Show Notes
In today's episode I interviewed Alison Armstrong, a speaker, thought leader, friend, and bestselling author of The Queen's Code. Almost 9 years after publishing the Queen's Code, she's released the audiobook. It helps us hear and FEEL the way we could be, as women and men, together.
Me and Alison Discussed:
Alison's journey to write and record the Queen's Code
The difference between needing vs. being needy
How Alison used to treat men at parties
The importance of discovering our ultimatums;
Why we should all go a bit easier on "nice guys”
Finally, stories about her relationship with the man in her life, Dan
Show Notes
In today's episode I interviewed Alison Armstrong, a speaker, thought leader, friend, and bestselling author of The Queen's Code. Almost 9 years after publishing the Queen's Code, she's released the audiobook. It helps us hear and FEEL the way we could be, as women and men, together.
Me and Alison Discussed:
Alison's journey to write and record the Queen's Code
The difference between needing vs. being needy
How Alison used to treat men at parties
The importance of discovering our ultimatums;
Why we should all go a bit easier on "nice guys”
Finally, stories about her relationship with the man in her life, Dan
Show Notes
In today's episode I interviewed Alison Armstrong, a speaker, thought leader, friend, and bestselling author of The Queen's Code. Almost 9 years after publishing the Queen's Code, she's released the audiobook. It helps us hear and FEEL the way we could be, as women and men, together.
Me and Alison Discussed:
Alison's journey to write and record the Queen's Code
The difference between needing vs. being needy
How Alison used to treat men at parties
The importance of discovering our ultimatums;
Why we should all go a bit easier on "nice guys”
Finally, stories about her relationship with the man in her life, Dan
Show Notes
In today's episode I interviewed Alison Armstrong, a speaker, thought leader, friend, and bestselling author of The Queen's Code. Almost 9 years after publishing the Queen's Code, she's released the audiobook. It helps us hear and FEEL the way we could be, as women and men, together.
Me and Alison Discussed:
Alison's journey to write and record the Queen's Code
The difference between needing vs. being needy
How Alison used to treat men at parties
The importance of discovering our ultimatums;
Why we should all go a bit easier on "nice guys”
Finally, stories about her relationship with the man in her life, Dan
Guest's Links
CONNECT WITH ALISON ARMSTRONG http://alisonarmstrong.com
Guest's Links
CONNECT WITH ALISON ARMSTRONG http://alisonarmstrong.com
Guest's Links
CONNECT WITH ALISON ARMSTRONG http://alisonarmstrong.com
Guest's Links
CONNECT WITH ALISON ARMSTRONG http://alisonarmstrong.com
Transcript
0:00
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual vibration
0:08
able to think thoughts and not others the whole capacities that come from
0:13
feeling truly safe nothing contributes to that the same way as one man that you
0:21
know is for you [Music]
0:30
hello and welcome to the Renaissance of men podcast my name is Will Spencer my guest this week is a speaker thought
0:36
leader and best-selling author of the keys to the kingdom and the Queen's code Allison Armstrong in 2018 as I was
0:44
discovering that the men's movement was much bigger than I realized reading Donovan and tomasi and listening to
0:50
Mickler and Peterson I also discovered Allison's books and I saw myself reflected in them to a degree that I
0:57
still find striking it's quite a thing to realize that a woman has just as many good things to say about men as men do
1:03
and perhaps even more but that's the Allison Armstrong and she's quite a thing too and now almost nine years
1:09
after publishing the Queen's code in print she's finally released it in audiobook version and not a moment too
1:15
soon because whether or not people know to call it that the great reconciliation is happening and the Queen's code
1:21
audiobook is here to help us hear and most importantly feel the ways we could be as men and women together in our our
1:28
conversation Allison and I discussed her journey to write and record the Queen's code the difference between needing
1:35
versus being needy how Allison used to treat men at parties long before she wrote the Queen's code the importance of
1:41
discovering our ultimatums or the things in relationship we're not willing to live without why we should all go a bit
1:47
easier on the nice guys and finally stories about her relationship with the man in her life Dan who even shows up at
1:54
the very end to say hi if you enjoy the Renaissance of men podcast thank you don't forget to hit that like button and
2:01
subscribe and share this episode so we can reach more men and women so please join me in welcoming this week's guest
2:06
on the Renaissance of men podcast the best-selling author and voice over artist of the Queen's code my friend
2:12
Allison Armstrong hey Alice and welcome back to the podcast thank you I'm so glad to
2:20
glad to be well I want to say congratulations you are now uh Far and Away my number one podcast of all time
2:25
first first podcast across 5 000 downloads which is pretty incredible when you think about it was like four
2:31
four hours long so it's really cool to see like they'll
2:37
just spike out of nowhere like hundreds of downloads in a month like someone must share it somewhere it's it's really
2:42
cool to see that just how how long the legs have been for that conversation wow well I I mention you a lot as well
2:51
so I don't know if people go looking at that point but um we have extraordinary conversations ever
2:58
since the first run for the Renaissance of men that's right that's right it seems to be a habit
3:07
well congratulations also on the release of the Queen's code audiobook which I finished listening to and you know as I
3:13
mentioned I've read the print the Kindle version I read the book a couple times but hearing it read in your voice
3:22
Blended a whole new shade of meaning to some of the interactions between the
3:27
characters your characterizations of them and and the meaning behind the words to really
3:33
um it brought it to life in a very different way from your imagination rather than just me imposing my
3:38
imagination on it and both are equally valid um so what was that process like for you recording the audiobook
3:48
it was it was intense it was emotional as you can hear my voice sometimes it
3:54
was yeah um there are a couple of things that were
4:01
on it like how did that happen but it goes back to
4:08
um as you know I started studying men in 1991. right right
4:15
um the the scene in the first chapter of keys of the Queen's Community actually
4:20
happened but the scene in the in the first chapter the things but it it happened to
4:26
me my my colleague co-worker kind of friend was called a bug phone and
4:34
um and I had the division that Kimberly is expressing and and then as I realized
4:43
you know I oh my gosh I'm really a friend from I'm a very successful
4:48
I prided myself in the way I thought of it as getting men to show their true
4:56
colors yeah um within like 10 days
5:01
yeah industrial frog farmer oh my gosh I did not want to fall in love again and
5:09
um and so I you know I had come to the conclusion that men are cons and
5:15
um and I want to reveal a con before I fell for it and it
5:22
it didn't include any that I had anything to do with the version of every man I was getting I thought that was the
5:29
real notion which I now equate to kicking a dog and then the dog when it
5:35
bites you or it runs away or it runs away and invites you and bites you and then runs away all those versions can
5:42
happen and um but this question popped into my head as I was sitting there
5:47
confronting it and the question was what if men are responding to women and and you know I've talked about that
5:54
question right and it's worth listening to those conversations in the in your in the podcast but when we did before
6:01
but that's really the beginning of a lot of strangeness that I'm only now coming to
6:08
terms with strangeness strangeness like that question popped into my head
6:16
where did that question come from that's always a question right yes yes and
6:22
that's what I've been delving into and and including other questions that have
6:31
guided my research that I thought I thought of that
6:36
question maybe the question thought of you
6:41
could be yes yes and but in this in the story of the Queen's code other strangeness I could never I never
6:49
questioned like these questions popping in my head what am I responding to women and then when Greg did something that
6:56
was just outrageous to me the question what if there's a good reason for that
7:01
um which led to all my research on that everybody everybody man or woman only
7:08
ever does what's important to them yeah ever and and to all the things we
7:15
think we should do that we haven't done they just haven't risen to the level of importance right and and that happened
7:22
because Greg you know knocked over a blender of mine left it broken on the floor
7:27
single Focus too extreme he was trying to get he was trying to catching that plane and um okay I get it yeah and then
7:36
what if no one's misbehaving including you right there's another one that popped in and then a few years ago
7:43
just right out of my mouth honor yourself first or always lost
7:48
and so these kinds of things that popped in right and
7:54
um so that's where my research began right what if men are responding to women and within
8:01
um that was 1981 within a year of that I had
8:07
um been asked to stop castrating men literally put that way um and had done had done so
8:15
um seeing what happens when we don't interact with men by handling their
8:21
power and then we'll talk um I had met Greg I my not yet husband
8:26
but soon to be um and I come to the conclusion that the
8:32
things that I learned in that year had to do shift that I I had to write a book
8:38
I have to put this in a book um but I
8:44
I talked to somebody about it and he told me how to tell whether I had enough material for a book and um if you have
8:50
more than 10 chapter titles you can do a book and I did definitely a
8:57
year in and it was shortly after that that I was
9:03
um meeting Greg's family and talking to his
9:09
um his sister of mine I could tell that her marriage was in trouble I've been watching the way they're interacting I
9:15
was watching you she talked about him I could tell like discussing he's the kingdom I could tell if he had become a
9:22
king and she hadn't caught up with that his needs were very different than the
9:28
20 years that they had been to raised a family together and she was an Adaptive and this this was gonna this was having
9:36
a huge effect and it could get worse and I I tried to tell her about it I tried
9:41
to tell her about the stages of development and she basically wasn't listening she
9:47
just didn't care and then I switched over to telling her story
9:52
and it's just this funny little story a friend of mine and I made up um called The Princess and the swamp rat
9:58
[Laughter] all right all right let's see where this
10:06
goes let's go back dude if you wanted to hear the story of The Princess and the song but I'll tell you the story but all of a
10:13
sudden I kind of do I all of a sudden I had a complete attention and and we were shopping together and
10:19
you know girls can talk and shop and but now she's paying attention and then her husband comes to pick us up give us a
10:25
ride back to the family reunion and and she's like sketch Allison's telling me the story let her finish and that's when
10:34
I got it oh how whatever this book is it needs to be a stolen
10:41
and oh okay yeah that's where it came from this is this has got to be a story
10:46
because we can hear things when we're not in the hot seat right when someone's saying you you are
10:53
doing this and don't do this this or this it's very hard to learn it's very hard to let our guards down it's very
11:00
hard to let our point of view be altered so
11:05
actually that the the next day we were driving home
11:10
and I was writing like the story started showing up and I was writing it
11:16
literally on a shopping list a brown paper shopping list oh wow it was just
11:23
coming out and I was writing writing writing and as I did that which was ended up just being the first couple of
11:29
chapters I don't even not even chapter like paragraphs and I don't even know where they ended up because what happened when I came to write the book
11:36
but it became obvious as I was doing that that I didn't know how to read it
11:41
but I already used what I learned about men against men that hurt me badly once
11:48
I found out how you really motivated Kryptonite and and that I
11:55
I needed to write a book that at that time I thought it was just for
12:01
women I didn't know well how much it would affect me and
12:06
I needed to write it and confirm oh my gosh the whole other thing we could talk
12:12
about but it yeah I'm sure we will since you since you listened to it but it read it in and listened to it and
12:18
so as I I realized that I needed to know more I needed to know more about
12:24
one what triggered women to masturbate nothing and
12:30
and to how they did it all the different ways that they did it and three and
12:36
maybe most importantly how they Justified yep yep
12:43
I needed to know a whole lot more about that and then fourth what are you doing
12:48
today right since the masculation comes from fear and frustration
12:53
what are you doing instead how do women emasculate men because they think that's
12:59
the only way to get what they need and even though it doesn't work they don't have an alternative so I had to figure
13:06
out all four of those things and that's when I told my best friend
13:12
um I think I need to do a workshop in order to learn how to teach this so that
13:21
I can write the book and
13:27
so we we did that starting in January of 1995. I didn't know it would take
13:35
almost 15 years of doing those workshops before one evening I knew I knew how to
13:43
write the book like like I I'd gotten enough of all those four things in all
13:48
these different expressions from thousands of women and contributions of
13:54
hundreds of men I knew I finally knew how to write it and so I wrote a book I
14:00
wrote a book proposal right chapter by chapter and this will be about this and that'll be about that and then we you
14:07
know went me and my agent went to New York and we had a bidding you know for
14:12
the for the publication of the book and that's very very exciting to talk about it but it does for your ego because of
14:17
bidding on your book and and you know and I chose the editor that
14:23
I loved the most about the most resonance with and and then sat down
14:29
to write the book and then that's when it got really strange which had happened
14:35
before she's the kingdom but I I didn't trust it to happen again
14:40
and that was you know I sat down to write and it literally occurs like it's
14:46
it's like this big but this big and it's right here and a
14:52
movie screen opened and a movie started playing and I started typing
14:59
and I didn't know the word channeling then and I still don't trust that word
15:04
it seems weird yeah to me and I what the heck is that I just know that
15:10
[Music] that no one can write a 96 000 word book
15:16
in three weeks it's it's pretty fast yeah and I oh I didn't read it I just
15:24
watched the movie and typed as fast as I could and it it was weird it was like trying to write a screenplay from a
15:32
movie right so then backwards backwards yeah just trying to describe what I was
15:40
seeing like like how do you describe this
15:45
how do you know you describe that yeah and and yeah and then it was it was also
15:53
really you know he's the kingdom which was what
15:59
I knew I could write at the time years before like 15 years ago a lot of many
16:04
years before 2003 I that ran as a movie too and that's
16:10
like 42 000 words and it I it all got typed up in like eight dates but I I
16:17
kind of forgot how weird it was never
16:22
what I know this is well I'm coming more to terms with the
16:29
strangeness of my life and because you know became stranger um when my husband died and and so
16:39
it's actually been um stunning and you had asked what it was like to do the audiobook
16:46
so I've done three book clubs I think before that two or three book clubs at
16:51
The Shift Network which meant I re-read the book to prepare for every session
16:57
every chapter with with the participants and even reading the book was there kept
17:05
being things that surprised me I didn't know that was taught in this book I didn't know we did that in this book I
17:12
didn't I don't remember that happening and and then when I was recording the
17:18
audiobook two things one was it was
17:24
so much more intense like like I just I I just
17:32
conveying the story reading the story consistent with how I watched it right
17:40
um I realized oh my gosh the emotion the the pain The Joy the struggle like
17:49
everything is so much more intense in me reading the story to to everybody
17:57
and and I was like matching the movie that I
18:02
watched right and the movie was Vivid for me as I was reading it even though
18:08
every part I was reading I didn't remember was in there right and and when I was typing up the
18:17
movie like people have asked me so how did you pick these eight characters I did it no
18:24
why did you have the story evolved like this I did it couldn't tell you
18:31
I did it I transcribed the moon I did all the research I mean I did everything
18:39
in in the Queen's code is validated by real life research that
18:45
I did is it anything in there that is outrageous outlandish Unthinkable no
18:51
it's all based on real research and the characters in the story
18:59
are just themselves and which was then what happened that was really now this
19:06
is odd upon Odd as I was um as I was doing the audio recording and
19:13
sometimes I just have to stop because I was overwhelmed with emotion and there
19:19
was one particular time that I just I I lost it do you know
19:26
um oh my gosh um just so you're not distracted by
19:33
wondering uh it's the part when Bert confronts Claudia about how exhausted
19:41
teaching it is for her and what you see him happening to her and she as he's
19:49
making he wants to make a deal as he's as he's making a deal with her
19:58
