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[Music]

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hello my name is Will Spencer and welcome to the will Spencer podcast this is a weekly Show featuring in-depth

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conversations with authors leaders and influencers who help us understand our changing World new episodes release

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every Friday I walked into the fight laugh Feast conference a couple weeks ago with modest expectations and found

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myself surprised by the depth of conversation and connections waiting to happen what started as a simple podcast

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Booth to advertise the new will Spencer podcast became an opportunity to connect with some remarkable and unexpected

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individuals the conference brought together a mix of reformed thinkers artists and entrepreneurs each with a

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unique perspective to share and over the next three episodes I'll be introducing you to the seven men I talked to First

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up Isaac Bodkin a decentralization Advocate and co-owner of T-Rex arms who

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offers a nuanced look at technology and systems alongside him Logan Riser from

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krux art a second generation glass blower who creates impressive sculptures turning glass into art that reaches up

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to 50 ft episode 2 planned for next week features none other than Pastor James White from Alpha and Omega Ministries

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joined by a surprise special guest who makes a hysterical Cameo we'll also hear

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from Jim Hunter of alp's precious metals group who brings insights from his background in the finance industry our

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final episode will feature Parker Brown from the watch well podcast discussing the intersection of films and faith

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you'll also hear from the Borman father andon Duo Samuel a farmer and missionary

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who's working with a native tribe in Mexico and his son Andrew who's written a children's book exploring get this

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Christianity and transhumanism a very impressive young man I can't wait for you to hear from each conversation

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offers a different lens on faith creativity and Human Experience these aren't just interviews they're Windows

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into different perspectives and ways of thinking so I hope you'll join me for what promises to be an interesting

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series and thanks to fight laugh Feast for making it all possible now look this show isn't just another podcast this is

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a movement to rebuild the foundations of Western Christian culture and you play a critical role here's how you can be part

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don't just click Stars write an actual review tell people why these conversations matter and share your

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docomond what we put out publicly but here's the most important thing support

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our advertisers when you buy from Christian businesses is you're not just making a purchase you're helping build

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multigenerational wealth that can restore our cultural foundations this isn't just consumption this is spiritual

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warfare through economics and please welcome this week's guests for part one of my three-part fight laugh Feast

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series from krux Glass Logan Riser and from T-Rex arms Isaac

Logan Reyer - Crux Art

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Bodkin so Logan welcome to the podcast thanks so much for sitting down in the chat with me today no doubt yeah thanks

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for having me on this conference is is legit you're having a good time oh yeah you know it so uh so we started talking

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last night at the I guess it's the Afterparty the the conference that just started you can't really have an Afterparty anyway Gabe Gabe likes to

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have the parties early and often right exactly the pre-af party and so you were telling me about all the exciting stuff

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that you're doing with glass blowing and glass artistic creation why don't you share some of those because that's

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absolutely one of the coolest things I've heard about for a while and very enthusiastic to hear about men doing you

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know taking their skills taking artistic skills and putting them into service for the kingdom today right yeah so it all

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started 10 years ago I actually left College to to start a company with my dad and uh fell in love with the uh the

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artwork very quickly I did it a handful of times when I was growing up as a kid but uh got absolutely consumed with uh

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the process so we're talking about 2,000 Dee liquid glass 2000° liquid glass yes

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yeah and we work out of a uh a very large furnace that holds 400 lb of glass that has to be hot 24 s oh okay yep so

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we uh what's it heated with uh natural gas you can go either way but we go natural gas for a number of reasons for

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sure um so I ended up going to a number of art fairs right off the bat in the

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beginning and was heavily convicted of the culture uh behind that scene and

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yeah I mean it was uh actually up in Chicago at uh sofa and um you know there

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are a ton of amazing Craftsmen up there uh in that in that sphere um but ALS so

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those with an agenda that uh that wasn't bringing glory to Christ yeah we talked

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about some of those last night but yeah and uh other graphic forms of art let's say yeah for sure and uh I actually one

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of the first bigger projects that I started when I was doing this full-time was I was trying to make a a larger oak

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tree um to find when you say larger oak tree say about 30t tall that's would be

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a large oh wait you're Mak out of glass yes yeah so that that started off yeah

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so that started off with uh making parts of the trunk and making these larger green platters uh for the leaves and um

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platters yeah so these are spun out glass platters so if you would imagine a bowl on the end of like a larger a

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larger stick you have to get that hot and spin it flat with centrifugal force yes yep so um then you have to blow the

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glass like arm to hold yes the weight of a that's not how a tree Works a a leaf

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is relatively light compared to the bran you got to go with you got to go with big leaves if you're doing in a 30ft tree yes yes for sure um so so crazy

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process with that but I got very consumed with how to make a wood grain out of glass okay so uh chased that and

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then it it kind of uh dawned on me uh I felt like the Holy Spirit was pushing me

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to to figure out how to make a cross so I was thinking about how uh there was a wood grain and all these beautiful

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crosses that that I would have admired for years and um kind of took that and

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ran with it uh within uh about a calendar year uh I made my first cross

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sculpture that was completely made out of clear glass so this was uh 8 ft tall roughly 100 lb but uh it's if anything

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it's almost 2T glass blocks that are assembled with uh so the whole thing

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could could actually uh stand on its own without without any epoxy or adhesion or

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and whatnot so there's there's blocks were stock stacked on each other and fused together yes so it's a very

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specific fusing process it's a Nas grade epoxy so this is done outside of the hot process so you can so you actually you

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can actually see the blocks fused together it's not one seamless you you try to get as close as you can course of

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course but yeah for sure but but you'd still be able to see the lines okay that's when we were talking last night

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that's I was trying to figure out like is it one cuz you explained that you did it in sections I was like how does he

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get that to be like Apparently one smooth piece this makes more sense yep so uh and I know we were talking and

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this is a very specific uh cast iron mold that was milled out and we have to use an air compressor for how big uh

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each vessel is or each block is uh I I was getting close to passing out on the the top of the stairs trying to work

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with these larger molds so we went to the air compressor so yeah okay yeah the heat plus the lack of oxygen you can

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find yourself in sticky situations for sure sure yeah yeah no doubt um you don't want to die on the cross jeez man

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uh only one that's right um yeah so uh I started creating these other sculptures

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but then I really got into working with uh scripture and sand blasting with the glass and uh working with uh I'm I'm

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doing the weave here so I'm tying in from the glass tree uh so the weave it's the best it's the best uh so with the

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the leaves these green platters that I had uh if you have the right light so uh there's something called um the magic

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hour right around Sunset that that beautiful soft light comes through a window and um that light can create a

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beautiful refra so not a shadow but a refraction through the glass onto a surface yes uh so my

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goal um was was trying to illuminate scripture through glass okay yep so uh

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worked on uh sand blasting and u a lot of really cool uh groundbreaking

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Technologies with that uh and then that was when I made uh the first cross with scripture and that that contained the

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entire Gospel of Mark so yeah every word that's a lot you're handwriting with a little tool not no it's not a Dremel

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tool that would have took 12,200 hours I was going to say how did you get how did you get the scripture out you there's a

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very specific technology that you can apply stencils to the glass and then and then sand blast it past that so so so

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sorry is it is it like pasted on or is it it's a stencil and you spray over it

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yeah a very specific film that you can burn with an LED light that has an adhesion on the back of it okay got it

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it involves like pressure washing and really specific pressure and sometimes the stencil do sck so you have to rip

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that one off a and then you get to the point that you know is it going to hold up during the

