

Courtenay Turner (2:02:07)

know, blossom into something. That's what humans want to do. I mean, we're only here for a short time. So to think that we just chase a hit of something. Now, I mean, we're biological creatures and of course, you might have a short-term pleasurable experience, but we really look back on it. I don't think it's, it's not fulfilling, I guess is the way to say it.

Will Spencer (2:02:28)

Yes, exactly. I think that's probably closer to what I meant. Like it's maybe sensual, right? You set up the difference between sensual versus fulfilling. Correct. Yeah, it's as we pull on all these threads, we can see the kind of web that we were, many, to much extent,

Courtenay Turner (2:02:30)

Yeah.

Yeah, no, and I think pleasure is right, but it's not fulfilling. Yeah, I think you're, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Will Spencer (2:02:49)

even those of us who are awake to it, all still kind of like stuck in it. Like we're not lost in it. We're not like Neo in the Matrix. I don't want to get all gnostic with it, Like little G. But there's a way in which this is the fabric of reality that we find ourselves embedded in at this moment. And so ⁓ as we just talk about all this, my question is, as you research all of this and you do the primary source reading, and man, you've talked about stuff that even I haven't heard of, which is awesome, how do you

Courtenay Turner (2:02:54)

Good. ⁓

Will Spencer (2:03:19)

stay grounded in the midst of all this? And maybe we can close on this. As people begin exploring these many of these topics, whether through reading or videos or your podcast or some of mine, how do you stay grounded amidst all of this overwhelming information?

Courtenay Turner (2:03:19)

Bye.

⁓ that's a big question. guess, ⁓ yeah, it's a big question. think you just have to, I mean, you have to find your, like your why. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing whatever it is you do? What are the things you love? What's, you know, what matters to you? And then just find things that are outside of it altogether. You know, find things that give you pleasure and fulfillment, both. But, ⁓ you know, that are meaningful.

Will Spencer (2:03:37)

Hahaha

Courtenay Turner (2:04:04)

like your relationships and also things that are relaxing and detached. So I personally really like my physical stuff outside. I like to make sure I get to the gym. That's really important to me and spend time with my family. Yeah, I don't know. I ⁓ don't think it's easy. It definitely can be dark. And I would actually say sometimes reading all this stuff is less dark.

than watching some of the madness online. Sometimes that actually gets to me much more, like all of these cultal personalities. And I think sometimes I feel like I'm screaming into the abyss and that can be very frustrating. And I wish people would engage more with ideas. ⁓ Yeah, so that's, ⁓ but the ideas themselves, mean, that's a, we're always going to be on a journey because we are limited.

the Gnostic to get that right. In that regard, we were limited. We are not perfect, but I don't believe we can be perfected. ⁓ That's where we differ. ⁓ And I think that knowledge should be ⁓ a tool. It's not to create self-apotheosis and self-divinization. It's not for that. It's so that we can navigate. And for me, it's really, that's why I say it's to inform, inspire, and empower. It's really about free will.

So I feel like the more information I have, then I am better equipped to exercise my free will. And that's what I hope to impart onto others, is to give them a sense so that they're not caught in these webs. They're not caught in dialectical churns. They can step outside the wizard circle. They're ⁓ not totally, none of us are going to be impervious to programming or to some extent of.

Will Spencer (2:05:50)

Mm-hmm.

Courtenay Turner (2:05:59)

the brainwashing and all of the various mind games and propaganda. But I think that the more we can learn about these various things and the history, then maybe we can fine tune our disarmament and not fall for every one of them.

Will Spencer (2:06:17)

Yeah, to not be taken capture by either our reason or our faith, but to maintain them both quite healthy so that we can so that we cannot fall into the many. I love that you turn heard the use the term wizard circle. I've been listening to some James Lindsay lectures where he talks about the same the same thing. How many wizards are trying to draw us into the circles and how many circles there are. And we have to through our own discernment and our own information and our own right hearts stay out of all of them.

Courtenay Turner (2:06:34)

Hmm.

Yeah, well they are. mean, they're ⁓ linguistic masters. They ⁓ play mind games. They cast spells through language. And so it is literally a wizard circle that they're putting around you. And so I actually mean it quite literally. Some of these people are, they consider magnus in their various respective fields. So I think we should recognize them as humans and deal with the ideas themselves so that we're not.

We're not as susceptible to the hypnosis.

Will Spencer (2:07:20)

That's a, that's a

really good point is listen to the what they're saying and unwind the ideas that they're saying to you and don't go after the man or the woman. That's not going to stop anybody from doing that, but ultimately the way that you liberate yourself from the wizard circle is not by, you know, killing the wizard because you're still in the circle.

Courtenay Turner (2:07:30)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah, it's about what did they convince you of? What spell did they cast? That's what you should be dealing with. ⁓ I mean, if you look at it from biblical perspective, it's battles of powers and principalities, right? So it's not the, dealing with the person. These are, these are

powers and principalities and I think that's the same thing. These various ideas, these concepts, these worldviews and I think the less we idolize or vilify people, think that the better off will be in escaping some of these wizard circles.

Will Spencer (2:08:21)

Yes. Well, thank you so much for all the work that you do in providing just an incredible output of liberating information from a lot of these, again, wizard circles and ideas. I'm continually astounded at how much you are able to process and make available. And I think everyone listening can hear what I'm talking about a little bit.

Courtenay Turner (2:08:44)

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Will Spencer (2:08:47)

So where would you like to send people to find out more about you and what you do?

Courtenay Turner (2:08:52)

⁓ Well, Courtney Turner dot com and I just spell my name a little bit differently. It's pronounced Courtney, but I spell it like Courtney and lots of people like to tease me and call me Courtney and that's totally fine. But that helps you spell it. It's C-O-U-R-T-E-N-A-Y-T-U-R-N-E-R dot com. And that's where you can find all of my various podcast platforms, all my social media. I have a contact page and of course all the ways you can support my work.

And I started a sub stack, guess about, I don't know, I to say like six, seven months ago now, maybe. But I am putting all of my podcasts out there ad free and early access for my paid subscribers. And it would be of great help to me. I know not everybody is in a position to do so, but this takes up a tremendous exorbitant amount of time and resources. I mean, just for the platforms, it's actually quite expensive to do all this. So.

Will Spencer (2:09:43)

us.

Courtenay Turner (2:09:48)

Any help is always greatly appreciated. yeah, so you can get all of that on my sub stack. And I have really been working to try and get articles out to you as well. ⁓ Although it's ⁓ really hard to get all of this done. There needs to be more hours in the day. So, but.

Will Spencer (2:10:03)

Yeah, to synthesize

and harmonize and express all of the information simple enough for just someone who's involved with it casually to understand, I know how difficult that is, so thank you.

Courtenay Turner (2:10:15)

Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. This is a pleasure.

Will Spencer (2:10:20)

Thank you, was for me as well.