um and telling her what she she needs and what it would provide um at the end of that you might remember
20:05
he says I'm not done meeting you you know remember that yeah
20:13
I I don't know how long it took and how many times I had to retake that to get through it because I didn't know that
20:20
that was in the Queen's code and that was what I was literally screaming at
20:27
Greg while I was trying to bring him back from the heart
20:35
if I was doing my version of superior that's watched on TV what it didn't
20:41
matter if I could have done it right it was a triple explosion in his chest but that's what I was yelling at him I'm not
20:47
done anything yet I just reading that in a book oh oh my
20:54
gosh and so that wasn't even another strange part
21:01
I wanted to tell you the other Strange point was and I don't know how this happens how
21:07
does a movie change so as I was recording the audiobook
21:14
you know this about me right I have this thing about truth right and Truth has a
21:20
Inlet they can't authenticity has a has a feel to it and
21:27
um what I call Old brain when someone's not present when someone's not present
21:33
and they're just speaking rotely about something they're used to speaking about or words that don't really mean anything
21:41
to them anymore they don't stand out it has this quality I call I call Old brain it's kind of it's fake okay and I can
21:49
hear it and people aren't learned right when they're when they're an old brain they're not learning who needs all that
21:54
new girlfriend I see I see yeah so so I just I just had this feel first up and
22:02
it took a long time for me to figure out that it only happened when
22:07
Claudia was speaking and I had to retake Claudius parts
22:16
um it ended up taking usually four times I would have to redo it before it had
22:24
the resonance of what she meant yep that makes sense yeah you live in that material well what
22:32
was strange was that I would do it the way that I heard it
22:38
the way that I heard it when I first transcribed the book I would say it that way and it wouldn't be right and I'd say
22:46
it again and so on here I'll say it again and always when it was finally right Claudia had changed in the 10
22:55
years since I watched the movie Claudia changed she was both more
23:01
intense more playful and more compassionate
23:06
then then the person I watched in a movie
23:13
how does that how does that happen but but I kept doing it until it felt
23:21
right and and it was delightful to me to see what had happened to her
23:28
some people might say that's also happened to me that was going to be my question
23:33
well that's another thing that's odd about the Queen's code is you know when I started studying men I
23:41
was Melissa I I was that awful
23:48
incomprehensible it right was that hurt I was that bitter I
23:54
was that vengeful and antagonistic I I was
24:00
Melissa and then and then I became Kimberly when I found out I was a frog
24:05
farmer and got curious right um and Karen I never really was Karen I
24:13
just taught a lot of kittens right um but then here here I was reading this
24:20
last year and I had become more cloudier
24:26
got it 30 years of teaching this material and the vastness right because
24:32
I've never stopped researching um
24:38
so I just kept thinking as I was recording
24:43
it that I I wanted it just kept I just kept hearing I want to be there for people I want to be there for people and
24:51
because how intense it is and how quickly you get to chapter three [Laughter]
24:58
I had months before I got to chapter three in my life when I was studying
25:04
yes yes yeah folks are having like four hours of
25:11
listening to the book before they get to chapter three Inner Path to completely
25:19
alter the way that they're interacting with themselves and others and and I
25:25
just kept thinking I got I gotta do that for them I want to be there for them and I um I just started last week the second
25:33
time I caught your Quince card Journey because everyone has a different Journey now I'm looking forward to hearing about
25:38
yours and everyone's is different and I just wanted to be there to answer their
25:45
questions right just like like Karen and Kimberly got to ask all their questions before
25:51
they took the big the laying down the sword I right yeah I wanted my people to get to do
25:59
that and I did it over the summer and I just started doing it for the second time because it's it's such an amazing
26:05
thing to do and and I'm I'm still learning from the klinska that's what
26:13
that's another strange thing yeah me too me too your third time my third time
26:23
so tell me about it my Queen's code Journey follow-up question yeah yeah and before we do that is there a do
26:30
you have a fan in there or something like that oh let me fix that let me okay okay good no problem sorry about that
26:37
that's okay that's believe me I've had way worse situations to work with in
26:43
podcasts before so this was this was an easy fix Okay so
26:48
um you know my you asked about my Queen's code journey and yeah there's a couple there's a
26:55
couple things I want to point out before I answer that question first is that
27:00
um you started writing and thinking about writing about about men in the 90s now most people who are in what we call
27:08
the Men's movement now didn't start doing that until like 2005 2010 I mean
27:14
you had guys like Robert Bly and Warren Farrell and and uh Douglas uh uh Douglas
27:20
Wilson and and Robert Moore Douglas Gillette sorry um doing it in the early 90s but you
27:26
started as far back as then and I don't know that that's appreciated enough that you've been doing this longer than most
27:32
men have been doing it which I think is is pretty remarkable so that you've had 30 or so years to develop which I think
27:38
is what gives your work the power that it does and um and it's so strange that you've been doing it for so long but you
27:45
go talk to men about like no no I've never heard of Allison Armstrong but then there's all these other people over here who have so you know that's always
27:51
very cool and then I think the other thing is that you know the The Queen's code audiobook
27:57
is what almost 11 hours long just over 10 hours long yeah right and so you're talking about
28:03
multiple takes I mean I can imagine it must have taken you 40 hours or so probably to try and record it I mean at
28:10
least you know if you're trying Claudia over and over again and Claudia talks a lot in the book as it turns out
28:17
um I don't know I'd have to look at the bill from the sound engineer
28:24
I just know that there were there are whole parts that I didn't have to do multiple things
28:31
got it it was usually just climbing okay um and
28:39
[Music] yeah it it it probably I'm trying to
28:46
think how many weekends do you spend doing that there's probably about 20 hours of me recording but then we I had
28:53
multiple people listened and um and and went back and did retakes and
29:02
things to um and just things that like squeaky chairs there's no such thing as I'm not
29:09
screened here no such thing even in a professional Sound Studio yes yeah so so
29:17
there were there are a lot of people who participated in the quality of it and
29:22
you know had them um the last one had literally Bose
29:28
headphones on and she was I was having her listen for anything that would
29:34
distract people from The Experience they were in happened to them right
29:41
had someone munching next to you with some popcorn in a movie right right I for some reason I guess I
29:48
had pictured you recording it at home but if you actually went into an audio like a professional studio that makes
29:54
sense that makes sense too that must have been a very different experience actually because I could picture you at
30:00
home in in your home studio or something like that recording it privately but to be in a professional studio recording
30:06
that stuff in front of other people must have been that must have been an experience I have to ask about that
30:13
because I just pictured you doing it alone and being able to have your own kind of experience re-encountering and
30:18
trying to embody some of the things the characters are saying and the story itself but it was actually a shared
30:24
experience in a way like that must have been that must have been a whole other thing
30:29
well it it habits its moments um his name is Steve Boynton and
30:36
um Dan found him for me he did a great job the audio sounds incredible yeah
30:42
thank you he he was amazing I never met him before scheduling to do this
30:50
um it's actually what had me end up moving one of the things that the impetus for moving the steamboat oh was
30:58
I already needed to be here for periods of time to do the recording and um and
31:05
so I moved here in the middle of it based on other things and uh
31:10
and so he was he was someone who didn't know me he didn't know my work or
31:16
anything about it um he didn't even really follow along in
31:21
this story um in the beginning she was just being technical right and and it wasn't until
31:30
later on um one of the times that that the emotion
31:38
um came through I think it was Kimberly's emotion that came through and I and I said I said I I think I need to
31:46
do that again and and he actually said it sounded right like what happened
31:53
but but then something would happen it was very much further along in the bucket and he's like I don't think you
32:01
need to it fits and search the way he listened to change that's great
32:06
um but he was present for I mean there literally were times I just broke down and silent and and he just he's waiting
32:15
until I recovered myself um
32:27
part of what would have me end up be emotional will is that
32:33
is that however they do it um those the characters those people
32:40
exist and um when I was transcribing to the
32:47
kingdom like one morning I I woke up and
32:53
um I think you you you're right he's the Kingdom right or did you listen to it I read that first okay good yeah I like it
33:00
for people to read it first but they don't they don't have to and um so that was also a movie right and I
33:07
didn't decide on those four characters and and then for them those four to go
33:13
on and become eight but when I was writing he's the kingdom like I woke up one morning and I knew
33:21
that today was the day that Karen was going to see the table right the table
33:27
okay this table keeps getting referred to right yeah and um
33:32
and I just knew there was something special about this table but I didn't know what it was because
33:38
because I'm just transcribing the movie and I woke up that morning I thought oh
33:44
Karen's gonna see the table today and I said out loud do you think you should show it to me
33:51
and then boom I saw the tape right and and just
33:58
oh my gosh right I didn't see Kimberly's chair so Kimberly saw hurt you oh and
34:07
and tell her and Karen and Bert were standing in front of the chair and she was asking him about it right and why he
34:12
did it I didn't know any of that and but what happened
34:20
what happens is is that I can check in with them so I'm about in the first trimester
34:29
pregnant with the sequel movement and
34:35
um and it's tempting for me to see if I can only do it in an
34:40
audiobook instead of a pre-book because now I know how different
34:47
my conveyance of this story is from someone reading it to themselves and
34:54
um this beautiful woman in South Africa her name is Candice um
34:59
what she expressed to me and talking about having read the Queen's bed which she did a few years ago and then
35:05
listening to it she said and it was so shocking to me I can't
35:11
quote her accurately I need to go back and listen to it but it was to the effect of she said Allison I realized
35:17
that I didn't read the men's parts
35:24
to myself the way that you do because of my prejudice against men that
35:33
they would never be that I think she said that sincere or that
35:40
emotion and I and that's when I realized oh my
35:46
gosh everyone who's read the Queen's code since it was published in 2012
35:52
right everyone which is I don't somewhere over a hundred
35:58
thousand people have read it to themselves we don't know the exact number because right when we originally
36:05
printed it we made it possible for people to download it and print out as many copies as they want
36:12
oops I mean cool but oops it wasn't a Hoops I did it on purpose oh okay okay
36:18
yeah I you know I've expressed it as uh you know my goal is to be those
36:24
pirated author what you wish for well
36:31
I I am and people actually I'll say how did you how did you find out about me and they'll be like I'm sorry
36:39
my friend made a copy of the NSYNC CD and gave it to me okay it's cool
36:48
originally published please to the kingdom we people um people got a PDF
36:55
and it came with a letter that said um well we hope you'll let your friends
37:01
and family buy their own copy of Tuesday Kingdom if you just can't help it I
37:07
forgive you in advance I just would say
37:16
and I don't know how many people did that but I'm a messenger right so get the message
37:22
out and people passing secret notes so sometimes one of the best ways to do it and
37:29
anyhow my point was where I started out with is I can I can check in I can check
37:35
in with the storm and it's like they give me movie trailers
37:42
of the of what's to come oh
37:47
there we go [Laughter] yes yes and so I knew before recording
37:55
the audiobook last year I knew that the next book starts a year after the
38:02
Queen's code minutes it's it's been it's been a year and and
38:09
I know it starts with the characters reflecting back on all that happened for
38:14
them in that year and how excited they are now that they the the lessons
38:22
um yeah so there's things that I know are going to happen that colored me
38:30
recording the audio oh sort of like you were foreshadowing almost in a way well I just knew but
38:38
when I originally transcribed it I didn't know that that was going to
38:43
happen now I know things that are going to happen that I didn't know and it changed
38:51
um yeah well I think it's you asked me about my Queen's code journey and I'm actually
38:57
really enjoying hearing about your Queen's code Journey right because most
39:02
people don't really have well I can't say that but you know it's a book your books profoundly impacted me
39:10
and um and I want to talk about that in a second but it's really amazing to hear the way that your own books have
39:16
impacted you and and I think that's the thing that really came through in listening to the
39:23
audiobook was that I know you and we've spent a lot of time talking and I could listen into the audiobook and I could I
39:30
could hear inflections in your voice and the way that you would say things I was like okay I bet that was a pretty meaningful kind of moment or hear you
39:38
smiling in some ways and it was like okay and so so I got a hint of it but to
39:43
hear the way that it's evolved for you over 30 or so years since your initial
39:48
being called a frog farmer and you told me that that was a real story and and
39:54
um the story about the snap shirts right right
40:00
yeah yeah okay so can you tell can you tell that story real quick because I
40:06
think it really it's like a point A to point B C D kind of thing where it's
40:12
like to imagine to know you now and to read the ways that you write and think
40:17
and teach about men and and to read the way that you to hear you tell the story of the way that you were yeah it's one
40:25
of those things like how does a person get from there to from from point A to point B so if you tell the snapshot
40:31
story because I think I think it'll really impact a lot of people to hear that
40:36
um oh boy well I don't know if I gave you this
40:41
background when I told it to them um
40:47
so I always 17 and by then I'd already
40:53
concluded that men are bigger and stronger and they'll hurt them
41:01
and so I'd already unconsciously taken up
41:09
disempowerment and and my
41:15
Forte if you will um
41:20
[Laughter] Forte and disempowering Men exactly so
41:28
if I forte in this empowering men was keeping men off balance
41:35
hmm so um yeah it can feel yourself into that's
41:42
a certain way of being disempowered so it wasn't it was rarely a direct hit
41:49
it was just a sense that if I could tell when a man was on tilt like tilt like
41:54
just tilted on one foot again couldn't attack I felt safe when he couldn't
42:01
get his bearings when he couldn't to piss back together that's when I felt
42:07
safe and so the way that it manifested in
42:16
1978 was going to parties and I um I had
42:23
been challenged uh by a friend to not drink
42:28
and um and so I wasn't I I was at a I mean
42:33
people 17 year old shouldn't be drinking anyway but never mind that
42:38
so I so I wasn't drinking and I would do it even when I was drinking I I so I
42:45
carried I had a bottle of beer I filled it with water but I had a bottle of beer because I was tired of people asking me
42:51
why I wasn't drinking and um and it was the era of you know of
42:59
Urban Cowboy and snap shirts and actually wearing I'm
43:05
wearing one I'm wearing one I didn't plan this
43:11
didn't plan it yeah and I yeah and I had a particular um
43:18
disdain if you will for athletes um to me they're in the most full of
43:25
themselves the most like mean and inconsiderate and and so they were like
43:32
they were my Target and um and I think at that particular party
43:39
I think I got at least three like a couple of swimmers you know oh man
43:45
[Laughter] and I as you know I I would walk up to
43:52
them and they'd have a beer in their hand and I'd ask them could they please hold my beer and they would go okay and
43:58
they'd reach out take my beer now they have both hands full and I would just reach out and go
44:04
and snap all the snaps on their shirt and I actually was shocked the first
44:11
time it had been because these were it might be these were peacocks right Easter yeah these were
44:18
these young men who walked around like I'm all that and so when I you know
44:25
ripped open their shirt revealing their pecs and abs that they worked so hard on I expected them to be I thought they'd
44:33
be cool about it right but when they weren't when instead they went like this
44:39
two beers in the beers foaming out trying to conceal themselves
44:46
um yeah I thought it was hilarious and and I felt safe and I felt like I put these
44:54