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the high pressure sand blasting sometimes the stencil doesn't work out you have to start completely over on a on a totally new piece creative process

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yes for sure um so that was a very ambitious first project I learned a lot

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I got I got my butt kicked for sure you sound like an ambitious guy frankly like with the the projects that you describ

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it was like this is some other level yeah I I have broken a lot of glass yes

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for sure's let's go with that yes um so then uh I went down to Knoxville uh Gabe

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invited me down there for the fight LA beast conference um and he was extremely generous in saying that artists could

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come for free have a free Booth I was even able to bring my buddy Jimmy uh and we were just trekking through the hills

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of Tennessee on the way down to Knoxville with a very full uh hatchback of glass so just pack to the brim it was

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it was a good drive smoke some cigars it was good okay um yeah we went down there and and um it was actually uh listening

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to Toby Sumpter down there um that I had this idea of yeah trying to illuminate

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scripture through the glass and uh later made a a flat glass because if there's

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if there's too many uh too many paines of glass you're not going to get a clean refraction so it has to be somewhat flat

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uh to be able to push the light through and get definition for that for that uh look okay so uh that's when I made a uh

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it's a 10t uh Blue Cross that's inspired by the seven signs from John okay so I

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went with all the references to water there so that's why I went with blue uh but that was uh sand blasted and fire

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polish so you have to do all the sand blasting but then you have that chalky residue look you go back into the 2000°

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furnace and fire polish those panels so that the light can can completely go through the glass okay so um tying that

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together there was also a larger cross that had uh the naral sword from The Lord of the Rings okay and it was the

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joy of the Lord is is he was talking about he wields that as his weapon right and that was a huge talk uh down at

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Knoxville that I've I don't think I've ever heard a better public speaking effort in my life um completely

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captivated me uh so then created these uh yeah the crosses with the sand

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blasted scripture but then um got really convicted on how to

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incorporate biblical imagery um so uh it's just kind of led to where where I'm at right now in this

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creative process of being able to take these panels and waterjet cut Silhouettes out of the glass and combine

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them with Airline Cable in midair so this would actually give uh you know a huge uh concept of modularity in uh

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depth so you can have you know multiple layers of this glass intersecting and overlapping to create one image so if

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you're standing from a particular perspective it would seem to be flat but as you stood perhaps underneath it you

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would see that there are multip lay glass hung in multiple layers that's really cool yeah so either uh from above

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or you could walk around and see it from the front got it okay and so you're you're actually so it's not like a

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diarama where it's all pieces connected together and suspended from one string holding them all it's multiple pieces

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suspended for multiple strings that's incredible yeah yeah yeah so um being

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able to get even more detail oriented with that um has just been a crazy

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battle but an awesome jour so that's that's kind of where we're at now and kind of figuring out where those

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limitations are and and what can be uh what can be made wow yeah I mean what

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what you're describing I don't think that there are a whole lot of people listening there might be who are familiar with glass

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blowing from a casual degree maybe some of them have tried it in various educational experiential settings but

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what you're describing sounds to me like a series of very important Innovations

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in in in the field for sure yeah it's definitely a positive something and it's all it's all cumulative uh you know

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having these uh you know stacking skills of being able to do all of these things uh together to create something that

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that hasn't been made yet right yeah specifically for the glory of God right right and so I guess I I'm interested in

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so you're pioneering techniques that have not been used by anyone other than yourself and so far as I know so far as

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you know and so in this hyper woke massively left leaning world and I guess

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I guess I'm interested in like the impact of that like hey all all you pagans yeah this is glorious and I

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pioneered all these techniques like I don't know deal with it I don't know so it's the work's done right yeah so I uh

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one of the projects that that might be my favorite of the crosses that I made with sand blasing I made the cross of the crucifixion and that was uh fluid

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lacerations throughout the entire thing um it was three layers of glass and this is actually one piece so this was all

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put together to be one piece uh it has uh that the holes where his hands were the hole where his feet were a a hand

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sculpted Crown of Thorns this is supposed to be you know a gruesome piece of art to display the reality of how

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gruesome the gospel was yeah um and down in my my studio in Davenport Iowa I have

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that right in the front of the door and every single person that walks in there looks at that cross got to deal with it

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but it's so amazing the way that children and any age can get captivated

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in that yeah and it it can surprise you in that so I'm in Iowa you know take that for what it is but um I See's

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perfect right right right right uh oh come on I'm repping the Midwest I love

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the Midwest fine I'm in a fly over State too for sure for sure for sure um but

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you see this this this captivating uh gaze and adoration in in

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those sculptures that is is everything that I set out to accomplish to look at right um but you

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also have people that are completely turned away but then they'll ask me later on if if it's uh you know for

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whatever reason they're still in the gallery what's your favorite thing to make and I I can't lie and this is what I spent all my time in so yeah to be

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able to thoroughly talk about the gospel through my artwork is is amazing blessing to use that as an outlet amen

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amen and and that's one of the things that was one of the many things that was so interesting about talking to you last night is that you had taken you learn

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these skills from your father which I'd like to talk about and you put 10 years of experience fulltime yeah into into

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this now you know a lot of people know about the whole 10,000 hours thing and if you work it out that 10 years ends up

16:19

being roughly that right but 10 years of experience doing anything I think a lot of people underestimate the gravity of

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that but you're putting it into such a specific Direction yeah right in such a in such a focused and godly way just

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found that commitment to be inspiring yeah yeah I think uh you know even yeah

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Darren D is definitely a reference that that has had an impact on me just that the idea of repetition and uh the idea

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of anything uh anything is worth making even if it's done poorly like you

16:50

absolutely have to learn especially when things break for no reason in my industry yeah everything can be the same

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all the conditions can be right but all glasses broken just hasn't broken yet so it's it's there's a poetry to that right

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it's one of those things um but yeah it's it's a it's a ton of time a ton of experimentation but that

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creative process is something that you're not going to get anywhere else right yeah for sure and it's the commitment to a very specific set of

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skills yeah right like and and and I think there's something about glass blowing because the medium in particular

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is subject to spontaneous destruction right right like if you're painting you

17:28

might make a stroke or mess something up or perspective but like the canvas isn't suddenly going to burst into flames yeah

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or or um cut or burn you to the point that you need to go to the hospital yes yes exactly but the the medium itself

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and I think that that's something about various forms of creativity that I don't hear a lot of people talk about like

17:48

understanding the nature of the medium itself is very unique and dangerous potentially physically harmful it's

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heavy right right and it's uh temperamental un intended hey tempered

18:00

glass you know it man um but yeah ton of sweat um especially in the summer time

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so that is one thing I'm I'm I'm definitely in the situation in the midwest we get we get hot summers there for sure uh that's trying and but it's

18:14

you know you just got to stay hydrated go for the Redmond's Real Salt and and make sure you're you're alive right um

18:19

but yeah fire uh during that entire process seeing seeing what God has

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gifted us there um and then we have torches that can go

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uh insanely hotter than any other uh time period that's been blowing glass so

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I have I have fire in my hand that I can direct where you know they say the Egyptians did this first and they used

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woodf fired furnaces okay yeah that doesn't that only gets so hot right so it's it's just yeah being able to have

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those gifts and utilizing those uh is definitely yeah just a crazy uh blessing

18:53

as well for sure sure I mean like and you've also you've put years of your life into it right and you know you you

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you talk casually like I've broken a lot of glass and yes I I hear that but like in your first couple 3 years you didn't

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just break a lot of glass like you you probably burned yourself quite a bit you probably hurt yourself quite a bit like

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cuz that's part of it right that's part of learning like you know you start out anything that has risk like you're going

19:18

to make mistakes that you don't even know you're making but the glass will let you know you made it right and yeah

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it's it's it's totally defeating and if you if you are doing something that is completely new

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I I cannot describe to you how much I've relied on the Holy Spirit and through prayer even between attempts on making a

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sculpture or trying to get something done um you know something breaks something breaks something breaks you

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know what's what's different you're a man nothing's going to be different Grace from God is going to get you

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through this that's that's the only way um yeah so the physical and the mental

19:53

uh time put into that is is taxing and I there's just there's no possible way

19:59

that I could have even gotten any of the The Works done uh apart from myself so

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everyone just went on break here and you've got your booth over there so I don't want to keep you too long you probably want to get back I think yeah

20:10

for sure yeah I mean I want if you're down to keep talking I'd love to but like I want to make sure that you're

20:16

supposed to be talking to me but you're also supposed to be talking for sure to them for sure for sure uh I'd say I got

20:21

another five or 10 minutes okay cool yeah yeah cuz it's like these are the people yeah okay fantastic so so I guess

20:28

then the question would would be like as you worked your way through that

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from the early stages the the Holy Spirit was driving you you was building into a lot of what you're doing did you

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feel did you were you aware the Holy Spirit was pushing you down this path like obviously it was something that

20:45

your dad shephered you in he brought you into the I guess the family business in a way but like did you you must have

20:51

felt something personal moving in you like okay this is the direction that I'm called in yeah yeah so there was uh

20:58

there was a huge push I left College to start this company so I left College yeah okay yeah praise God you don't need

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a college degree for for business either yeah yeah right um and glass blowing is a trade for sure um but yeah I guess I

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um working with my dad and working with uh we actually have another uh combat

21:19

veteran named Marvin uh that works with us too shout out Marvin yeah shout out to Marvin um but uh yeah just working

21:25

with these guys on these projects and being able to share the gospel uh you know as we're working together is uh is

21:31

definitely a driver too uh you know that uh fervent prayer for sure being into that situation and and and representing

21:37

the living King and and all of that so I mean it really is a all of Christ for all of life yeah including all of work

21:45

right process as well for sure right and yeah I mean uh you know having uh you know being an artist I I can't be as you

21:52

know thankful I tell you how thankful I am for for my wife for being able to go through that process and all those

21:57

failures with uh obviously you know at the end of the day completely drained from being there in the summertime and and she's there

22:04

and she she supports what I'm doing so that's yeah that's a huge part of it too and I think that's an underappreciated

22:09

aspect of I mean and you're an artist as well right and art is um art is very

22:15

unique in that the results can be unpredictable right right you can you can pour all of your time and energy and

22:20

atttention into any sort of piece in any medium and it can just not work out because of your own mistakes or a flaw

22:26

in the vision or whatever that you couldn't even predict yeah and like as a man and as a creative Spirit let's say

22:32

that hurts and you come home and like oh just kind of defeated you know and that's part of the process very

22:38

different from anything else and she's there to help support you in that right yeah for sure yeah and wouldn't be

22:44

anywhere without my church and uh I brought the same friend to this conference that I did in Knoxville and the community that we have uh at Sacred

22:50

City in in borf is is phenomenal and they' they've just been a huge support as well for sure so so you're not like

22:57

you're you're a man as as part of a team in a community I'm in a team and and and I guess that's another like gift of the

23:03

holy spirit in a way because so many artists are so solitary like it's me in my studio and it's just me and it's like

23:09

the solitary genius is a the Romantic notion of that that's just there's a ton of pride in that I mean you know

23:15

everyone wants to say hey let me walk into a cave and come out with something that is absolutely amazing right right

23:20

uh or you know like the philosophy like you know don't talk to me uh for two and a half years and I'm going to come back with this new idea that is going to

23:26

completely blow your mind but uh there's preciousness in that you know and I guess we talked about this last night

23:32

too yeah but speak about preciousness right um so being way too detail

23:37

oriented to the point that you never complete a project sure right um especially if you're doing something

23:44

new right you have to get the idea out into the stratosphere right uh and you're never going to do that by being

23:51

completely just crushed by all of these smaller little details that you're

23:57

probably going to get lasered in on if you're not part of a team right so uh yeah having that team and being able to

24:02

say like still working on that huh yeah and then there's the conviction of it's

24:07

time to go it's time to send it out yeah for sure you got to you got to put it out there in the public let people look

24:12

at it and be exposed be exposed in a way you know what I mean it's like oh everyone's seeing this and then yeah

24:19

also uh referencing uh you know everyone wants to see your failures in that and we live we live in uh we live in this

24:26

time now that uh everything is is accessible to to watch someone's story right right and that is

24:34

yeah definitely something that I want to expand upon uh you know in that team aspect of uh of being able to get my

24:40

work out there more through social media and and focus on that and something I wrestle with being that artist that you

24:46

know just wants to create the work but not create the video content to show the world sure yeah you want you want to

24:51

have you want to keep your process private but people want to be part of of the process and that's been a big

24:56

humbling thing for me is like recognizing that over four years of doing this like I've failed a number of

25:02

times you know like and if people who have been listening for four years can think back you can probably think of a lot of initiatives I've started that I

25:08

haven't that I haven't borne fruit or that I haven't followed through on CU it's like you know that's part of the process of we finding who we are to

25:15

trying a bunch of different stuff and it's so humbling yeah especially I remember Gabe talking to the Cross

25:21

politic guys about we're not listening to the first season that we filmed you know like for for ex amount of time and

25:26

yeah that was that was actually when they had Darren Don on there they were talking about that too so yeah uh we

25:31

we've any type of artist is going to have that the sooner we can get past that and even put that out in the world

25:36

is is when we're going to be able to make an impact for sure but I think even like you're at 10 years now yeah at a

25:42

level where a lot of people would be starting out like I'll never be able to get there right but you'll be at 20 years and you'll look back at the stuff

25:48

that you did at 10 years like ah amateur yeah well that's just I mean this just how we are it's just yeah that's kind of

25:53

kind of just how it has to be I guess amen for sure amen no doubt well has been fantastic thank you so much for

25:59

sitting down in the chat with me and for your enthusiasm for what you do it's it's infectious it's infectious and and

26:05

thank you for doing it and such a fallen artistic environment yeah I know that the glass blowing I mean I can only

26:12

imagine you know and so you're being a stand for Christ in this world maybe just speak about that for a moment yeah

26:18

um I I think uh George Grant just hit it on the head about uh the apocalyptic

26:23

mindset that we can get into okay and um you know like you're like you were saying um I've been doing this for 10

26:30

years but you know tomorrow or when we get back on Monday that's another day and

26:35

it's it's ever and a right just like just like we sing here um even even just

26:42

like songs Psalms hymns of being able to uh to stay grounded in Christ uh during

26:49

this creative process like that the Psalms and being able to sing has gotten

26:54

me through so many creative disruptions so much friction that uh that I can't I

27:00

can't even describe that in words other than singing um and that uh yeah that's been a huge gift that really has came a

27:07

lot from fight La Feast and that was singing down in Knoxville we had uh that was that one fly Gabe reference in the

27:13

beginning of the right right he's over here now yeah followed us around for sure um but yeah singing uh to get

27:19

through the creative process and and uh stay rooted in scripture has has been everything everything in that for daily

27:25

disciplines and uh it's been amazing amen that's so necessary when on the cuttingedge when pursuing something