I'll spare the word I had a bad word for them I yeah I put
45:00
them in their place and I just thought that I said after that and go on with what I was doing and
45:07
it's funny you asked me to tell it to you well because because I mean knowing what I know now and how
45:17
how much that um that how much the posture right how
45:22
much the posture that I interpreted as such egotism
45:29
um is really more the posture of a warrior on guard
45:34
and part of being on guard is to reveal nothing that could be used
45:40
against you and and women don't know that if you
45:48
share something meaningful to you with us and we share it with other people
45:54
that we have just revealed you um and that's a betrayal for a man yeah
46:01
and so yeah so for me to do that with their shirt and reveal them when they
46:09
weren't in that state because literally they were helping me in that moment would you hold this for me sure
46:16
right I like cut the best part of them and then used it against them and I I
46:23
didn't know any of that [Music] it's pretty incredible to think that
46:28
that's where you started doing that because you know I can imagine that there are a lot of women
46:34
who keep men off balance or who don't respect men or like men or have many
46:41
negative beliefs about them about men but would never go so far as to do something like that like to actively
46:48
like it's one thing to say something at a man like like um you know kind of you know to shame a man like in a checkout
46:54
line or something like that Supermarket or wherever it shows up right it's something else entirely to walk up to a
47:00
man and actually rip his shirt open it's a snap shirt so you're not ruining a shirt right but like there's another
47:05
thing to actually physically interact with a man and that way to sort of cross that boundary like that's a degree of
47:11
like I can't even fathom that happening now again it's at a party and stuff like
47:17
that and you know it's it's a kind of a it's kind of a different kind of environment than just doing it you know at the at the mall or something like
47:23
that like hey buddy you know very different but still that that you were that forward about it and and almost
47:30
Unapologetic and at the time Unapologetic right
47:37
and even after the third time you did it he stopped doing it but after the third time was there any feelings of remorse
47:43
like maybe I shouldn't have done that or was like yeah I do this to guys for fun
47:48
oh that was just three times at that point
47:54
you said what
48:05
I'm in a minute with that
48:13
um I mean I I have my first crush on a boy
48:21
when I was seven okay and
48:32
probably even younger my first like a real Crush would have been with my with my big brother you don't think of it as
48:38
a crush but you know my brother was 15 months older than me and I just wanted to be with him
48:44
I didn't I just wanted to follow around with the news there's this amazing space about him
48:51
even as a child I just even though he sometimes it was so cool to me I just
48:57
would always go back to wanting to follow him around and and you know I
49:02
wanted to play with Chris and um
49:08
and my you know my father my father adored me he wasn't around much
49:15
um but when he was he was he was so kind
49:21
you know like there are things I wanted to do like I wanted to learn cursive
49:26
and at school they said I wasn't old enough to learn cursor they wouldn't teach me
49:32
and so my dad sat down and taught me cursing
49:38
and um I think I I mean I just I just always
49:45
loved men I always loved boys I always would rather be with boys and with girls
49:53
and and I always had one girlfriend one best girlfriend
49:59
um but I I'd rather play with the boys you guys to wave
50:05
sometimes and um
50:10
but that feeling that way made me really
50:16
vulnerable and and also if you think of the time when I grew up right I was born in 1960
50:24
so I was becoming right so I was becoming a
50:32
a young woman at a time when when the old rules and stereotypes which
50:41
my mother was part of right a homemaker and uh and women's Liberation and
50:51
Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better which my mom danced around and sung in the kitchen
50:57
and uh the messages right to the message of
51:03
Barbie dolls and you can run a truck through her thighs so
51:11
yeah right yeah yeah introduce thigh gap to women and had us believe we're
51:17
supposed to have that and and and just this this message from my
51:24
mother who was so pissed at my father for not giving her the fairy tale life
51:30
she thought she was signing up for and her own
51:36
intellect that didn't
51:43
how women were thought of at the time do you know didn't have a full expression so she mostly hid it and was conniving
51:52
and and this this message that that really
51:58
as a woman you have to have a man who's your man where's your man you
52:06
don't what you don't have a man you've got to have a man Barbie's gotta
52:11
have a Ken and where's Skipper's boyfriend
52:16
who's skipper Skipper's by his little sister oh okay
52:22
Barbie had a Ken blonde Ken brunette Ken but she could pick her Ken before we had
52:30
to have a kitten so you have to have a man but don't ever need him
52:41
yes and make sure he knows you don't mean to him
52:48
yeah mission accomplished yes yes and but
52:55
the the the conflict right you gotta have one but never need him
53:01
and and then as I started studying then finding out and then would just throw it
53:08
they they would just throw the comment off they didn't know it was earth-shattering
53:14
to say something like well she didn't need it she didn't need me so I but for
53:20
someone who did it in direct conflict with what I was
53:26
taught and what so many women to the Sea are proving I think think that the less
53:32
I need you the more attractive I will be to you um
53:37
exactly so we we have my friend who use this works conflate we
53:45
have completed meeting and needy oh that's great yes that's great so
53:54
women are terrified of being perceived as needed being perceived as weak and
54:01
needy and so instead of addressing that like
54:07
we started asking men what what does meeting mean to you
54:16
and one man the way one man put it was maybe is when you can't handle the basic
54:24
components of life yes
54:29
yeah and that's completely different than never
54:36
needing something from another human being never needing help for example right or and it's the source
54:45
of as gets talked about in the Queen's code the source of women not asking for
54:51
help in a way that's dignified supportive empowering
54:57
um other people can win at providing it right because we don't ever want to need help we don't ask for help
55:03
in a timely way or with respect and then we end up needing to be saved because
55:11
we've got to know our head and then we're pissed at the lecture saving comes with which the queen codes illuminate
55:17
why the lecture um and and it just ends up
55:24
it just ends up making it worse right getting a lecture for needing to
55:29
be saved has us it reaffirms never needed me because they'll be attached
55:37
in instead of understanding really how huge the difference is and what it means
55:42
to a man who's instinctually always
55:47
exercising discipline about a limited amount of time and money and energy and
55:52
that is really invested in his plans and something that he's got enough to his
55:59
plan in order to keep someone who cares about from a big consequence
56:04
that yeah that's going to come with a lecture yes ask me sooner I could have planned
56:10
on this and I would have been happy to provide I didn't know any of that
56:15
sure I mean you know but but as Claudia illustrates in the Queen's code that
56:20
that inheritance and I think that's the that's the power of of Claudia as a
56:26
character is that she's talking about nine generations of inheritance about how men work that got lost in Myra's
56:34
generation who I assume is the baby boomer generation right that's sort of around that time roughly right like in
56:40
that in that you know she's probably born or born around the same time as you are somewhere somewhere in that range
56:45
right that there's this all this wisdom nine Generations is what like a couple hundred years 300 years maybe of
56:51
information about men it's even more than that's it Generations used to be measured in 25 years and Claudius
56:58
family's been at it for 500 years 500 years okay so here's foreign
57:05
so here's 500 years of knowledge about how men work that is the entire inheritance is just discarded by her
57:12
daughter like whatever I don't have any need or want for it and so it's not like
57:17
Allison Armstrong is Conjuring this stuff up out of nowhere like you've spent centuries yourself studying men
57:23
and women and you figured it out it's like no this inheritance this knowledge about men was there it was understood
57:28
how women can relate to men and how men can relate to women how men can relate to themselves that's a whole other thing
57:34
and it was just thrown out it was just thrown out in favor of um
57:39
I like how you said needing versus needy I like that distinction the one that I
57:45
that I talk a lot about is um equality versus sameness like that's another
57:51
that's another thing that gets conflated and then and then there's also um strong and independent versus soft
57:58
and self-sufficient and it's that it's that independent like what you're looking for is not a woman who's
58:03
independent doesn't need a man but she can take care of herself she's self-sufficient right and so I really
58:09
like that you added that third piece needy needing versus needy right because
58:14
there's there's a big difference for a man in there there's a huge difference in can I
58:22
I mean I've can I talk about the independence and self-sufficiency yeah please please
58:28
um my my mother used to say to me when I
58:34
was wanting to be married again so I got married
58:39
when I was 23 in and that was the man to whom I was with Melissa because he
58:46
didn't do anything husbands are supposed to do and is that is that because he actually didn't or that's because what you
58:52
thought you thought he did like Melissa Scott's doing a decent job but Melissa's just cutting him off of
58:58
the knees every chance she gets right well the important part of my sentence
59:03
is what I thought he should do that's what I yeah okay yeah so
59:11
he wasn't anything that I thought a husband would be and he wasn't that way
59:16
before we got married but I thought getting married would change him I thought that Minister had buried them
59:23
yeah it's amazing and he would change into a Heisman and after we got married and I told him
59:30
the light had come on in my car and it needed its oil changed and he said you should take it to Jiffy
59:36
Lube that was my first indication that no no no husbands take care of cars
59:44
that's what husbands do they take care of quotes yes it's it's written on the it's
59:51
written on the on the stone tablets of husbandry yeah and um so anyhow when I was wanting
1:00:00
to be married my mother said to me um well Allison you may have to give up
1:00:06
your precious self-sufficiency and your damn Independence
1:00:12
at least the two different concepts they they actually and they are in the
1:00:18
way that um when I created the course that at the time was called celebrating men in
1:00:23
marriage um because it was everything I'd learned from Men about marriage and and actually
1:00:29
really intelligent about marriage um in a way that women generally aren't
1:00:37
um because men take commitment very seriously very seriously very seriously
1:00:43
and and you know I'm a dictionary girl so as
1:00:48
that course was coming through again with all these thoughts that I
1:00:56
thought were my own um I looked up Independence in self-sufficiency
1:01:02
and and women want to be married but they want
1:01:08
to be independent but independent means free from the influence of another
1:01:15
good way to be married exactly and so that's why a man will think this woman
1:01:23
could be my wife she has all the qualities I'm looking for in my wife and then she tells them about something
1:01:30
she's decided and in her behind
1:01:35
they're not serious enough for him to have the right to an opinion let them Lona
1:01:43
vote so she just decided you know she's selling her house she's you know she
1:01:51
just decides stuff and um and to her he doesn't have the right to
1:01:58
say anything about that she doesn't have enough status that he deserves to have influence
1:02:05
and he she doesn't women don't know that when she does that she thinks oh my gosh
1:02:13
would she do that if we were men because to him it's not about
1:02:20
the right to influence to him it's about we're checking out sharing lives
1:02:27
together how do we do things how do we decide things how do we solve problems what are we doing we're upset I'm and
1:02:34
this is a this is meeting to the puzzle pieces fit together and that free from
1:02:41
influence here's the result oh my God yes I
1:02:49
marriage isn't about independence it's about you honor yourself but you're
1:02:55
not free from influence everything about your partner influences your life whether you like it yes yes
1:03:02
which is why I think people have very healthy reasons we're not getting married and
1:03:08
and then self-sufficiency this is one of the things that I
1:03:13
had interact with women they want a boyfriend they want they even say they want to be married
1:03:20
and they're and they have this value of self-sufficiency which self-sufficiency
1:03:26
is an instinctual value right if you can't
1:03:32
provide for yourself right if you can't handle the normal things in life by yourself you're gonna die
1:03:40
but it all depends on what you're up to in your life
1:03:45
right once you commit to something that's beyond an individual's ability to
1:03:52
create self-sufficiency is no longer valid
1:03:59
like no this and you guys know this you taught me this oh like
1:04:04
my brother my brother's this amazing organic farmer right he goes out to his field and he's got this thing that he
1:04:11
wants to create he starts working on it um he's trying to solve a problem and he
1:04:17
gets to a point where he goes oh this is a two-man job
1:04:22
and he just concludes that he doesn't he's not embarrassed or ashamed of
1:04:27
himself for not being able to do it it's a two-man job or this is going to take a
1:04:35
tin it's not there's no pride of self-sufficiency it's retaken on
1:04:40
something that's beyond my ability to do and this is my part and I need people
1:04:46
who are able to do these other parts including I'm not a good team leader I need someone to read this too
1:04:51
okay and so it's it's one of the things that I appreciate so much that I've
1:04:56
learned from that then it's it's just a fact right it's not a
1:05:05
judgment it's just a fact given what you're committed to and you know I'm
1:05:10
passionate about partnership and in our our course Lux which is
1:05:17
online starts out by saying most people aren't up to anything big enough in their life to require perch
1:05:24
and we do so good purpose keep our lives small enough we keep our
1:05:29
Ambitions small enough so that we can be self-sufficient
1:05:36
and it ends up being a cert going from a Bible imperative to Identity
1:05:44
and and so we'll keep limiting ourselves we will have an idea to take on something and oh but I couldn't do that
1:05:50
myself let me just killed it I can't do it myself and so
1:05:56
yes a certain level of Competency I would call it in the in the way that I have put it yeah instead of
1:06:02
self-sufficiency I would what I've said is as a because women are like oh men you know men don't like
1:06:09
strong women and like uh hello instinctually
1:06:16
he's looking he's going to partner with a woman he is looking for the strongest
1:06:23
most competent partner that he thinks he can attract and keep
1:06:35
who's strong and confident but left with I got nothing to give her right because
1:06:41
he's looking for what would she need from me right what can I contribute to her how
1:06:48
does she just need me to have a better life and meanwhile women are concealing
1:06:54
what it is that like I tease women okay you're so proud of it self-sufficient so
1:07:02
I want you to make a list of everything you do need a man for like if you rub
1:07:07
your own back can you hold yourself in your arms and
1:07:13
comfort you the way that a man can do I
1:07:19
mean you guys are awesome this came up about the Queen's code last week because there's a part in
1:07:25
the first couple chapters where Kimberly is insulted at an effort to be comforted
1:07:32
right and then even I didn't even notice this one of the participants pointed out
1:07:37
and then later in the same chapter Claudia is being comforted by Bert
1:07:43
and it had her realize that she doesn't let anybody comfort her and she really
1:07:50
would love to become burned and she'd like to ask her husband to come for her I mean geez talk about something that
1:07:57
changes the quality of your life comfort so
1:08:05
yes there are many things we can be self-sufficient at and there are so many things that we can't beat because they
1:08:12
come from another human being right I like that I'm not committed to the
1:08:19
word um self-sufficient I just like the alliteration with soft and self-sufficient but you're right what I'm trying to capture with that is this
1:08:25
idea of um of not needy right so sufficient meaning not needy but I like competent as well right because that's
1:08:33
that's true like we're not looking for women that are completely and totally self-sufficient because you know we as
1:08:38
men when we become Good Men We recognize that we're not self-sufficient either and that's a big transition for because
1:08:44
many men are in this Lone Wolf kind of mentality I have to do it all my own you
1:08:49
know no one's coming for me I gotta do it all and it's a big step for a man to get past that and recognize as you as
1:08:56
you so brilliantly said if you only take on things that you can tackle as an
1:09:01
individual you're going to live small but you have to be able to work and live
1:09:06
in teams and Community as a man because that's how you accomplish great things right and so you have to get past your
1:09:12
own desire for for Lone Wolf Independence as a man or self-sufficiency and reckon recognize that none of us are as strong as all of