27:32

difficult when doing something dangerous right what else keeps us going about that yeah you're getting suited up and

27:38

going into battle and we're going to sing amen amen and and you and you get to share the fruits with all of us with churches you know with here with the

27:45

conference and you you make something I know that all glass you said all glass breaks it just hasn't broken all glass

27:51

breaks it just hasn't broken yet yet you know may the things that you break May the things that you make break long

27:57

after you're gone someone else that' be good amen well thank you so much for this where would

28:02

you like to send people to find out more about you and what you do yeah so Instagram uh handles krux glass art so

28:08

that's Crux glass art also krux uh Crux art.org

28:14

cart.org everyone go over there check that out and uh and you're and you do experiential kind of things in the

28:20

Davenport Iowa area yep we do yeah so yeah we do a ton of educational stuff there uh we love being that that gem

28:27

we're one of the only glass wi Studios uh in that area let alone the Midwest so

28:32

uh yeah we love to contribute to that for sure excellent everyone check it out if you go that way no doubt thank you so much again appreciate you know

Isaac Botkin - TRex

28:45

it Isaac from T-Rex arms thanks so much for being here today well it is my pleasure uh I've seen you on Twitter and

28:52

I've been recommended your podcast several times I uh do you listen to podcasts or do you just make sometimes I

28:58

do when unmissable ones I do I I have a podcast which means I don't really listen to podcast anymore if I want to

29:04

talk if I want to hear somebody's podcast I like to have them on my podcast so that I get some content out

29:09

of it because the publishing schedule but but uh no I've uh we we've had a couple of conversations now and um I I

29:17

appreciate what you're doing on Twitter and so I'm really glad to be be on the podcast I'm really excited to have you

29:23

because uh as we were talking before we started recording I found my way into the sort of Firearms World in 2020 MH I

29:30

I lived in San Francisco good company actually that was a good year for people finding their way in yeah and it was a

29:36

huge year for you guys as well and I became aware of T-Rex not too long after that and just from my casual Observer

29:43

perspective I've Just Seen explosive growth in what you guys do how you present yourselves and you can feel it

29:49

and so I guess I was curious what has that been like in both uh from both a business perspective and also in the

29:55

Christian world as well as you've seen more Dawning awareness of these issues so uh the first uh 2020 was a

30:05

ridiculously successful year for us uh I can't remember exactly what we did sales-wise but we doubled our staff

30:12

amazing in 2020 so I can tell you what that's like deeply unpleasant uh unpleasant it's deeply unpleasant to be

30:19

buried under orders and be so busy working that you're hiring people and you would like to train them better but

30:26

there's too much work to actually do the training and there's uh by the grace of God it worked out

30:31

really well um but it was a very it was a very

30:36

um we we knew that we were so grateful for the sales sure because not only was

30:42

it income and cash flow which is important busy stuff but the mission the mission of T-Rex is to equip people so

30:48

finding all these people who want to be equipped with our stuff is also an incredible blessing but uh having to

30:56

make all those holsters having to hire people and there's also other issues in 2020 there's supply chain

31:02

stuff we had we had product that we are trying to redesign so that it can work with things we had um plate carriers and

31:09

chest rigs that used elastic and the elastic manufacturer said oh no we don't make that elastic anymore we only make

31:14

uh mask elastic we only make ear loop elastic now so we don't make any of the stuff that you have been buying from us

31:20

so all kinds of weird challenges in 2020 um but it was it was a great year for

31:26

the company and it was great to have the opportunity to serve more people and it was great to hire more people but it's

31:31

always hard to hire people that fast and uh just suddenly have double the number

31:36

of folks in your company and have half of them have half of them have been in the company for less than three months

31:42

is a weird it's a weird thing so uh that's why I say deeply unpleasant yes I

31:48

get it but uh but also great baptism by fire stuff and uh and I'm I'm so proud

31:53

of of everybody at T-Rex cuz everybody put in extra time extra effort really

32:00

really went the extra mile to serve customers and and try to really take care of all the people who were suddenly

32:06

interested in body armor um body armor sales were the biggest growth for us in

32:11

2020 and it happened when the riot started a lot of people watching the George Floyd Summer of Love Stuff yes

32:17

the Summer of Love showed people that fiery but peaceful protests are a good time to wear body armor a lot of people

32:23

who are like I understand what body armor is for but I don't understand what I why I would have it why I would need it uh as watch the news a lot of people

32:28

were like oh I get it now yeah that's worth 500 bucks yeah it is yeah it is yeah yeah so so that was kind of our

32:34

biggest um indicator that a change happened in 2020 a lot of it was people who were

32:41

just like oh I should have a gun buy a gun put it in the Shelf never think about it again but people who bought a

32:47

gun bought holsters and bought body armor are people who are thinking about more than just some kind of magic

32:53

Talisman to put in the closet right body armor is very unpleasant to buy or to wear So when you buy body armor it's a

33:00

commitment you you are thinking about more than just an Impulse buy yeah I

33:06

mean you're you're buying into the reality of a potential scenario yes a

33:11

firearm is like you said a magic Talisman if you're wearing body armor you are aware that Firearms work both

33:17

ways yes and and you're it is there's a it's a personal sacrifice to buy body

33:23

armor cuz it's expensive and then it's the worst thing in the world to wear like nobody wants to wear body armor the

33:28

only thing worse than wearing body armor is being shot without having body armor on so if I had to choose between the two

33:34

exactly yeah yeah so I I guess the interesting part for me there's a lot in here is we're here in an environment

33:42

that's full of Christian entrepreneurship like there like uh the the sponsor booths down there are just

33:47

amazing to see what businesses are doing and so you guys hit a moment of explosive growth that I think every

33:53

entrepreneur kind of Longs for right when you're drilling for oil the gusher happens and then you like you have to

34:00

actually capture the oil MH so from from inside you have three you have a whole bunch people you double your staff

34:07

there's no institutional knowledge you have to invent it with people like tell me what to do like we don't even know what you should do yeah so what was it

34:13

like coming out of that there there was a stabilizing time so fortunately we we

34:20

had built a good foundation before hiring all those folks we we had we had

34:26

just built at that point trying to remember now that was four years ago so we had about 6 years of company history

34:32

at that point okay so we had product line we had just bought a building and

34:38

so we had room to expand um the Lord really prepared us for this in ways that we did not know we were being prepared

34:44

for this so we really were ready um so that is the first thing is we we

34:49

actually had all the pieces we had the space we had some of the institutional knowledge we had some product design we

34:56

still had to scramble with Supply change stuff but our holsters we had decided months

35:01

before Co started to happen in early January My Brother David said you know one of the things we should do this year

35:07

is we should really now that we have a bigger building we should run really deep into raw materials no more Jus in

35:12

Time Manufacturing we should have at least 3 months of raw materials for holsters period just in case which is I

35:19

think a leading of the Lord because there was no reason to to have that

35:25

conviction in 2020 in January right um but it was a great there there were a

35:30

number of things that really set us up for Success some of was stuff we learned in the last six years uh the previous

35:36

six years some of it was stuff that there really isn't a good explanation it was just providential that uh that that

35:42

was the case but then coming out of that there was a lot of stabilizing that kind

35:47

of needed to be done we realized that we were a big enough company now that we needed to actually probably have I hate

35:55

the term HR human resources is is so dehumanizing I um but we we

36:02

realiz we need to have a person in that role a person who is really dedicated to hiring person that is really dedicated

36:08

to uh compliance once you get to a certain size of company you have a whole new raft of compliance that you got to