1:09:20
us and that's a point that I try so hard to make to men because one of the things
1:09:25
that I experience is that there are so many men in this in the men's movement in particular that are like my version
1:09:32
of being a man is the only way to be a man and that's that's objectively not
1:09:37
true and you can even see it in like the movie The Lord of the the Lord of the Rings right Aragorn is nothing like
1:09:43
Gimli is nothing like Legolas there's nothing like Frodo is nothing like Gandalf these men are not similar but
1:09:48
you recognize them all as men recognize them all as part of a team why why are all these kinds of men
1:09:55
different kinds of band and all equally valid men but all men have to look like you Mr content creator how does that
1:10:02
work and so and so I try to encourage men to get to that point where you're
1:10:09
um it's interdependence right dependence to Independence to interdependence where
1:10:14
you recognize what your limitations as a man are and you recognize that that guy doesn't have the same limitations but he has his
1:10:21
own and the two of you together can do much more and that you tie that also into partnership is very powerful
1:10:28
because it's not something like to ask women today what do you need a man for SNAP answer nothing
1:10:35
right you know and it's like it's not without even hesitation right your your face right there shows it right it's
1:10:41
like well is that true can we dig into that notion that you need a man for nothing because I don't
1:10:47
know that and maybe you said this to me um but I certainly heard it recently it said
1:10:53
um men have never said we don't need women they're they're you know there's a small
1:10:58
segment of men out there called mgtow men going their own way that say that but it's a but it's very small and
1:11:03
that's that Community has its own problems um but like that women have developed this
1:11:09
belief that they don't need men when men have never developed like I say like without women it's pointless right what
1:11:16
are we doing just go back and get in the cave like Bert says that like men would be content of caves and campfires
1:11:23
without women and it's true right so so I appreciate you're trying to break down uh using using the queen's code
1:11:30
especially this notion that women don't need men and and getting them to ask
1:11:36
like what do you think you might actually need a man for yeah
1:11:42
a night ago on and on just on that subject and um
1:11:51
you know you've met Dan who's been in his space he he says hello by the way
1:11:58
um yeah and
1:12:04
I didn't know until I moved here a year ago how
1:12:10
small my life had become living alone in
1:12:15
that huge house yeah right in the country um
1:12:22
and I didn't I didn't realize I was shooting too
1:12:28
until until I moved here and I never thought I would leave my house in the
1:12:34
country especially if you had to move to a city even though you know
1:12:39
huge city has 16 000 people so it's almost got a stoplight
1:12:47
he has many stoplights and and I have 34 miles from the stock right down upside
1:12:53
down at 295 people right so um but I got to experience
1:13:00
that um and as you know we don't live together Dan and I
1:13:07
um but I I live in this circle of his
1:13:12
protection yes he's kind of live together but not
1:13:17
really live together yeah I know what you mean well I think living together is full of
1:13:23
Hazards and that is one of the things I didn't want to do it was on my list if I
1:13:29
was going to be in a relationship again not attached to being married or living
1:13:34
together full-time and and so having my little house on his property in and
1:13:43
you've actually stayed in this house before it was mine yeah um I'm in his circle of protection and I I call him
1:13:50
the Lord of The Manor sometimes and but it's it's palpable
1:13:56
it's it's palpable because he's right there and my encounters with
1:14:05
my encounters with Bears last year um
1:14:10
the one trying to break down the shutter to get into the kitchen because I was cooking
1:14:16
um cooking is so good it attracts bears hey is it he was a little guy but he
1:14:25
seems like you know when standing up can reach taller than I am seems really big and
1:14:32
um that is pretty big bear yeah yeah so so the you know whether it's Critters
1:14:39
and um this year it's been raccoons five raccoons so far
1:14:45
um that we've trapped by raccoons some of them timid and some of them snarling and
1:14:52
terrifying um but just who I can be because I feel safe
1:15:00
and it's one of the things that um it towards the end of our understanding
1:15:07
women course um men who watch it can sue it they can see the the and get it this early
1:15:16
um women responding to this assertion that I've made that it doesn't matter
1:15:23
our sexuality it doesn't matter our competency instinctually
1:15:32
there isn't anything including a gun because after great guy
1:15:37
great guy I went and got one got to shoot it right um
1:15:42
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual
1:15:49
vibration able to think thoughts and not others
1:15:56
the whole capacities that come from feeling truly safe nothing contributes
1:16:02
to that the same way as one man that you know is for you
1:16:08
but he's got you yes nothing and I I've asked this of thousands of women
1:16:15
you know picture how how you breathe what you think how you feel in your body
1:16:21
in the presence of a man you know is for you they're present to that okay now how
1:16:29
many women does it take to give you the same feeling and I
1:16:35
watched thousands of women thinking thinking like okay two five ten
1:16:43
under 500 until finally they all just shaking
1:16:49
their heads there's no numbers [Music]
1:16:56
and talk about interdependence right
1:17:02
um that we can contribute that to each other it doesn't have to be a romantic
1:17:07
relationship it doesn't have to be a sexual relationship it doesn't even have to be a committed relationship
1:17:14
it can it can be how you're being with me sitting next to me on a plane
1:17:20
like this this young man we were we were chatting about a bunch of stuff and then we said
1:17:26
um excuse me I have to close my eyes and take a nap now but I'll be back
1:17:33
that's cute and you leaned against the side of the plane and you closed his
1:17:39
eyes and you went to sleep and I just thought where did he find that
1:17:44
how was he woke up I asked him did you get that from to reassure me you're
1:17:50
still here you'll be back I am safe where did you get that from which led to a whole other conversation about his
1:17:57
mother his mother taught him oh my gosh um and and if you if you reverse it it's
1:18:05
the same thing I if I ever had one another career it'll be in in customer service teaching customer service to men
1:18:13
and having single Focus attention that you have on the customer in front of you if you just take a moment and say I'll
1:18:21
be with you with her right just like I'll be with
1:18:28
you next because we're standing in the line and the man has not acknowledged our presence we're gonna keep them in
1:18:34
attack he doesn't even know I'm here I'm gonna die and we get tense and then
1:18:40
by the time we get we start making [ __ ] comments and then
1:18:45
taking so long it's all out of fear it doesn't sound like fear but it's all out
1:18:50
of fear we're just one minute I see you I see you I'll be with you as soon as
1:18:57
I'm done here right it's the same effect as being able
1:19:03
to take a number and you see that that actually going by the numbers
1:19:08
at random numbers yeah yeah you wanted to say something
1:19:14
no this I mean this is very helpful
1:19:20
um because that's one of and I want to dive into
1:19:26
all of these topics and continue on our off-road Adventure but I told myself we were going to talk about the Queen's
1:19:31
good because we could talk about a thousand other things but I do want to bring it back to the to the book and the
1:19:37
audiobook and that I think um to go all the way back to my story for reading the
1:19:43
Queen's code is that I discovered keys to the kingdom and I don't know how I found it on Amazon I was overseas at
1:19:51
the time I was within 2018 maybe two late 2017 something like that and I read
1:19:57
the keys to the kingdom first because I read it was the first book so I'll read the first book in the series right and
1:20:04
um and I recognized just how true and real the
1:20:10
stages of development in a man's life are because I was on my big four-year overseas travel Adventure I was in some
1:20:17
sort of night stage I guess right like I was out slaying slaying dragons right and I was like and and that provided
1:20:24
such an incredible piece to me of of um peace p-i-e-c-e and peace p-e-a-c-e
1:20:30
right at the same time to recognize that no one had ever told me about the
1:20:36
various stages of life that I would go through as a man and I felt that I was doing something completely you know off
1:20:43
the main off the beaten path you know unusual irregular especially compared to all my friends who had settled down and
1:20:49
all that stuff but they had never really had much of a night phase and here I was trusting my own instinct to say there's
1:20:56
something unfinished in myself that I have to go do and so when I read that and recognizing excuse me and
1:21:04
recognizing that I knew intuitively that as soon as I was done doing that then I would be ready to
1:21:11
begin thinking about a wife and kids but this had to be done first right and and
1:21:16
like no one had ever given me that knowledge before but I knew it I knew it in my gut and I trusted it and I gave up
1:21:23
an entire life you know in the United States and in San Francisco and California I say I pushed all in put it
1:21:28
all on the table and said I'm going and I did it and that was my preparation for being able to have something to offer to
1:21:34
a woman later in my life and I knew that and then the keys to the kingdom you lay that out I was like I'm looking at my
1:21:41
life reflected in a mirror no yeah and there's a lot going there's a lot going on in that book
1:21:47
um but that's that's really what I took away I remember where that landed in my chest I was like oh I'm doing exactly
1:21:53
what I'm supposed to be doing hallelujah praise God for that right right
1:21:59
and so it was it was right after that like as soon as I finished keys to the kingdom I picked up the Queen's code
1:22:06
and I I'll never forget the experience of reading that book for the first time
1:22:13
on Unforgettable to see to to learn so
1:22:18
much about myself but to feel so understood to feel so completely understood by a woman uh and and to see
1:22:27
so many things like the way that you read the men in the audiobook now did you nail all of it like I'm listening to
1:22:32
you you know saying Bert and Jack and Raul and and their inflection and the
1:22:38
tone of voice and the way that the men say the things they're saying like for example when when Kimberly I don't know
1:22:44
it's kind of spoiler alert whatever so when when Kimberly says to Jack like you know I'd like for you to be my lover and
1:22:50
Jack's like no like not her I was like oh because I was
1:22:56
I was like oh I felt that in my own body when she said that like oh no right and
1:23:03
and I remember that whole experience of and Scott you know having been many of
1:23:10
those different men and so I remember when I read the book The First Time
1:23:15
that not only were the things that Claudia was teaching about men true right like she can say the things but
1:23:23
then the way that all the men Illustrated and embody the truth of them it was just incredibly powerful
1:23:30
experience that showed me a bunch of things all at once it showed me that um
1:23:35
it taught me about myself because I didn't have language to describe a lot of different aspects of myself that I
1:23:42
felt were true like the way that um the way that a a man is recharged around a
1:23:48
contented woman like I was almost in tears when I read that because I realized how rarely I had experienced it
1:23:54
and how true it was right so it showed me these things about myself it showed
1:23:59
me that men could be understood by women that we're not it's not some some dense
1:24:07
fog that's impossible to see through and that men and women can actually relearn
1:24:12
and it is relearn how to relate to each other and it was this powerfully transformative experience for me that
1:24:18
planted a seed in my mind that has taken shape over the past four years and and deeply informs what we've talked about
1:24:24
which is the great reconciliation and so now I find myself recommending the book regularly like several times
1:24:32
several times a week because it's had that much of an impact on my life as saying no we can relearn how to relate
1:24:40
to each other as men and women and and there's a way that we can start that process at minimum if not completed and
1:24:46
it's in the Queen's code which is a big thing it's a big thing to say
1:24:52
months thank you
1:25:09
um I think before we started recording and mentioned
1:25:16
um the acknowledgment of the in the book and yes my having added the part
1:25:22
specifically about the audiobook and um
1:25:31
it may sound strange but I am I feel blessed by
1:25:39
because of Greg having
1:25:44
across the bill passed died left me without taking any of his stuff
1:25:56
um could you have an interesting update for you and one of the things that I find uh
1:26:01
oh wow you have a film and for the Renaissance they've been
1:26:09
in his in his uh Porsche right um
1:26:18
because of his passing and because of Mike finally realizing I did what a
1:26:27
romantic relationship again um because for a long time I was like no I know how much work they take right it
1:26:34
takes so much work to be brilliant and I'm not going to have one that isn't brilliant so I don't know if I want to do this at all and then having that Dan
1:26:43
two years ago and encountering someone with whom it's worth it
1:26:50
right it's it's still work it's still everything I knew it would be
1:26:56
um yet the benefits are astonishing to me and and part of it is that conversation
1:27:04
we were having before great Greg was self-sufficient as an identity
1:27:13
oh interesting yes and and so
1:27:18
our partnership was limited because most of the things that I
1:27:24
offered in order to be of help in order to be useful in order to have something
1:27:31
go faster easier most of what I offered was taken as an insult
1:27:38
um yeah and so over the years I offered
1:27:43
less and less and less and less because it hurts to be interacted with that way
1:27:49
no he not no thank you no thanks for offering no this isn't it
1:27:57
no maybe another time just no and this page to it is
1:28:04
and in and I didn't know how much Dan I didn't
1:28:11
know how much Greg had had imprinted me like he he was the man that I had a
1:28:18
long-term relationship with you know almost 30 years together and even though I've been married before my first
1:28:25
husband and I spent almost retirement we were the picture of Independence
1:28:31
and so being with Ian who's a very different person in that
1:28:38
he's always played team sports right since he was four years old hockey
1:28:45
right yeah hockey's play team sports and then coached you know many many years
1:28:52
coaching hockey and and it's so distinct for him what team
1:28:59
is and we're gonna have a name for our team we were like headstrong
1:29:09
yes yes I'm strong laughs
1:29:19
but was this this thing it's really beautiful that I didn't
1:29:24
get to experience before where he he is known less by his admiration of
1:29:32
my strengths just as I am no less by my admiration
1:29:38
case yes and so you know he'll come along and
1:29:44
goes okay so what what's the engineer come up with how are we going to do this
1:29:51
it's great right you're the engineer and but then he'll tease me about being
1:29:57
um vertically challenged right
1:30:03
but then I'll tease him back we were walking down the sidewalk and there's an
1:30:08
overhanging tree and I walked right under it and he had to duck I said now who's vertically challenged
1:30:15
he remembers that one yeah
1:30:21
that's amazing yeah buddy um the things that we can do together
1:30:29
like learning to sail right last year learning to sail together hugely
1:30:35
challenging and he's amazing on the helm
1:30:40
right he's just cool as a cucumber and just awesome on the home I don't like
1:30:46
being on them but I'm a monkey right set me up for Mast
1:30:52
the under sale I'm a happy camper right I'm just like crazy like should we be
1:30:58
very agile and you know this little mountain goat on the boat and one line for yourself and one lane for the boat
1:31:05
oh wow oh so much fun right it's amazing
1:31:10
yeah and and so much fun because there's so little
1:31:17
we're just not proving to each other you know we're just not presenting each
1:31:23
other and although there's this funny thing I um
1:31:29
well it goes back to the independency but let me finish what I was saying so what I'm grateful to for the Queen's
1:31:35
code is I is I've had to relearn you know I I had to re-learn applied to a very
1:31:45
different human being what does it look like for him and just like you were talking about all
1:31:52
the characters are unique and to themselves as are all men there's no one way to be a man and yet there are these
1:32:01
intrinsic qualities that are so beautiful if you can see them and learn how to
1:32:08
work with them and if you
1:32:13
if you can't they seem like they're the reason why I can't get what I need from you
1:32:21
mm-hmm right this it seem like obstacles instead of instead of strengths and um
1:32:30
and I'm I love that you get to experience the Queen's code from the
1:32:36
intent in my in my intent of women getting to see men's motivations and how
1:32:43
beautiful they are and because of single Focus for example the effects of
1:32:49
testosterone on the brain things have to be worked with in a certain way or you can't get to the beauty
1:32:55
and the same is true for women right if women have such beauty but if
1:33:02
men don't know how much our safety depends on feeling connected and every time you focus on something else we feel
1:33:09
disconnected and lost and then we get afraid and we do all kinds of
1:33:15
ugly things um like be critical you know the first time