36:14

deal with so there were several roles in the company that just did not exist until we had certain thresholds and um

36:20

so there was a lot of stuff to once we brought on all the people and we got on top of all the orders there

36:26

was a bunch of stuff that still was on the to-do list to do end in 2021 and

36:32

2022 and um so those were kind of stabilizing years where we did some of

36:37

the training and some of the preparation that had been uh postponed during 2020

36:44

so and I think that speaks a lot to the maturity of the staff the fact that we could we could hire people and teach

36:50

them how to make holsters and tell them like don't worry we'll on board you next year or maybe the year after right like

36:56

that there were people who were mature enough and capable enough that they could do that like fine onboard me whenever just show me how to use the

37:01

machine now great so being able to find folks like that was was amazing and uh

37:08

so but those those six years getting ready for 2020 even though we didn't know that's what we're doing we're thing

37:15

and we we had dealt with growth before we growth is what you want it's what you

37:20

pray for yes but it also just adds to your workload and when when you are

37:25

making not exactly a custom product but a a made to order part uh it's really

37:31

easy to get twice as many orders and take 10 times as long to get them out because there are

37:36

weird there are weird bottlenecks that suddenly appear inside of your pipeline

37:42

and you realize your production line doesn't doesn't fail linearly it fails exponentially so oh yeah when yeah

37:49

things go wrong all at once when it rains the course yeah on once you once your buffer is full you don't just slow down you kind of stop like there's all

37:56

kinds of things related to production uh constraints and qrf workflow and stuff

38:02

we didn't really we we we didn't really test this to its limits but we'd already run into some of these things and

38:08

started to learn about them so when we had a a doubling of orders um we already had a rough idea of like oh we've

38:14

started to bump into these things and this is the way that we're going to handle them in the future oh the future's now so that was another great

38:20

providential thing that God had given us seasons of growth to let us build some of the pieces that we needed so it was

38:28

deeply unpleasant but we couldn't have been better prepared honestly no you were you you were it wasn't the right

38:34

place at the right time I mean there is an element of that but you had prepared to be in the right place at the right

38:40

time without knowing and a lot of folks experienced the same things um in 2020

38:45

there were uh it was a it was a rising tide that lifted all the ships so Sig USA

38:52

doubled their uh factory work floor space their square footage and were

38:57

buying machines as fast as they could and hiring people as fast as they could um the the firearm industry benefited

39:04

from a lot of the layoffs too there were so many people that lost their jobs in 2020 and not all of those people but a

39:11

lot of those people did find jobs in the firearm industry the firearm industry tends to be more conservative so a lot

39:17

of them fought harder to keep their doors open and had jobs available for

39:23

the the all the folks that had lost lost work so uh it was a really interesting thing

39:29

that happened across the industry not just with T-Rex yeah you said a word

39:34

earlier that I think really encapsulates how I perceive T-Rex maturity the

39:39

maturity of the staff and I have an Outsiders view of gun culture um I enjoy

39:45

some of the things that I see there's a there's clearly a subculture there that I appreciate from a distance that know

39:51

but I know very little about but T-Rex manages to come across as very mature

39:57

but also have fun very mature but also have a whole bunch of really young immature people in it at the same time

40:03

and and have a name like T-Rex arms which is a which is a joke yeah that's right cuz of little short arms right

40:10

exactly so so I appreciate that you think we're a mature company but like there's a there's a there's an undercurrent of of we have fun but

40:16

there's a seriousness and that's what I think maturity is maturity isn't Stern and stiff it can be that at some points

40:24

but to be mature is to recognize like there's a youthfulness coupled with a wisdom and like does that play out

40:30

within your corporate culture cuz I feel it from the outside uh it is something we strive for in our corporate culture

40:37

I'm not sure how well we pull it off but it' be a big challenge one of the things that we also struggle with is we don't

40:43

know what kind of company we are at T-Rex where it is like are we are we yeah are we a Manufacturing Company are

40:48

we a YouTube channel are we an educational company are we political lobbying company are we a Lifestyle brand um according to Darren Don and

40:55

some of the folks here we're a Lifestyle brand we could sell we could sell T-Rex arms bottled water you

41:01

know so there there's a bunch of things where we're not 100% entirely sure exactly what we are what bucket we fall

41:09

into we have our fingers in enough pies we do enough things we have a big mission and there's a bunch of different

41:16

pieces to that mission so I think that that helps a little bit where we can

41:21

hopefully avoid getting too precious uh too territorial about stuff we can just

41:27

be like hey you know we sell armor we sell night vision we're a YouTube company we have political lobbyist like

41:33

our identity isn't so wrapped up in one thing that we have to be too uptight about it hopefully and and our name

41:40

remains a joke so that also helps I think that's right but I think I think there's a blessing in that like

41:46

ultimately what I try to do when I encounter decisions like that is I remember how fortunate am I to get to

41:52

choose between a bunch of good options yes right like are we a Lifestyle brand are we this or that it's like those are

41:58

all pretty awesome options like what a blessing to get to choose and I find that that takes a lot of the pressure

42:03

off like when I need the answer the answer will be there right yeah are we an engineering company no are we leaning

42:09

heavily into being really good engineers and make really good tools yes cuz we we believe in constant Improvement and uh

42:17

so I think that that that is is a help especially as you get to be a bigger company uh we have hired a lot of

42:23

non-gun people in our local community we're in a very small town M so not

42:29

everybody that we hire to come run a CNC machine or Hardware holsters is going to

42:34

be a hardcore competition shooter uh budding militia man like we have a bunch of regular small town folks yes and so

42:43

if you come visit T-Rex you will not hang out with a whole bunch of strapping

42:48

dudes wearing cry multicam pants all the time really dry firing in between uh

42:54

loading the hos machines yeah uh we have guys like that it's true we do have guys like that but we have a whole

43:01

bunch of just regular folks and they're leaning into other aspects of the mission other aspects of serving customers and so I think that helps too

43:09

that we can we can uh try to achieve excellence in some

43:15

different areas be a little more well-rounded as a company so as a as a Christian company Christian own company

43:22

how does that interface with the gun culture World which is in many ways very pagan in many ways very you know yes

43:29

manly men how do you assert yourself in that in that role this is fascinating um

43:35

so the gun so there's a couple different things there the gun industry yeah most

43:40

people think the gun industry is Ruger Smith and Wesson companies that have been around for over 100 years um and

43:48

have primarily sold to duck hunters and deer hunters and it's and and we've we we we Young YouTube gun tuber Whipper

43:56

Snappers have been trying to pull them into AR-15 world and and and scary right-wing extremism for example so

44:02

there's a little there's there's that idea that's out there okay and uh if you go to SHOT show you might get that sense

44:09

CU there are giant hunting companies at SHOT show that have the most inoffensive

44:16

apolitical campaigns that you could possibly build around hunting okay and

44:21

then in the corner you have weird little companies that make niche Hardware like

44:28

um uh ballistic helmets and goggles for dogs can9 units that get dropped out of helicopters like you don't need more

44:34

than two or three companies making that equipment but they are at Shoto and they're across the hall from the

44:40

gigantic apolitical camouflage company interesting and so the whole industry is this weird mishmash of things and then

44:46

in another Corner you're going to have some weird guys with Twitter red pill

44:52

Zoomer memes as their entire Booth theme uh-huh so it's a it's a conglomeration

45:00

of a bunch of different things but there is a strong uh in the in the younger gun

45:05

culture 2.0 the way that we've talked about it in the past there is a a strong

45:10

masculine um and in the past it also has been heavily influenced by people with military experience okay so specifically