1:33:22
I was critical of damn it I was trying not to be but I was really afraid and we
1:33:27
just met yeah and he's like uh
1:33:33
felt like criticism and I stopped taking that a long time ago yeah like you told me that story that was fun
1:33:41
um yeah and then I burst into tears that I criticized him be Allison Armstrong
1:33:47
and just criticized a man and and then I just I was afraid I just confessed I was
1:33:54
afraid right and then he was tapping his steering wheel because he was driving he was having and she sounds like that
1:34:00
she's cute and she sounds like that she's scared she sounds like what she's doing he was memorizing he was learning
1:34:08
me because okay so how about if that happens again I'll remember that you're
1:34:15
scared and and then I'll ask what's scaring you
1:34:21
how about that that sounds good first deal right we're
1:34:26
gonna first deal just a few hours into this relationship and then I said well
1:34:32
yeah but as quick as I can already tell you or you will probably already figure out figured out the things that scare me
1:34:41
but if you want to ask that's fine and then I thought a second I said but how about I just come right out and say I'm
1:34:48
scared oh that's good right yeah
1:34:55
and then and it has been a passenger in a car right it's scary to be a passenger in a car
1:35:02
and in Colorado
1:35:07
yeah but it was great because a few months later I was trying to figure out how to ask him to not follow the car in
1:35:15
front of us so closely even though it'd be a normal place to follow in City driving and they're not
1:35:21
used to City driving and have a thing about tailgating and I was trying to figure out a nice way to ask that and
1:35:27
then I remembered and I said it's scaring me that you're so close to that car
1:35:33
let me just amazing so simple so simple right just
1:35:40
stick with the truth but we're trying to you know it's a definition of strategy
1:35:46
um to move yourself into the best possible position before engaging with
1:35:51
the Enemy oh yeah
1:35:56
right and that's how we are with each other we're trying to move ourselves into a position where we don't reveal
1:36:02
any weaknesses where we don't reveal any dependency where we don't feel anything
1:36:08
that we need which equals a weak a weakness right and so much of the Queen's code is
1:36:15
is just showing that none of these are weaknesses they're they're just part of
1:36:21
being human and how we reveal them to each other makes all the difference in how the other person can respond like in
1:36:28
that scene that you spoiler alerted you know Jack's reaction and then
1:36:34
got out of his reaction long enough to look over at Kimberly
1:36:40
Kimberly was being yes which is so much a part of the message that is not
1:36:48
stating it's how we're being with each other is so much more important than how
1:36:54
we put this right yes women are always asking me how do I say it and the Queen's code was
1:37:02
about I knew I could teach women how to speak the language of humans but if the
1:37:08
being the beingness of the woman isn't congruent
1:37:13
if she hasn't transformed her relationship to being provided for her relationship
1:37:20
to help to accomplish something bigger than herself her relationship to saving
1:37:27
her relationship like if she is a transformed her relationship to that even having the words it's not going to
1:37:34
work because it's people who were beating is louder than everything
1:37:43
it's I mean that's that's what's behind The Vow
1:37:48
right the the you know I vow to give up the right to castrate men forever it's that if you take on the teachings of the
1:37:56
Queen's code you can put them into your head you know and you can express them from your mouth but if the person who's doing
1:38:03
that if the woman who's doing that hasn't had a true change of heart like a
1:38:09
real trans a real commitment to transform her way of being two men
1:38:15
right then it's just going to create destruction and you illustrate that so
1:38:21
clearly through the through the Melissa scene with Scott it's crushing it's it's
1:38:26
crushing like to feel I I think you know I think um
1:38:32
I think Scott's reaction in that scene is is probably mild compared to what
1:38:37
would happen to a lot of men right like he's he clearly loves her a lot to
1:38:43
respond in that way versus just to walk out the door for example he's like okay right and and this is again that's the
1:38:52
power that's the power of the book and that that my experience as a man reading it
1:38:57
and to to learn the hero's language was obviously not going to give away um
1:39:03
and to to know intuitively in my own minds and in my own heart in my own body that yes those are the words
1:39:10
like those are the words that that that activate me and call me to attention and can truly bring out the best in me and
1:39:19
can also be used against me because I want to give my strength away as a man I've worked hard to cultivate
1:39:25
my strength as a man it's a it's a multi-decades-long project for a man to
1:39:30
get to a point in his life where he truly has the ability to offer himself like I offer myself to you partner or
1:39:38
you friend or who or whoever right and and here are the keys particularly like a wife right
1:39:44
you know fiance wife here are the keys to how to bring forth the best in me and
1:39:49
that those same keys can be used to absolutely bring out the worst right or or to destroy
1:39:57
you have to have a train a change of heart as a woman and how you in terms of how you relate to men in order to take
1:40:04
responsibility for those and then you really get to see men shine but it costs you something as a woman
1:40:11
you can't get it for free and that's that's the power of that vow it's like how how bad do you want that
1:40:18
you know how much how much of yourself are you willing to give to get something from a man that you could never give
1:40:25
yourself and that's where the transformation comes in that that commitment and it's
1:40:30
so inspiring to me to know that there are so many women that are willing to make that commitment
1:40:35
because you know the dialogues almost seems to be women who would never be willing to make that commitment but I
1:40:40
know for a fact millions of women they're like you know we're over we're over this independent self-sufficient thing
1:40:47
those guys over there you know they do things differently over there maybe we have something to learn from them and
1:40:52
and maybe they have something to learn from us let's give that a shot foreign
1:41:08
you said there's so many things that it sparked in me um
1:41:19
further along in the book which you referred to or Bert is trying to unwind
1:41:25
what's happening to Claudia and her help yeah he was really worried about her and
1:41:30
then he finally pinpoints it and and it's
1:41:36
it's the first time that this concept of accountability shows up
1:41:41
and it's so important and it's um
1:41:46
it's one of the most underestimated contexts
1:41:52
and um and one of the ways that women
1:41:59
unconsciously reduce men um I interacted with an organization and
1:42:05
that their job is transformation that's the business is transformation and the
1:42:11
founder um the founder died and his wife took over and when I went to be a speaker
1:42:18
there I was so saddened because I watched this
1:42:24
crew of women who were all in the leadership positions interacting with
1:42:31
men as helpers
1:42:37
yeah and and they didn't even know they didn't even know how much they were
1:42:42
emasculating these amazing men around them who if they just released the
1:42:48
accountability to that expertise instead of
1:42:53
managing and micromanaging everything like these were these guys are really
1:42:59
good helpers but they love very much they're like good dogs
1:43:05
do you know right yeah and
1:43:11
um in a course that we haven't gotten to have since the beginning of covet covered the answer partnership
1:43:16
accountability is the is if it's the first Topic in the context of
1:43:21
partnership and and I make fun of us that accountability
1:43:28
has become um there's a lot of status associated
1:43:34
with accountability and that the more that you're quote in charge of the more important you are and
1:43:42
that one of the things that's wearing women out is we will make ourselves accountable for anything and everything
1:43:50
and we don't stop and think is this my part
1:43:56
and and we're just we're just merely we don't even want to we just really
1:44:02
really willing to be accountable because you're afraid of what will happen if we're not we don't know that maybe two
1:44:08
steps behind us or someone for whom that would be privileged to the accountant
1:44:13
and it's one of the things that women don't know about men that that language
1:44:19
would do me that honor of being my wife would you do me the honor of marrying me
1:44:25
that he's asking to be accountable for taking care of her in certain ways
1:44:33
and and Melissa interacting with Scott and
1:44:39
the Queen's code she has no idea where she holds himself accountable for
1:44:46
um with his children with her with all the
1:44:52
people that worked for the mentors to be successful in their own careers like it's he is a huge capacity
1:44:59
and all she sees is he doesn't take out the damn trash yes
1:45:06
yeah and it um I asked the first time I led the dancer partnership and we were talking
1:45:13
about I call them accountability
1:45:20
okay [Laughter]
1:45:26
and and I just have this way of putting things Allison it's so good
1:45:31
I try to make things memorable right you succeed [ __ ] hours pumpkin hours
1:45:36
right yes dessert dessert pumpkin hours all that it's like yeah
1:45:43
um maybe that's my contribution to the
1:45:50
Queen's code to the movie um I think there's more than that so I
1:45:55
so I asked I'd say I'm receptive and obedient that those are my star qualities
1:46:03
um to all the things that are wanting to get through um but if I asked this group as the men in
1:46:11
the group like to what's it like for you for women to keep taking all the
1:46:18
accountabilities and leaving nothing for you at most at most they want your help
1:46:24
but they'll never ask you to be accountable or entrust you with accountability and
1:46:31
um this one man stood up he was probably in his 50s and he said
1:46:36
it's like training for something your entire life and then not be allowed to do
1:46:43
um that's right yeah it's what you said earlier right like this
1:46:51
um how you've known yourself to be all your entire life but no one calls you right
1:46:57
you've developed your strength that's so much what being a knight is about is actually
1:47:04
um developing and testing developing and testing developing and testing how good
1:47:09
am I I want to be good at that now how good am I yeah how good am I now how come right and it's it's awesome right
1:47:17
and then they have to put yourself to the test of all these things then being a prince you could say is okay now now
1:47:24
how am I going to use this to build something yes all these things that I've had
1:47:29
created in myself so yes accountability I imagine
1:47:36
accountability is going to show up in the third book it's about doing just arrived at near
1:47:44
the end of the Queen's private and it's it's huge it's huge
1:47:51
um one of the things you said is that the power and possibilities
1:47:58
of a partnership a determined by what each of the partners are being
1:48:04
accountable for being this women's
1:48:11
say that one more time just to make sure yeah that's yeah so I I like what
1:48:18
they're being accountable for say say that all again if if you don't mind the power and possibilities of a partnership
1:48:25
are determined by what each of the partners are being accountable
1:48:31
for being listening and speaking yes okay yes yeah including being
1:48:40
accountable for letting another person be accountable [Laughter]
1:48:45
yes to let you do your part to entrust you
1:48:52
to do the support you do in your part and it's your part this is this is massive
1:48:58
because I I don't want to one of the things that I run into writing about man
1:49:03
is I don't want to oversell men because I believe in the best of men but a lot of men really need to learn
1:49:09
accountability like that's a lesson that a lot of men and that's part of what the Renaissance of men is about that's part of what the men's movement about is
1:49:15
about generally is no man you like individual man you need to begin being
1:49:20
accountable for even more things than you're already accountable for the small the the very small life that you're
1:49:26
accountable for you can be much more accountable and take it and you can bear that weight of it and so I think that
1:49:33
there's been a week and I know that there's been a weakening of going going on of men that has forced women to take
1:49:38
on accountability in response and and I would I would say this is these are the result of societal forces that you and I
1:49:45
could spend a lot of time unpacking like I don't think it's all personal I think we're caught up in some some historical
1:49:50
flows that we're kind of fighting against the street well let's we'll just we'll got the thinking the thinking cap
1:49:56
on what can I say one thing about it because it's interesting yes yes you can what's that
1:50:02
integral to what the Queen's code is about because as women disempower men
1:50:11
yes we weaken you yes and then we we feel the weakness in
1:50:19
you yes and part of feeling that weakness makes us feel safer now you can't hurt
1:50:25
me yes but the other part of that weakness
1:50:30
has us take over yes
1:50:36
again to make us ourselves feel safe it's all about feeling safe so we disempower you to feel safe but then
1:50:42
because we've disempowered you we have to fill in and take over to have ourselves feel safe which the stepping
1:50:50
in and taking over also is a massive mm-hmm it makes it worse withholding
1:50:55
accountability is one of the biggest ways that women emasculate men or that any men are masquerade each other
1:51:02
right or even themselves so so this thing this spiraled down
1:51:10
right and in our work on partnership I start with accountability and we start
1:51:17
with the first person to become a partner of is yourself
1:51:23
and huge yeah and where I start with with accountability which is one of the
1:51:30
what I call a 14 extraordinary choices also known as 14 elements in Partnership
1:51:37
is actually starting with getting clear about what you're unwilling to be held
1:51:44
to account for
1:51:49
amazing 14 things that all have to happen simultaneously we talked we touched on
1:51:55
this in our last conversation yes yes okay and they're each Radioactive
1:52:00
but but here's the thing that related to the Queen's code that I would be thrilled for men to do
1:52:10
because what happens is women are trying to hold men to account
1:52:15
for acting like women the perfect person the perfect woman
1:52:22
and I'm terrible being that you're terrible peanut but this is what happens we're trying to hold you to account for
1:52:29
acting like a woman and you refuse to be held to account for acting like a woman which has women
1:52:35
think you refuse to be accountable for anything
1:52:42
yes it's too subtle it's too subtle women don't get it when a woman when a
1:52:47
man's like no you can't count on me for that well then I can't count on you for anything
1:52:53
instead of quit trying to count on me to act like a woman and you'll find out
1:52:59
what you can count on which the Queen's code is about what women can count on men four especially
1:53:09
when we stop trying to hold you to account for what you can't be counted on for yes which is doing what a woman would do
1:53:17
yes yeah but as long as we're down your throat about you're supposed to see what
1:53:23
I see and do what I would do and do it perfectly we can't ever see how much men
1:53:29
love to be count onable and for the things that men are count onable as for men
1:53:37
as a man or even individually like yes like when
1:53:43
so Greg would do this thing where he would figure out how far I was gonna go
1:53:48
and then he would make sure my car had enough gas to get there and back so he monitored my gas
1:53:56
tank imagine 20 years of this
1:54:02
sure okay and at one point I asked him I said I love that I don't ever have to
1:54:07
worry about gas but I don't ever have to put gas in my tank how would you like me to appreciate you for that
1:54:15
and his response took my breath away he said if you took that for granted it would
1:54:23
tell me that you know who I am [Music]
1:54:31
it opened up this whole other area of there are things appreciate about people
1:54:39
and it's actually insulting the way that we appreciate it oh you're such a wonderful man
1:54:45
no I'm a man yes
1:54:50
don't you get that like there's there's this insult that in what we won't take
1:54:57
for granted what we won't count on you for now do I think we don't need to appreciate things no I got a whole thing
1:55:04
on that appreciation's so important but someone's currency of appreciation matters and there are things that where
1:55:14
we're insulted and I've experienced it myself like that you think you can't count on me for that and make such a big
1:55:19
deal out of it is insulting to me yes
1:55:25
yes I can do much more than just that yes and so that sort of thinks for men to
1:55:32
own is this is what you can count on me for and if you just tell them you find
1:55:38
it then I'll know you know who I am and that's respect
1:55:44
it would be extra on top of what you can tell and this is the minimum this is how to
1:55:51
appreciate you for it mm-hmm right and then as one man said don't ask me for
1:55:58
what I can't provide yeah ask me for what I can provide and I'll give you all I've got
1:56:04
so women keep asking men to provide being a woman like Jack starts out in
1:56:10
the very first chapter women these days to be a man and a woman to be their
1:56:18
boyfriend and their girlfriend how come they don't how it doesn't work that way
1:56:23
and Men try that that's the thing though is that I'm glad that you mentioned that because some men do accept
1:56:28
accountability for being like a woman and it weakens it weakens men they try like me I tried that for many years and
1:56:36
women don't actually like it right that's the thing it's like okay I'll give you the thing that you that you want and you hate us and so I can't I