45:18

veterans that teach firearm proficiency develop products based on their time and

45:24

actual combat like that has been that has been the coin of authenticity that has been the coin of of value within gun

45:31

culture 2.0 and that's kind of changed a little bit I don't know to what extent T-Rex has been a part of that shift but

45:38

I think we have in some ways because my brother Lucas is a great shooter never been in combat uh I've never been in the

45:45

military and I don't also don't shoot well but I talk about issues and I

45:50

invent product and our our company is full of people that have different levels of combat experience we have guys

45:56

who have really incredible uh experiences to draw on and and real world testing of product

46:02

and then we have guys who are uh you know really really withdrawn from all of

46:08

that but phenomenal at other aspects of thinking through what a militia man

46:13

might need or how we would recover some freedoms or how we would actually better serve customers so very interesting uh

46:20

in many ways Lucas and I uh probably we have a number of people who are on the

46:25

YouTube channel and and have a public face face but I think L Lucas has probably helped move the needle a little

46:31

bit away from Black Rifle coffee bodybuilder uh SEAL Team Six influence

46:39

towards more more demonstratable skills I guess I would say um it's kind of it's

46:45

kind of a gnostic feel back in the in the early 2000s where it was like no these people who have seen the elephant

46:51

have a secret knowledge that regular civilians can't have and and it doesn't matter if you can't see their skill

46:57

it's an invisible it's an invisible thing that they bring to the table M and

47:02

there's absolutely an elephant excuse me there's absolutely an element of Truth to that yeah there are things that if

47:08

you sit at home and read books about military history you will not you will not consider some of the

47:15

realities of living in a trench for 7 Days these sorts of things you will not

47:21

have seen what the environment uh of a refugee Village is like if you just

47:26

about the logistics and the troop movements but on the flip side of that the guys who do the door kicking the

47:32

guys who have seen the things often times aren't thinking about the logistics and they aren't thinking about

47:37

the decisions they aren't thinking about some of the other aspects um so I love that there is now in gun culture 2.0 not

47:44

just a T-Rex but in gun culture 2.0 there is a much I would say there's

47:50

a much broader skill set there's also a lot more appreciation for different gifts different talents um

47:57

3D printing guys who are you know uh they're Geeks they're nerds often times

48:03

but they're inventing new gun technology and they're pushing the boundaries of freedom and gun laws and and so forth by

48:10

developing stuff that you can print at home uh does this podcast go on YouTube by the way uh it can well now that I've

48:18

mentioned 3D printed guns maybe it can't but maybe we'll cut that part out we'll cut that part out

48:24

okay that's okay uh it's probably Jeffrey cut this out it's

48:29

probably okay but YouTube is it's actually fascinating there is an element

48:35

I I'll back up you know people who can uh I'll try I'm trying to think

48:42

about completely I'm completely okay with not putting this on YouTube what whatever you want to do no I think I

48:47

think I think YouTube is if YouTube is where you're getting traction like go for it I'm trying to back up and

48:52

remember what I was find a better segue right yeah we were talking about we were talking about different uh

48:59

cultures within gun culture different skill sets that are finding their way together so you have you know you have

49:05

the people who are more militia minded hom trained personally trained like yourself and your brother then you have

49:11

the Special Forces guys the door kickers and those two guys they have stuff to teach each other it can't just be like

49:18

these are the guys and the only guys with the secret knowledge like maybe I haven't done that thing in the field

49:24

that you've done but I've achieved proficiency here

49:30

brothers collators and and uh I think it's just a maturing

49:37

of of the the community yeah where guys who are proficient in radio

49:43

communication guys who are proficient in ultralight camping some airsofters some overlanders like there there's there's

49:49

homesteaders there's a bunch of people who are very ideologically aligned or or adjacent to some of these ideas is and

49:57

so the fact that they are a part of gun culture 2.0 or maybe it's gun culture 3.0 now are um I think that has been a a

50:05

great it's been a great Improvement and a lot more maturity to the to the wider Community um and a lot of it I think

50:12

also mirrors what's happening just in the redpilled community on Twitter you're seeing that that is no longer

50:18

just trolls there's also a variety of people with different experiences and different interests that are kind of

50:24

part of that little uh clump or group that's appearing on X

50:29

now I'm seeing this we were talking about the Renaissance of men before we started recording the one of the ideas

50:36

behind the Renaissance of men when I started the podcast was that there are so many different male leaders that are

50:42

taking different angles on masculinity essentially they were setting themselves up as sort of arch types where they are

50:49

the example and so I just had the 30,000 fot view to look down and say like this is the Outdoor Hunter Guy this is the

50:55

Barbarian Guy this is the Entre right this is a playy and you know I was not looking from a Christian worldview

51:01

you're talking about Dan bazan right yeah well yeah he's an examp yeah he was he was on the far the far fringes but

51:07

yeah all these guys setting and like okay I look at all these different guys and like no one guy has it but they're

51:12

all pointing at the same thing and the attempt of the Renaissance of men was trying to get these men to see like we

51:18

all have things to learn from each other right we can be recognized as men among men and the example that I provide of

51:24

that is always the Lord of the Rings there in the fellowship you have nine totally different guys right from the

51:31

warrior king hero of Aragorn to the elderly wise man of Gandalf and you have gim Legas and then you have Frodo and

51:37

Sam and like something that would become a classic D and lineup for role players to come exactly but none of these guys

51:44

with all these very different nonoverlapping skill sets looked at each other and said I don't think you're men

51:50

enough old man none of them did that they understood that they were all United together in common purpose and so

51:57

what I hear you and that's what I was trying to get people to sort of see with the Renaissance of men ultimately because they had no solid worldview

52:03

foundation they were not able to come together but you're describing something that I see happening in so many

52:09

different ways how can men have different skills and talents come to work together towards common purpose and

52:15

recognize and see themselves in each other sounds like that's happening in gun culture a little bit I think so and I think that a lot of that has come from

52:22

some of it is just the maturing that comes with age there are guys that have been in it for a while and um and and

52:28

they have they have grown as individuals and and and that has that has helped them uh in many ways but also I think

52:36

that there has been a little bit more of a focus on the mission okay and the beauty of uh The Fellowship of the Ring

52:42

is the mission is really what pulls all those people together all those different groups so so elves men and

52:47

dwarves are no longer fighting at Cross purposes they have a common enemy they have a common Mission they're going to pull together and I think that that is

52:53

something that has happened in in gun culture where it's no longer just like we're going to we're going to fight to

52:59

get a couple of like gun bills passed maybe I think everyone understands now that the stakes are much bigger than the

53:06

assault weapons ban not coming back the stakes are much bigger than that there's something more that we need to do as a

53:12

country and the gun Community is more than just the lobbyist arm of Ruger

53:18

Smith and West and whoever so that I think is is another major factor here

53:24

that we realize like oh these things could sideways I'm going to need homesteaders and overlanders to help me

53:29

get chainsaws out to East Tennessee to help them with that because the community is about more than just making

53:36

sure that the NRA has enough money and some of the crumbling institutions have helped like we watched the NRA fall

53:42

apart and realize like oh we have to that was our responsibility they're not doing our

53:47

responsibility for us anymore now we have to step up and do the political side we have to do the Public Relation

53:53

side we have to do some more of this ourselves I think that's helped a lot I think that's actually been really beneficial and so when I watch guys on

54:00

the left like dancing jigs cuz the NRA has gone it's like oh you don't understand those guys are in the way now