1:56:43
can't win right it's really tough and I do want to I want to I want to stay on that for just a second because there's
1:56:49
well there's a tendency in a lot of men in the men's movement to look at guys who act like that and and judge them
1:56:55
very harshly and there's a there's a lot of that and there's a lot of the ways that men can be cruel and judgmental to
1:57:01
each other right but I like the way that you frame it it's that these men are being accountable for the things that
1:57:07
the women in their lives are holding them accountable for and so they're actually being accountable but in this
1:57:13
inverse upside down kind of way it's not that they're unaccountable they're doing the best they can with the source that
1:57:19
they feel is authoritative right unfortunately which needs to change that's a whole thing but they're they're
1:57:25
they're actually being accountable now there are some men that are not being accountable for anything and that's a separate conversation but there are a
1:57:32
lot of men out there that are trying to be the safe you know nice you know
1:57:37
girlfriend kind of boyfriend like they're trying to do that because they think it's right and they're being
1:57:42
accountable for it it just doesn't work and and to be able to see that to make
1:57:47
that discernment and say this man is actually trying the thing and he's succeeding he's succeeding at the wrong
1:57:53
thing but he's trying right and and to ease up on some of those guys and to be
1:57:58
able to see them more clearly oh boy you just said so much
1:58:05
[Laughter]
1:58:15
sorry there's like 10 similar wrestlers trying to get to the door at the same time
1:58:21
that's how I describe my brains all little kids trying to get off the bus at the same time that's so funny that's
1:58:27
really funny so okay so I'm I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
1:58:34
start with this part um there's a man his name is Curtis who
1:58:40
volunteered um and got trained to teach her material and he volunteered in the understanding
1:58:46
women course um I think 13 times was the last time that I knew wow and yeah and
1:58:55
I noticed in the last few times that I was around him that
1:59:00
she had changed in not a good way and that my sense of him was that he was a
1:59:09
volcano about to explode and
1:59:14
I had the kind of relationship with him that I could talk to him about it and Curtis what is this
1:59:21
and what it and it changed how I led that course because what he said was
1:59:28
well after being at this course and finding out how much safety matters to Bringing
1:59:34
out the best in women I have taken on accountability for making women feel
1:59:41
safe yep yep and and I could see I mean it was just like
1:59:49
right that him taking on accountability for making women feel safe he was
1:59:55
literally suppressing his own self-expression yes he wasn't telling
2:00:01
his truth he wasn't being his truth yes and that's
2:00:06
that was this volcano that was building them and and I got it and I for anyone if you did
2:00:15
understand a woman online course which is 11 hours of life changing
2:00:20
you'll see that I never say that anymore and I even mourn the men do not take on
2:00:26
making a woman feel safe I know it hurts you how scared we are I know you never
2:00:32
want us to be scared but don't make yourself accountable for making women
2:00:37
feel safe because you can't make women feel safe at the most you can help a woman to feel
2:00:45
safe But ultimately it's up to her to choose
2:00:51
because of an instinctual standpoint there's never safe enough just like as a as a man you've never
2:00:57
produced too much there's no Instinct that kicks in okay I've produced enough no get out there and hunt again and
2:01:03
again and again right and for us we're never safe enough we have to consciously
2:01:09
override our own instincts and decide I'm safe enough and men can help us to feel safe but you
2:01:17
can't make us feel safe and when finding out all the whackadoodle behaviors that
2:01:22
come from women not feeling safe it has you want to be able to make us feel safe
2:01:28
is that because you love the beauty of women and anything you can do to get it including you know just listen and
2:01:36
respond like a girlfriend would instead of saying that's a crock of [ __ ] you have a nail in your forehead
2:01:43
yes he is about the nail darling yes so it's
2:01:52
it's under used us to be into what's going to be attractive to me what's going to be
2:01:59
necessary to me is if you act like this but unfortunately the decision to do
2:02:06
that and then a man is suppressing his own truth which is the source of your strength
2:02:11
that's perceived by a woman as a weakness and you'll be our best friend but we never want to have sex with you
2:02:17
yes yes yes yes yes in order to respond
2:02:23
sexually to the perception of strength and a man standing up for himself
2:02:30
and if you can stand up for yourself early and maybe quiet more quietly so it
2:02:37
doesn't scare the crap out of us then we can just perceive the strength in it and think you're so hot instead of betrayed
2:02:45
betray betrayed the trade betray yourself and then the volcano experience and then and and that is so threatening
2:02:52
right you're gonna get a fight fight or freeze response which are mastery
2:02:59
and the investigation comes in every one of those responses so the being true to yourself from the
2:03:06
very beginning it goes back to this okay so if I was being true to myself what
2:03:12
would I be count on a book for and what would I allow other people to
2:03:18
hold me to account for in fact if they did hold me to account that would tell me they knew know who I am it would be
2:03:25
respect to hold me to account for that because I am choosing to be a coming
2:03:31
and telling that truth including and these are the things you can't count on
2:03:38
even if you think a better man would be count on a before it it's not true for you
2:03:48
I'm I'm I mean I hope all the guys are listening right this is not the message that's delivered to many men or that
2:03:54
many men receive right many men receive the message right fully or wrong and I
2:04:00
think it's objectively true that you should receive this message that you are responsible men and I think this is this is out there in culture you as men are
2:04:07
dangerous and you are responsible for making women feel safe and in order to
2:04:13
do that you have to declaw and defang yourself and remove remove any notion of
2:04:19
your strength at all and as soon as you do that women will feel safe and then they will want you
2:04:25
right and I can't I can't tell you how hard I did that I can't tell you the
2:04:31
number of times I had women say will you're a beautiful man and then completely and then completely
2:04:36
ignore me right like I did I'm doing all the things and it's not it's not getting
2:04:42
it's not getting the response that I was told I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a man and it's not getting the
2:04:48
response that I was told I was gonna get yes right and I'm very I'm very fortunate that I came for myself right
2:04:55
and I had that I had the opportunity to meet men who sent me another Direction who sent me in the direction of things
2:05:01
that I had essentially shamed out of my own existence and one of the books that really does that for men um is the book
2:05:08
No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Dr Robert Glover have you heard of this book
2:05:14
yes but I haven't read it it's I mean the the entire Dynamic that you're
2:05:19
talking about with this guy being a volcano Curtis like that's that's what that's the exact same image that Dr
2:05:25
Robert Glover uses where it's like men they suppress they suppress what's true
2:05:30
for them and and they become very nice right and they present in this very nice way very non-threatening but the truth
2:05:37
of who they are gets suppressed and suppressed and then explodes and comes out sideways and Jordan Peterson talks
2:05:44
about this as well there's nothing more dangerous than a nice guy because you don't actually know who he is and then
2:05:50
I'm talking I'm talking to friends other women in my life that are saying they that are getting around nice guys and
2:05:55
how anxious these nice guys make them feel right like I don't know where this guy is at it's like but this is the
2:06:02
message that so many men receive is that you have to be nice you have to be nice nice but what they don't say which is
2:06:08
what you just said that there's no amount of that you can ever truly make a
2:06:14
woman feel safe that she has to be be responsible for her own feelings of
2:06:19
safety and her own innate anxiety like whatever to whatever grief she has that she needs to be in control of that and
2:06:26
it's not your responsibility man to cut to defang declaw and castrate yourself so that she feels safe because you can
2:06:32
never disempower yourself enough to make her feel safe and you'll actually end up doing the opposite
2:06:37
that's that's some stuff right there yeah that's some stuff right there
2:06:45
is also how you said that that you can't ever do enough of it
2:06:51
um can ever go in the wrong direction for too long and unfortunately
2:06:59
hey this this here before right with what you
2:07:05
call the great reconciliation um and what I discovered and what shows
2:07:10
up in the third chapter in the Queen's code that when I was asked to stop castrating men
2:07:18
my first response was for them how I protect myself that's right and then as I felt into
2:07:27
what Ellen Hurst was asking me I saw that I would never
2:07:34
know like intimately I would never know my own power as a woman
2:07:40
as long as I was still in power from that that my ability to take men's power was
2:07:47
not the same as having power and that until I stopped
2:07:54
stealing power from men I wouldn't I wouldn't truly know my own
2:08:00
and it's interesting because when when we get to it
2:08:06
as many differences as there are between many women and I can catalog the
2:08:12
encyclopedias there's a few wonderful just if you the sameness
2:08:18
this sameness is the truth of that true the admiration and respect and
2:08:28
even really liking another human being begins with us
2:08:34
each men and women men or women that we treat ourselves in no way that causes us
2:08:42
to experience respect and admiration and writing ourselves
2:08:47
yes that when we hold ourselves to what we've decided to become our level for
2:08:54
then we interact with other people
2:08:59
with looking for was seeking what can we count on them for and respecting them for that right and liking them for who
2:09:08
they are and admiring them for the ways that are treated themselves but instead we're until we're interacting in that
2:09:15
whole domain we're never going to have the connections that we're looking for
2:09:20
and it
2:09:29
there's something that I want to give to your people
2:09:34
okay um so we'll we'll figure out how to give it
2:09:40
the how of giving it to your people okay
2:09:45
um it's a a webinar that I recorded summer of 21 when I lived here
2:09:55
I've lived here for about eight or nine months and it kept trying
2:10:01
to adapt to something I needed I kept trying to not need it
2:10:06
and as I kept trying to not need it my version of being nice
2:10:12
right I was being nice about something and then I would be the volcano that
2:10:17
erupted about every six weeks because I really needed something to change and I
2:10:24
was trying to get over it and it was something I presented to Dan before I ever met him
2:10:31
I stated this mood and then I was incongruent with it
2:10:37
and as a result of it I produced something called own your ultimate again
2:10:43
I remember you talking about this yes yes and the subtitle is a grown-up conversation with Alison Armstrong about
2:10:51
what you can't live with and can't live in fact and it's it's not long it's not a long
2:10:59
program but it it's it's one I think it's one of the most important that I've
2:11:04
ever done because it has us come to term with ultimatums which ultimatums are
2:11:11
considered a bad word right that sounds like a note to me you're giving me note to me and what it
2:11:18
unwinds is the problem is not whittled to meetings and that ultimatum means your final
2:11:24
offer the problem is
2:11:29
people first of all not being clear about their ultimators and secondly that
2:11:35
when we present our ultimatums to another person
2:11:40
is when we sense that they are attached enough to being
2:11:46
with us to clean it's a weapon
2:11:52
yeah we don't reveal what we need to be
2:11:58
all in this to stay in whatever it is whether it's as an employee an employer
2:12:03
romantic as a parent providing for a child we don't reveal the ultimatum
2:12:09
until we sense the other person will submit to it because of how much they
2:12:15
love us how much they need us how much they value the work that we do that then
2:12:22
they'll find who changed our ultimatum and that's why it pisses people off because of what a manipulation means
2:12:30
coercive instead of leading with them
2:12:36
I have a student in our smart singles intensive who came to Pride himself on
2:12:43
being the most quickly unliked man in online dating
2:12:49
that's the dubious thing to be proud of he was so proud of himself because he was being so true to himself and putting
2:12:58
up right what he was looking for up front what he required and not budging
2:13:05
no matter how attractive he found the woman to be and meanwhile he was also learning to
2:13:11
understand women and how to help them feel safe while being true to himself
2:13:16
and he and he really prided himself on how quickly he got unlike meaning he didn't have to go sorry I mean he didn't
2:13:23
have to go to any trouble to interact with people who ultimately couldn't give him what he needed who oh
2:13:31
I see to account for what he wanted to be held account for and what he was unwilling to be held account for go away
2:13:37
if you're going to try to hold me to come for that I'm not that man got it unliked not disliked
2:13:43
okay like him and then start to interact and then disagree disappear yes and and
2:13:49
he loved it it was his 100 % true to himself but in every
2:13:54
single interaction tune himself to himself to himself which is what Schwartz singles is about on yourself
2:14:00
first or always lost and and so leading
2:14:05
with your ultimatum the owner ultimatums it's the beginning of that it's the
2:14:10
beginning of yes you may be rejected but get rejected when you care more about
2:14:17
liking yourself than being liked by somebody else when you care more about respecting
2:14:23
yourself then being respected by somebody else in other words when you're more loyal to your own requirements
2:14:31
wouldn't care the least about what they think about what you need instead of saving it for when you care the most
2:14:37
yes that's I mean this is this flies in the
2:14:43
face of what a lot of men are taught which is they're not taught that you as a man are allowed to have standards
2:14:49
right like that's that is a controversial idea there's nothing that causes more friction in a lot of online
2:14:55
circles than a man saying these are my standards he's like no you just have to you just have to accept me as I am if
2:15:02
you love me you have to accept me as I am right and and there's a degree in which you're delivering the ultimatum that's the coercive element right where
2:15:08
that shows up later versus if a man or woman can go through the exercise up
2:15:14
front and I think that's at least half of the power of it is to know what they are for yourself even before you meet
2:15:21
somebody like you're walking around carrying this knowledge inside yourself of what your ultimatums are like How
2:15:27
Deeply How Deeply empowering relationally me and my people gladly won't receive that gift
2:15:34
no yeah and then and then the challenge is is to keep being congruent
2:15:41
I I presented my ultimatums early and then I was in congruent I'm trying
2:15:49
to be nice and get over one so I was sending these mixed messages
2:15:55
that I would blow up about this every once in a while but in between I was incongruent
2:16:02
you know the ultimatum was a healthy diet and lifestyle yeah I remember you telling me yeah right and I'd watch him
2:16:08
put crap in his mouth feel terrible look terrible have low
2:16:13
energy right but I wouldn't say it when he was doing it I would just get upset about it every
2:16:19
once in a while ago and I told you this before overnight I require being with someone who has a
2:16:25
healthy diet and lifestyle but then in between I be inconsistent yeah
2:16:31
a disservice right being nice is a disservice being kind
2:16:38
being kind congruency is kind truth is kind yes
2:16:46
it's vital and that's a distinction that a lot of men are beginning to learn is that the opposite of nice isn't mean if
2:16:53
you stop being a nice guy you don't become a mean guy because a lot of men you know they they worry this is the
2:16:59
metaphor that I give the men that I work with because I run into this problem often a lot of guys worry that if they
2:17:06
were they pull the sword from the stone right they've sacrificed their own their own power then they pull the store they
2:17:13
ask themselves not in these words but if I pull the sword from the stone who will I become will I become a tyrant
2:17:20
right that's their worry because they've seen powerful embodied men before B
2:17:26
tyrants either from childhood and maybe not even like major league tyrants but they've experienced a strong embodied
2:17:32
man say crossing a boundary even even accidentally and like I don't want to be that and so to point to paint the
2:17:40
picture for them first of all that that you're even worried about that is proof
2:17:46
that you won't become that because you are the conscientious man who can pull that sword from the stone but the
2:17:52
ability to paint the difference in language between niceness and kindness
2:17:58
really helps crystallize it like you won't you'll stop being a nice guy but
2:18:03
you won't you you will become a kind man right which is which is a far better
2:18:09
posture of strength and being but you have to you have to risk something to do that you have to risk actually having
2:18:16
the sword in your hand and you have to be the kind of conscientious man the now
2:18:21