54:06

there's some room to move you should you should not be celebrating this those guys were your best ally to be perfectly honest so that's been really interesting

54:13

to watch and I think it is a combination of maturity and and prioritization that's helped so we're here at fight La

54:20

Feast we got Gabe in the background maybe everyone people singing St Patrick's breastplate which is Perfect

54:26

song for actually all parts of this conversation so far yeah perfect yeah so

54:32

as you're as you're encountering more and more Christians who are waking up to a lot of these issues what has that been

54:38

like for you guys as a company where you have people coming to you like help us with what we don't know right yeah uh I

54:46

see it happening on two sides and and it's it's really it's

54:52

daunting but uh but it's also very confirming uh and and it's encouraging

54:59

so we kind of get two groups of people coming to T-Rex um and

55:04

saying I really want to know I want more than a holster I really want to know what's going on I really know how I can help it is either guys from really young

55:13

guys who have played video games gotten into Airsoft and they find us through the guns and they say so I love guns

55:20

what's next so I love guns and what they defend what's next and it's it's great

55:26

that those guys are are are looking for that it's not just a hobby they're wanting to turn into something more than

55:32

a hobby or they're wanting to understand it more fully and I love that we're we're we're getting some of those guys

55:37

asking us those questions but on the other side um I mean the folks at this

55:42

conference are my people I grew up in home school conferences I grew up in some of these church denominations so

55:48

I'm finding more and more people who have focused on family focused on Church focused on uh taking care of their kids

55:55

focused on business coming to me saying like hey in order to in order to take better care of my community uh we need

56:00

to figure out radios and maps and we need we need to have firearms I need to be able to defend my family with with a

56:07

firearm the fact that we're getting people coming to us from both directions um is really really

56:14

encouraging and I I think that that is going to help us stay calibrated a little bit because in many ways these

56:20

two groups need each other more than they need us and if we can be a middleman and we can introduce people and connect people um that uh is a

56:29

tremendous opportunity perhaps as a Lifestyle brand as a Lifestyle brand yes yeah so um so yeah and again I

56:38

appreciate the the diversity that's there where um it's very easy for me to

56:44

get tunnel vision and to get focused on stuff if I have guys that that know a ton about the equipment that know

56:52

exactly why they want a 14.5 pin and weld AR with a particular BCM Bol

56:59

carrier group I can talk to that guy about that but if I'm also talking to a guy who has raised nine kids and built a

57:09

business and is the pastor of a church and he says hey what gun should I buy I have never owned a gun in my life what

57:14

gun should I buy if I am talking to both groups on a pretty regular basis I think

57:19

that keeps me from getting a little a little too hyperfocused in a specific area so I think it's also just good for

57:25

me right it keeps it sort of keeps a broader perspective on on things cuz you interface with so many different men

57:32

from so many different perspectives it keeps it centered on what is this really about what's the Miss yeah exactly as

57:39

opposed to this is my identity as a militia Guy this is my identity as a special forces guys well yes and there's

57:45

something higher that we should all be pointed towards now I I would love to you know use the next hour of this

57:51

podcast to talk about um Chrome lined barrels versus some of the other night riding technology that exist but but

57:57

it's it's not it's not Mission critical right uh for some people it might be yes

58:02

but but it's really important I think that we tie it back to the mission what are we trying to do and why yeah so how

58:08

does that mission take shape going forward say I mean I know that we're we're what three days out from the

58:13

election four days out that's a whole different thing I keep forgetting about the election know it's it's nice in this little like bubble for a minute but you

58:20

know regardless of the outcome next week what's what does the what does the future look like what are you guys looking I mean obviously there are a

58:27

couple very different paths yes and both of which have degrees of unpredictability right but like as you

58:33

look for the future what is it look like for you so in some ways um I don't want

58:39

to say it doesn't matter sure because it matters it matters a lot but in some ways I feel like there's two very

58:44

different directions but the initial reactions are going to be the same My

58:50

Brother David uh who's the CFO of the company said whatever happens in the election the only thing went over for

58:56

sure is half of the country is going to be matter than they've ever been maybe since the Civil War so that's a good

59:03

take uh so there will be that aspect the other thing that'll happen is regardless of which candidate gets into the White

59:10

House there are going to be uh 24 million bureaucrats that already kind of

59:15

have their own systems and agenda that are still in place and a bunch of people will get reappointed with a new cabinet

59:22

but roughly 24 million bureaucrats are going to still have the same job so there's there's that inertia and that

59:29

momentum that's that's there regardless of who gets elected but on the on the on

59:34

the flip side on the good side um it's not the election is not just for president there's all the state and

59:42

local level politicians My Hope Is that we can get more of a Community Focus as

59:47

a whole spend a little bit Les less time being distracted by the president not that it's not important but that

59:54

compared to the size of the bureaucrat Y and the responsibility that the states have and the responsibility that our

1:00:00

communities have we should really get our Focus back back there so in many

1:00:05

ways regardless of who wins the um the

1:00:10

mission is the same and the obstacles and the hurdles most of those are the same um I think that we're going to have

1:00:17

a a a good year financially because I think that there will be unrest there

1:00:22

will be people who are hurt there going to be people who are worried and I think that we will probably get orders out of

1:00:28

that sure but also I think that I think that we're going to continue to have some of the same battles uh and they'll

1:00:33

just feel a little bit different if Donald Trump is elected I think we will be hassled by the ATF a little less but

1:00:39

I think that there are you know Banks and insurance companies and we we've been debanked and deplatformed several

1:00:45

times like I think I think we actually will get more of that under a Donald Trump presidency than under Harris presidency um and I think we'll be

1:00:52

hassled by different agencies a little bit less like in general MH so in many

1:00:57

ways it's just going to be what flavor of there'll be slightly different

1:01:04

flavors of kind of the same thing and that same thing is hopefully a reminder that we need to take more responsibility

1:01:10

upon ourselves our communities and the states need to take back more responsibilities from the government

1:01:17

regardless of who's in there I think that there will be constant reminders of that and hopefully we uh we listen as

1:01:26

as men as women um as communities as States uh so we'll see the mission

1:01:33

Remains the Same amen so just one more quick question so you work with two of your brothers yes high level at a

1:01:40

successful Corporation how does that work you guys just take go out back and settle things

1:01:47

like like you did when you were kids so We've joked about that like we should just have boxy gloves yeah yeah so so we

1:01:54

work with uh so yeah so there's there's four owners of the company Three

1:02:00

Brothers and one brother-in-law and then other family members are involved in the company uh members of our church are

1:02:06

involved in the company like there's there is every opportunity yeah there's every opportunity for messiness yeah

1:02:13

that you can imagine uh and now the company is big enough we have 90 employees so we have let people go whose

1:02:21

parents still work in the company like any any any uh messiness you can imagine

1:02:26

we are in a small town and we have enough people and we have two churches and we have multiple like this is any

1:02:33

opportunity for awkwardness that you can imagine we have the opportunity for so I

1:02:40

think the tendency in Corporate America is to uh avoid messing by avoiding

1:02:45

relationship sure it's so much easier cleaner but you you miss all the

1:02:50

benefits that come with with relationship and so I would I would encourage people to lean into

1:02:57

relationship as opposed to out of relationship and work through the messiness cuz it's also inevitable um

1:03:04

people will be messy that is unavoidable uh if even if there's only one person in

1:03:11

solitary confinement he can develop schizophrenia and argue with himself like it's just going to happen so um I

1:03:17

won't say that we're always the best example of dealing with the messiness but I do think that one of the big lessons