doesn't keep your power locked away but that keeps it in check and knows where to use it productively it's a whole
2:18:28
greater degree of self-responsibility and and when I when I paint that metaphor for them they get it it doesn't
2:18:35
mean they stop being afraid but they still they still get it because they're taught that the difference between
2:18:40
kindness the opposite of kindness is meanness and that's absolutely not the case but no one's ever painted the
2:18:46
picture for who they'll be as a fully embodied man that you don't lose the best parts of yourself when you take
2:18:52
your power on you enhance them and bring them to reality into manifestation
2:19:00
yay yay I want to be I want to be sensitive to
2:19:06
your time but I have I have three questions that um okay so um and we and I'll tell you
2:19:13
what they are up front I got a couple questions from women that wanted to ask you um about uh the case the kingdom and
2:19:21
then I have I have a question about these 14 different things because it came up in the last conversation and I
2:19:26
think that you've you've teased apart the pieces of the great reconciliation and I wanted to bring it up last time
2:19:32
but I I didn't get like it was one of those things like I watched it go away in the conversation like no come back so I want to get to that but the first the
2:19:39
first question that I got from one of my listeners is in the keys to the kingdom you lay out
2:19:44
the stages of a man's development where a man doesn't feel able uh to provide
2:19:50
for a family and that the woman has to be patient while the man gets to the point where he can become a provider
2:19:55
that he has to feel comfortable within himself and what this listener asked is what if there's a biological component
2:20:01
that's a that's an urgent need like physiologically for her and he doesn't feel like he's there yet how can she
2:20:09
communicate with him or or what's the dialogue that goes in there it's like hey I know that you feel like you're two
2:20:14
years away it it'll be it'll be significantly different for me two years from now like
2:20:20
how did how does she have that conversation what should she say how does that take place
2:20:27
well there's a lot of inquiring to do and it goes back to our conversation about
2:20:34
self-sufficiency because a man being ready for something
2:20:42
he's interacting with his own self-sufficiency can I handle this can I deliver this can
2:20:50
I be all that I need to do there are things that become possible in
2:20:55
Partnership that are Unthinkable and self-sufficiency can I raise a child
2:21:03
no I'm not ready to raise a child okay but are my wife and I ready to
2:21:08
raise a child do we have sufficient communication
2:21:13
skills are we aligned have we had all the conversations about how we would do that like
2:21:20
do I have can I have confidence in us I may not have complete confidence in
2:21:27
myself but I have confidence in US I know she brings out the best of me and
2:21:32
I'd surprise him to the attention and I know she has a limited reproductive lifestyle life cycle
2:21:39
so there's some give and take with medication okay honey there's this one thing I gotta do in the business before I know
2:21:47
I'll have enough bandwidth to be your partner and parenting a child and I want to be your partner I want you to be left
2:21:53
raising your children because I didn't have enough bandwidth to
2:21:59
I gotta get this one thing done which then her question can be so how can I
2:22:04
support you instead of that's stupid right you validate please don't say that indeed
2:22:11
that end of conversation right so there's things that are possible um and then I've interacted with a lot
2:22:18
of women because wanting to be a biological parent is a very strong
2:22:23
Instinct and it it is endangered much earlier in women's chronological lives
2:22:31
than women know into why women start getting wound up at about age 29 because that's when the
2:22:39
body is recognizing the lower levels of estrogen and testosterone which are
2:22:45
provided by that ovum um and they're disappearing right and so
2:22:51
those lower levels are registered as this is an emergency biological need and
2:22:57
we talk about that in understanding women and there are things that can be done if
2:23:02
if there's truly a joint desire and truly a conflict for example to harvest and
2:23:10
fertilize aims but implant them two years later
2:23:15
there are things that can be done but it's something this goes back to that
2:23:20
ultimatums thing we need to have the when of having children conversation
2:23:27
way before way before 30. yeah wait way
2:23:32
way before way before even getting married do you know it's it's something I'm
2:23:37
proud of my son for by the way he two years ago he said I'll be ready to have children in 10 years
2:23:46
he'll be he'll be 42 when he's ready to have children and he's very methodical and thinking about these are the moves I
2:23:53
need to make now in order to be ready to do that when I want to do and and so men have so many plans we
2:24:00
don't even know about that we have to be very safe to find out about um yes oh yeah yeah so I would say how
2:24:08
to have that conversation was it with with a heck of a lot of respect and be very clear what Perkins where her bones
2:24:17
are and have them backed up by facts not just feelings
2:24:23
go to the doctor ultrasound like ovaries what's my biological life here right
2:24:30
yeah I was so happy when I found out I had plumpers
2:24:36
more than I was supposed to have at 42 years old um so
2:24:42
that would be my answer to that question what's your next question
2:24:47
well just to just a tag on my response to the man in that situation if I could
2:24:53
speak to him would be there is a component of wait until you're ready but
2:24:58
men also can fall into a trap of never feeling ready for anything family whatever like I'm not ready I'm not
2:25:04
ready it's like there is a component of no you throw yourself off the cliff and you figure it out on the way down and
2:25:10
making a commitment to a wife and a family has the way of Turbo charging men's focus and productivity because now
2:25:17
I think a switch gets flipped in a man's Minds like now I am responsible and I've made the commitment to be responsible
2:25:23
for something and someone Beyond myself and that only in that leap can you find
2:25:29
the strength to do that so if you're waiting for some external or even internal thing to change and then I'll
2:25:34
be ready no like the actual doing of it creates the Readiness so that's that's
2:25:39
one of the teachings that's going around for men so women have a there's a dialogue dialogue component where it's
2:25:44
like well honey what do you actually need to feel ready and to have him say make it Concrete in a specific thing how
2:25:51
can I help you achieve that and then there's there that triggers a little accountability switch like oh wow okay
2:25:56
that create and that creates you know something tangible to work with and so that's a that's a you know rather
2:26:02
than a woman strategizing well how do I how do I approach how do I confront the enemy about this it's like no you can just say and for for the man to have
2:26:09
faith in the strength of the partnership and the strength of a self and himself and his brothers I think is powerful as
2:26:16
well yes well and what you're touching on is is also one of the obvious
2:26:22
answers what normally happens between men and women
2:26:28
it will seem like the man has to count on himself because because he's not
2:26:34
winning as a husband how is he going to win as a father with the same person
2:26:39
oh good point yes huge huge risk right he's already taken
2:26:46
on providing for her and he's not winging at it mostly because she won't let him mm-hmm
2:26:52
It all becomes internal and um my son's father actually said to me
2:27:00
once that he thought that it was a good thing I'd gotten pregnant because he thought he would never have been raped
2:27:09
okay got it yes yeah yeah and when we got divorced it was when he
2:27:15
actually dedicated himself to fatherhood
2:27:24
um what was your next ingredient next question um
2:27:30
I have been following your work from the beginning of my 10-year marriage your teachings I believe are why I'm still
2:27:36
married I also use the principles with my son I always boost him up with appreciation and I do my best to not
2:27:42
interrupt him when he talks although this one is hard for me what other tools do you recommend while raising a 10 year
2:27:48
old son um
2:27:55
it goes back to our conversation will about accountability or count on ability
2:28:02
and one of the things that we paid attention to is how someone relates to an
2:28:08
accountability has everything to do with how to interact with it so it's like a scale like unwilling to
2:28:17
be accountable we try to hold people accountable who are unwilling to be accountable that's the lowest level of
2:28:24
Duty would be the next level it's my duty as assignments my duty as a father
2:28:29
as a brother as an employer duty is a form of accountability
2:28:36
but at that level it's always going to be only to the standard of the person
2:28:43
who thinks it's a duty they're going to do the minimum of their duties
2:28:48
okay so that is willing to return you're willing to be accountable but
2:28:54
it'll be under certain conditions and then up from that is a request to be
2:29:00
accounted please pick me give that to me to take care and then that and it may be given that
2:29:07
to me to take care of because then I'll know it's taken care of right maybe give that to me to take care of
2:29:13
because I have a vision for it right because I'm capable at that I can get
2:29:18
the job done for the whole team and then up from requested I mentioned before is privileged it would be a
2:29:24
privilege to be accountable for it and as young as probably
2:29:33
um four or five years old it's appropriate to interact with young
2:29:39
people I don't call them children on purpose with young people about what
2:29:44
they can be counted on for and what I need to be able to count on you for are you willing to take that on be
2:29:51
interacted with as account honorable and how could I support you since you're committed to being accountable for that
2:29:58
what do you wish you were interested with if that was your job around here
2:30:03
you see life what do you wish was your job I wished mowing the lawn was my job
2:30:10
but I was a girl and those jobs were given the boys in the 60s I didn't get to mow the lawn or clean the pool I got
2:30:17
to vaccin and dust okay you can imagine my late 50s when I
2:30:24
got to work on my dad's car with him I'm excited I was to be painting the
2:30:31
calipers on his car the matching wreck
2:30:36
Dad I'm working on the so funny so that's beautiful yeah I mean
2:30:45
what he'll be empowered by is be known that he's counted on for what he wants
2:30:51
to be counted him and even what he'd like to grow into being Canada
2:30:58
it's it's tremendously empowering to young people to be held to account
2:31:04
there's so much smarter and more able and powerful and capable than a
2:31:09
different type and that's the way that we must get it yes especially the boys you're a typical
2:31:16
teenager I didn't have typical teenagers
2:31:21
at all I never went there you wouldn't [Music] well but I held my kids to account for
2:31:27
behaving in particular ways I never punished his punishment is
2:31:34
baloney mainly ever had real consequences in it they were finished
2:31:39
the desire to punish is deadly and and Punishment doesn't work
2:31:45
consequences real consequences actual consequences like if you don't get you're if you don't go to school
2:31:53
you end up with a lot of homework yeah yeah I didn't make my kids go to
2:31:58
school they decided to go to school because it was easier to do homework for other teacher was talking about stupid stuff
2:32:05
in the middle of class [Laughter]
2:32:11
accountability I recommend accountability that's great yeah it's um
2:32:17
calling calling to the archetype another book that you you might enjoy if you haven't if you haven't read it is king warrior magician lover by Robert Moore
2:32:24
and Douglas Gillette that's another one it's like calling to that King archetype even within a boy you know calling forth
2:32:30
not just uh when I hear the word Duty I think of something Beyond minimum but I
2:32:36
hear in in your hierarchy of you know that that what I think of of Duty is the privilege to do something like this is
2:32:42
my duty but yes that there's this hierarchy of um hierarchy of accountability we're at the
2:32:48
highest level like I would be privileged to take that on to give it to give a young boy the opportunity to perform to
2:32:55
that standard I mean that would be life-changing stuff for for a little boy especially especially if you give him
2:33:01
the tools to do it well right and he has a father and a mother who supports him in that that I mean absolutely
2:33:10
foundationally formative for his self-esteem and self-respect yes and every word in the language of Heroes
2:33:17
applies that was absolutely in fact I've seen it
2:33:23
a chapter one the word here oh wow wow I've never heard it before
2:33:30
responding the essence of what it is
2:33:36
[Music] yeah it works even with it works even with young boys as well which is such a
2:33:41
profound truth about men that it's it's part of us right it's not it's not something that that Allison came up with
2:33:48
and now that all men have to be taught and then we learn oh yeah it's like no no you've you've you've touched on
2:33:54
something that's fundamental and permanent and true in in the essential masculine makeup of men
2:34:00
then that was the power of it when I read it it's like it was like looking into a mirror and it's still like
2:34:05
looking into a mirror like listening into a mirror right and and that's that's the amazing part of it like I and
2:34:13
you talked about in the very beginning that you channeled you channeled the material or it was given to you whatever
2:34:18
the language is it's a it's a gift it chose to come through you into the world
2:34:24
and and um and the proof of that to me is that it's also blessed you and your life
2:34:32
right like you you received it and it continues to change and transform you and the men who are in your life and and
2:34:38
the women who in your life as well like in your personal life and me and so that's that's the the surest
2:34:43
testimony to the to the essential goodness of what you've discovered um
2:34:49
if I could say something to be complete your question from the father about
2:34:54
appreciation um there are different currencies of
2:35:00
appreciation and we often express appreciation in our own currencies
2:35:06
in it you may not register over there so it's really important to find out how do
2:35:13
you like to be appreciated and accountability can be a form of appreciation
2:35:21
um or it can be insulted haven't I done enough for you
2:35:29
um yeah it's it's one of the things that we have to be sensitive about interacting
2:35:35
with would you would you feel appreciated if that became your job
2:35:42
oh yeah they like you value them you trust me my job no that was fun to do this time
2:35:51
give me something else to do something else to do okay yeah
2:35:57
third question I've been waiting a year to get to say really save the best possible here's the thing
2:36:04
with here's the thing with the great reconciliation that I had realized uh it would have been it would have been
2:36:09
around when we met or after something like that but it was before we had that first Contact podcast conversation I
2:36:15
recognized that in the great reconciliation both men and women have to step into the circle at the same time
2:36:22
there can be no you go first it's like we both have to step into the circle at the same time and let go of a lot in the
2:36:30
spirit of faith and mutual trust and mutual love that it's not just women it's not just men it's both it's
2:36:36
happening simultaneously right and and the profound risk of trust and love and
2:36:43
faith that's embodied and all that and when you said that I realized that in that moment it sounded to me as if you
2:36:50
had taken apart the great reconciliation all the pieces of it and I was like oh I want what's that about and I wanted to
2:36:56
ask and I didn't ask because the conversation of course we went on our big rambling off-road journey and that
2:37:02
whole conversation and then four hours had gone by and it's like and it was gone and so I've had that thought in my
2:37:08
mind for over a year now wanting to talk about that specific thing that that
2:37:13
somehow it seems that you and I are looking at the same thing and that and that you see that you being you and
2:37:19
studying men and women the way that you do you see things at such a high at such a high resolution that I haven't been able to explore but there's something in
2:37:26
that there's something similar that you and I are looking at so I wanted to talk to you about that and and I don't know
2:37:32
if you can talk about what those 14 things are if it's in a course or what you can say about them but
2:37:37
please tell me it's been this giant mystery in my head
2:37:43
um so those Fortune things are in a close
2:37:50
um and I would propose to do them Justice that you and I
2:37:59
um have a different time to talk about okay and
2:38:04
um accountability is one of them
2:38:10
um by choice is the way I would put it it kind of give me my choice not just what
2:38:16
I'm trying to hold this to account for um sufficient clarity
2:38:24
there's a there's a sufficient amount of clarity that's required
2:38:29
um but I want to say something about the step into the room at the same time
2:38:37
because there's two sides of it
2:38:42
um the intent of my work directly on
2:38:47
partnership which there's 14 choices are is for people to embody those choices
2:38:56
and just so you use the word embody for people to embody those choices such that
2:39:02
they become what I call an invitation Department
2:39:08
so we can't make people partner and and not everyone is suited to partner and we
2:39:16
don't need to partner about everything in life we don't need to exclude
2:39:21
self-sufficiency um I think of human beings as as particle and waves
2:39:29
and the engineers we need to take care of
2:39:34
our particle in order to be a contribution to available waves in some