1:03:24

is lean into relationships not out of them uh don't

1:03:29

be afraid of the messiness but also know that yeah it'll be there well there's also a standard above all of you that

1:03:36

you're all accountable to so in a secular world you get a bunch of brothers or sisters running a company together if they're not all accountable

1:03:42

to one standard that holds them all that is above them all that can get messy in a real bad way yes but if you're all

1:03:48

accountable to God's word that's like okay that keeps us in line because we know we have a judge in heaven that is a

1:03:54

that is a mass that's a Fant fantastic point I really appreciate that but I would say I'm reading a book Oxford

1:04:00

press has a book on family-owned businesses family-owned businesses are not uncommon a huge amount of the wealth

1:04:07

in the nation is within family-owned businesses obviously there's gigantic public corporations and gigantic

1:04:14

publicly traded corporations that but there are Untold millions of

1:04:19

family-owned businesses some of which are tiny some of which are you know medium-sized companies that that control

1:04:26

a lot of wealth and employ a lot of people and so this is something that has been a strength in American companies

1:04:32

for a very long time so there are benefits to this there are ways to make it work and the way that

1:04:39

you just mentioned being accountable to each other as brothers in Christ and seeing seeing each other as under

1:04:45

Authority is the best way to handle it um but having those kinds of

1:04:51

relationships uh building that kind of trust over time is something that I think again you you miss all that if you

1:04:58

just decide you're going to work with random people cuz it's cleaner somehow right am yeah well this has been

1:05:04

fantastic I appreciate the time to talk to me about your business and this been great and gun culture and all of that

1:05:09

yeah well I would love to say uh soon I want to have you on my podcast uh

1:05:16

because uh uh I want to ask you questions youve probably answered many times on other podcasts but I want to have you on my podcast because it's

1:05:22

easier than listening to podcasts if we just have the conversation and uh the thing that I want to get into is some of

1:05:28

your cultural observations in other things uh gun culture is fascinating uh

1:05:33

it's really interesting to watch it develop as an anthro uh it's just a just a interesting

1:05:39

thing that somebody ought to be studying like at an academic level um but you've you've looked into a bunch of other

1:05:45

fascinating cultures and other countries and and done historical study into those and so I want to pick your brain on some

1:05:50

of those so hopefully we can do that soon I would love that and I'm happy to answer a lot of the same questions over

1:05:55

and over again because it gives me the chance to think them through in New in new ways so I've told the story of my

1:06:02

testimony many times how was introduced to Christ at Burning Man which is a whole big thing I've gotten into not

1:06:07

many people have that testimony I as far as I know there might be just one person

1:06:13

who's actually followed up and become a Christian as a result of that oh wow as far as I know there may be more but but

1:06:20

as many times I've heard this story I've heard stories of like oh there are people who made professions of faith at

1:06:25

Burning Man which is not exactly the same thing it's an emotional environment people are tempted to get caught up in

1:06:31

the moment and say something and then they get back into real life and it never actually lands in their lives to

1:06:37

the form of like joining a church you know getting baptized Etc so as far as I know I might be the only I may not be

1:06:43

but as far as I know I might be the only one and it's funny that you mention that because I just I never had never put the

1:06:50

pieces together it's because when I met this Christian Ministry group I actually pursued them so I met them at Burning

1:06:56

Man I had that experience with them then they came to Carson City Nevada like two months later and I drove up to see them

1:07:03

like cuz I knew cuz I wanted to see them again then I went to their um I went to their houses for Christmas in cordal Idaho I kept in touch with them while I

1:07:10

was traveling so it wasn't just something that I H that happened and we kept in touch and I checked in with them

1:07:16

5 years later it was that I pursued relationship with them and it I only realized that through telling that story

1:07:22

so many times like oh wait there are some pie so helps me to tell to answer the questions cuz I see things in new

1:07:29

ways we have our we have the narrative that we develop out about our lives which is true but it can sometimes just

1:07:36

the way our minds work leave out details like oh I'd never thought about that before so I'm happy to talk about this stuff oh yeah I mean my life is a whole

1:07:44

bunch of weird crazy completely unrelated random things and then in high

1:07:49

side you're like oh I think God was trying to teach me something there and only now do I realize his providential

1:07:57

goodness that I was avoided that but was also there to see that yes so you get it

1:08:04

yeah he he led me to take a look at that I got to see it and then he snatched me out of it okay you're done yeah like

1:08:10

yeah so well I'm looking forward to that conversation already that should be a great conversation yeah anthropological

1:08:16

uh examinations of other cultures and our own histories sounds like it sounds like a white paper or a PhD thesis or

1:08:21

something crazy like that that does sound like well I've had the chance to observe develop Nations developing

1:08:27

nations and Nations that will never develop right right and so that's they call that the first second and third

1:08:32

world but I find that developed nations are like the United States Japan you know nations in Europe Etc developing I

1:08:40

would probably say China India Peru is a great example at least back when I was there and then like an an island nation

1:08:47

like Vanuatu in the South Pacific will never develop that's just not what's going to happen there so to see the

1:08:53

world in those two perspectives backstage age is a it's it taught me a lot it helped me appreciate America th%

1:09:00

yeah uh another interesting conversation is uh undevelopment countries countries

1:09:06

who are losing stuff um yeah that's something I want to dig into because there's so many different factors to

1:09:13

look into I mean as complicated as gun culture 2.0 is to try to Define and map

1:09:18

and like just figure out who's even in there uh National and civilizational

1:09:25

culture development up or development down is tricky to track yeah yes it is there's a

1:09:30

lot of that right now yeah yeah very good well thanks again will I appreciate it tremendously and uh yeah we'll keep

1:09:36

talking offline and then can't wait to have you on T-Rex talk sounds great uh what would where would you like to send

1:09:41

people to find out more about you and what you do so the the company T-Rex arms uh can be found at tx-

1:09:49

arms.com uh and you can see all the stuff that we sell stuff we manufacture stuff we design stuff that we detail and

1:09:55

then we create a lot of educational materials some of which may be helpful for people that want to learn more about shooting more about radio more about

1:10:02

things that are sort of adjacent to gun culture 2.0 and then um we also have a podcast T-Rex talk and everything can be

1:10:09

found from the main website though that's probably the best place for people to go simpler easier and um if

1:10:15

the election goes one way or possibly the other uh you might already be looking for some of the stuff that we sell just just possible you know go

1:10:23

there anyway it's there will be a Black Friday sale if you're already looking for it uh maybe it'll be easier for you to find that's the other thing we want

1:10:29

to do is not just like send people to our our website because we want to make money but we honestly believe that we

1:10:36

have brought our products to a high level we've curated the stuff that we carry from other people really well

1:10:43

um the goal was to create a website where we could send people when they had questions like I'm new to this how do I

1:10:49

get started that's the goal and I still feel like we have a long ways to go but we have a thing if if if you want the

1:10:57

best kidex holster within a certain criteria we are

1:11:03

the people and I I truly believe that that is the case and if you have specific needs or looking for specific

1:11:08

stuff I'm confident we know who makes that too and we will send you in that direction where our customer service

1:11:15

guys can do that so so we we are in many ways a customer service first company uh

1:11:20

and then we make stuff that needs to be made and we curate stuff that that people should know about out and then we

1:11:26

make educational material around it so yeah we're always trying to figure out what kind of company we are so yeah so

1:11:32

visit the the T-Rex DS website and let us know in the comments what kind of company we

1:11:38

are please do that thank you so much Isaac I appreciate yeah

1:11:44