2:39:40
ways we participate in and it's also possible to lead it with um just called transformation
2:39:47
transformation teachers lead waves and
2:39:53
it's so to be an invitation to partner doesn't mean you're always going to get
2:40:01
a yes but until you're an invitation to partner you can't get it yes
2:40:07
and so this is to your your we have to step in at the same time
2:40:15
um we can't we can't control another stepping in we can only control elves
2:40:21
so if you step in as an invitation to partner and you're the only one standing
2:40:27
in the circle for years um we keep being an invitation to
2:40:32
partner but what I discovered once I stopped a masquerading men
2:40:38
is how much men are already an Invitational partner
2:40:43
and it had me inquire yes there are men who are not
2:40:51
they are self-sufficient as a principle even even Greg who had that as part of
2:40:57
his identity there were ways that we could partner magnificently like as parents
2:41:03
um but there's this other thing I want to
2:41:09
offer will and it happened between Dan and I just a short while ago at the
2:41:15
beginning of my five-week kind of vacation where where something happened in
2:41:23
checking into a hotel room in Nashville where he she went completely independent
2:41:30
to solve the problem and he didn't know that I was standing by to help solve it I mean this enormous
2:41:38
Rift I didn't just have my feelings hurt I was completely disconnected and
2:41:47
the way I described it to him the next day was that I I couldn't feel loved
2:41:57
I I could I I felt no love for him and I realized that I couldn't feel loved
2:42:03
period even for myself a really clear sign that I was deep in a
2:42:08
human instinctive reaction and when I told him I couldn't to love for you he said yes I could tell
2:42:16
and I became an island um and so here were these two human beings
2:42:24
in this situation together completely isolated I actually piled up pillows on
2:42:31
the edge of my bed between us like wanted a wall I was so
2:42:38
disconnected from my own spirit and a funny thing that happened the day
2:42:44
before when we were driving to the airport we passed a lake and this Lake normally has an island in the center of
2:42:52
it and I noticed that the water had fallen so low that there was now a land
2:42:58
breach between this island and it the surrounding environment and my remark
2:43:04
was wow I hope there are birds nesting on that island because now the Predators
2:43:10
can get to them through the land bridge and I just it was just an offhand
2:43:16
comment well we didn't speak for a lot
2:43:21
of hours like 16 hours or something we didn't speak to each other sharing a
2:43:27
hotel room about to attend a retreat I'm being Guided by higher consciousness
2:43:37
and I came out of the bathroom and he was standing there and he said can we hug
2:43:45
and I did not want time but we hoped
2:43:51
and it was like two boxes hugging there was no warmth no softness no
2:43:59
Comfort no connection no nothing but I acknowledged him later
2:44:06
for offering the land breach that he had become an island and that in
2:44:14
that moment asking for a hug he had offered a land bridge and even though I didn't want to I
2:44:20
accepted it and that was the beginning of us being able to talk about what had
2:44:26
happened and to sort it out and to reconcile and
2:44:34
we we now have evolved it because you know we we play so so land bridge became
2:44:40
hand bridge when there's a breakdown he'll hold out his hand and Bridge and
2:44:46
I'll take his hand either one I don't want him and we had a breakdown we got back from
2:44:52
my birthday trip to Hawaii so I came out with something that we
2:44:57
normally don't eat a scone for the non-gluten eaters food branch
2:45:04
[Music] and and I it's something that I said years and years ago about in a
2:45:11
partnership he or she who can dance
2:45:18
so if you if you can say I'm sorry if you can say let's talk if you can say
2:45:28
if you can reach out your hand you do reach out your hand
2:45:33
yeah and until we do that we won't know if the other person will
2:45:41
step into the circle until we step into the circle we won't know who it's going
2:45:46
to show and that's what stunned me when I stopped emasculating mine
2:45:53
I thought I'd have to learn how to bring out the prince instead of the fog I'd
2:45:59
learn how to I'd have to learn how to bring out the best sooner when I just stopped taking men's power
2:46:06
I was stunned and continue to be amazed by crew men offer before you're coming
2:46:17
just stop being unkind and find out who mental and so many of you are already in the
2:46:24
circle bewildered why women treat you like enemies
2:46:29
when all you want is good for us and you don't know that how we're
2:46:36
judging you and perceiving you we can't see your goodness because you don't express it like a woman which goes back
2:46:42
to our previous conversation so many men are trying to express it like a woman in order to be seen but it's a betrayal of
2:46:49
yourself and cause you to be even less yes
2:46:55
yes this is why from from the female side of the reconciliation
2:47:06
what I've said for years is is that it's up to us
2:47:11
men are not the source of the Cold War men are not not on the attack men are on
2:47:19
the defense when women stop attacking men this all
2:47:25
mountains they don't have a need for it and it's it's a different word that I use than
2:47:33
powerful in in Partnership power disappears
2:47:40
another way of saying it there's power enough between us that we don't even talk about it we don't even think about
2:47:47
it there's no power of struggle because there's power enough between us
2:47:52
there's no powerful power less power zero there's just us and and ability right
2:48:00
Powers the ability to do or generate a Cause right there's justability and partnership there's a
2:48:06
stability and that's what happens when you stop being afraid of each other and stop taking each other down or when we're
2:48:13
afraid of each other we say so I'm scared and
2:48:19
last year when I produced to own your ultimatums and Dan realized what I was
2:48:25
talking about he's like okay what else on your list will we break up a word I said every single thing yes
2:48:35
each and every one of them including the ones you already are if you stop being that way and you're 42 all together and
2:48:43
and at one point I said I want to run and he said and he reached out and he
2:48:50
said okay take my hand and then we're talking some more and a
2:48:55
little while lady goes now I want to run let's hold both hands
2:49:01
ha that's great what a man
2:49:12
yeah it's so big you know and he generates being that way when I'm at my
2:49:18
worst which is what I realized I needed in a partner was not just someone I inspired to be
2:49:25
great or it can be great when I'm safe but generates being great on their own
2:49:31
when I'm my scariest and my scared which obviously they go together and my skills
2:49:40
which is how to help me
2:49:46
he's got that he's got that strength of Venom to be able to contain that and to be able to respond to that into um
2:49:54
disarm it let's say yeah
2:50:00
so I think we should dedicate its own
2:50:05
session to the great reconciliency okay about add some some homework for you
2:50:13
before and I look forward to the conversation me too me too and and thank you for
2:50:20
pointing something out to me by the way because I I um I know a lot of men who have dealt with
2:50:27
being castrated for for a long time right and and whether they've allowed
2:50:34
them some selves to be or not they've been the recipients of it and they have a lot of distrust of women
2:50:40
um and it's earned it's earned and not only that do they have the distrust of women their
2:50:46
shamed persecuted for even mentioning it for even suggesting that women are anything less than perfect angels that
2:50:53
women have a shadow that women have a dark side that women are unkind or unfair to men they get in trouble for
2:50:58
even saying that and so so they have a lot of earned we'll call it resentment anger towards
2:51:05
women and towards the entire cultural moment that doesn't allow them
2:51:10
to even say this is wrong and bad and so when I say step into this and women of
2:51:16
course have their own culturally um cultivated resentments towards men as we've been discussing
2:51:21
so when I talk about having to step in at the same time I'm speaking to those men that like no
2:51:28
you have to let go of this as well but you help me you help and this is the world that I come from right like not
2:51:34
not where I was born but like the world of the Ben's movement that I've come through with men who have recognized a lot of things that you're describing
2:51:40
haven't been able to put as clear language to them and are like yeah I
2:51:45
don't even know if I I naturally my body want to do this but if I make myself
2:51:51
vulnerable or available to a woman is she gonna bring her daggers into the
2:51:57
circle what's her disincentive from doing that because men can look around and we can
2:52:02
see everywhere in movies and stuff like that where it's like all women got their daggers out hold on while I just
2:52:08
castrate all these men in this new Lord of the Rings series I'm just gonna six episodes of castrating men right and so
2:52:13
men look at that and they're like why should I trust women but you remind me that the men who think about those sort
2:52:20
of things is not all men that there are a lot of men are like look I'm just looking for partnership I'm just here trying to do my thing I want to be a
2:52:27
husband I want to be a provider and there are a lot of men that are already standing in the circle and you remind me of that so thank you
2:52:33
for that because I think that there are some men that I'm trying to encourage to step into the circle because I know many women who are like I'm so ready to step
2:52:40
into the circle well then there's a ton of other people out there men in particular that are like yeah Ma I've
2:52:45
been here I've been holding it down so thank you for reminding me of that you're welcome
2:52:53
I would also say well that part of my intent of the Queen's code specifically
2:53:00
the audiobook is that one way that men can remove it
2:53:08
is once hi honey we're on my last sentence I
2:53:14
think you want to say hi to Will oh cool
2:53:21
she's gotta take this cold close up okay oh you got a Snoopy on the Zamboni
2:53:27
come here honey look at this face what a blessing it
2:53:34
will hey what's up Dan good to see you good to see you
2:53:40
yeah that pillows not actually if you're
2:53:46
falling yeah I'll let you guys get back to it good
2:53:51
seeing your will good to see you Dan okay
2:53:58
um I I believe and I would love for you to
2:54:05
check this out for me I believe in listening to the Queen's
2:54:10
code and Men recognizing their resonance
2:54:16
of Who You Are
2:54:21
that you can also read it or listen to it from the intent to understand
2:54:30
the source of emasculation yes and by doing so when I witnessed
2:54:38
this you literally can become impervious to a masquerade
2:54:45
you can just see it for what it is yeah you can just see oh she's scared out of her lips I can have
2:54:52
this yeah and that that thought I can handle this I can be with this I don't
2:54:59
have to mess with this I don't have to keep to this all of those thoughts literally create themselves
2:55:06
you think you can handle it you can period
2:55:11
and and that's what I wish for men from the Queen's code not only to to see the
2:55:18
the goodness the honor of your own motivations and no longer let them be
2:55:24
attacked when when women are choosing you of baloney right except that just isn't
2:55:30
true not allow it yes and that's the strength that we as women
2:55:36
need we know when we're first set and and we respect the man who doesn't
2:55:43
fall for it I know who you are I know who I am I'm not falling for that
2:55:49
oh really oh thank goodness because we know we're our own worst
2:55:54
enemies so I I I'm working both sides of it for women
2:56:02
to give up justifying emasculating men which is the beginning of curing
2:56:08
ourselves of the habit and the reaction of it and for men to stop falling for it
2:56:17
you you don't have to agree to be a master yes
2:56:23
please decline
2:56:28
women will stop doing it some will
2:56:36
I I give a talk I know you have to go but I gave a talk at a conference in 2021 that I'm going to turn to a YouTube
2:56:41
video about this very subject about how men can stop allowing themselves to be emasculated and where it comes from in women so I'll send that to you when
2:56:48
that's done thank you link to it on our website we can have people watch it
2:56:54
I would love that I would love that thank you so much Alice continued
2:57:01
we'll communicate about that other stuff okay and then and then where would you like to send people
2:57:07
um any links to visit or social media profiles that you'd like um
2:57:13
Allison armstrong.com is easiest place it's the only way it's only a patient get that audiobook mm-hmm
2:57:20
yeah perfect we'll do that thank you thank you thank you Allison I love you I love
2:57:27
you too bye bye
Transcript
0:00
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual vibration
0:08
able to think thoughts and not others the whole capacities that come from
0:13
feeling truly safe nothing contributes to that the same way as one man that you
0:21
know is for you [Music]
0:30
hello and welcome to the Renaissance of men podcast my name is Will Spencer my guest this week is a speaker thought
0:36
leader and best-selling author of the keys to the kingdom and the Queen's code Allison Armstrong in 2018 as I was
0:44
discovering that the men's movement was much bigger than I realized reading Donovan and tomasi and listening to
0:50
Mickler and Peterson I also discovered Allison's books and I saw myself reflected in them to a degree that I
0:57
still find striking it's quite a thing to realize that a woman has just as many good things to say about men as men do
1:03
and perhaps even more but that's the Allison Armstrong and she's quite a thing too and now almost nine years
1:09
after publishing the Queen's code in print she's finally released it in audiobook version and not a moment too
1:15
soon because whether or not people know to call it that the great reconciliation is happening and the Queen's code
1:21
audiobook is here to help us hear and most importantly feel the ways we could be as men and women together in our our
1:28
conversation Allison and I discussed her journey to write and record the Queen's code the difference between needing
1:35
versus being needy how Allison used to treat men at parties long before she wrote the Queen's code the importance of
1:41
discovering our ultimatums or the things in relationship we're not willing to live without why we should all go a bit
1:47
easier on the nice guys and finally stories about her relationship with the man in her life Dan who even shows up at
1:54
the very end to say hi if you enjoy the Renaissance of men podcast thank you don't forget to hit that like button and
2:01
subscribe and share this episode so we can reach more men and women so please join me in welcoming this week's guest
2:06
on the Renaissance of men podcast the best-selling author and voice over artist of the Queen's code my friend
2:12
Allison Armstrong hey Alice and welcome back to the podcast thank you I'm so glad to
2:20
glad to be well I want to say congratulations you are now uh Far and Away my number one podcast of all time
2:25
first first podcast across 5 000 downloads which is pretty incredible when you think about it was like four
2:31
four hours long so it's really cool to see like they'll
2:37
just spike out of nowhere like hundreds of downloads in a month like someone must share it somewhere it's it's really
2:42
cool to see that just how how long the legs have been for that conversation wow well I I mention you a lot as well
2:51
so I don't know if people go looking at that point but um we have extraordinary conversations ever
2:58
since the first run for the Renaissance of men that's right that's right it seems to be a habit
3:07
well congratulations also on the release of the Queen's code audiobook which I finished listening to and you know as I
3:13
mentioned I've read the print the Kindle version I read the book a couple times but hearing it read in your voice
3:22
Blended a whole new shade of meaning to some of the interactions between the
3:27
characters your characterizations of them and and the meaning behind the words to really
3:33
um it brought it to life in a very different way from your imagination rather than just me imposing my
3:38
imagination on it and both are equally valid um so what was that process like for you recording the audiobook
3:48
it was it was intense it was emotional as you can hear my voice sometimes it
3:54
was yeah um there are a couple of things that were
4:01
on it like how did that happen but it goes back to
4:08
um as you know I started studying men in 1991. right right
4:15
um the the scene in the first chapter of keys of the Queen's Community actually
4:20
happened but the scene in the in the first chapter the things but it it happened to
4:26
me my my colleague co-worker kind of friend was called a bug phone and
4:34
um and I had the division that Kimberly is expressing and and then as I realized
4:43
you know I oh my gosh I'm really a friend from I'm a very successful
4:48
I prided myself in the way I thought of it as getting men to show their true
4:56
colors yeah um within like 10 days
5:01
yeah industrial frog farmer oh my gosh I did not want to fall in love again and
5:09
um and so I you know I had come to the conclusion that men are cons and
5:15
um and I want to reveal a con before I fell for it and it
5:22
it didn't include any that I had anything to do with the version of every man I was getting I thought that was the
5:29
real notion which I now equate to kicking a dog and then the dog when it
5:35
bites you or it runs away or it runs away and invites you and bites you and then runs away all those versions can
5:42
happen and um but this question popped into my head as I was sitting there
5:47
confronting it and the question was what if men are responding to women and and you know I've talked about that
5:54
question right and it's worth listening to those conversations in the in your in the podcast but when we did before
6:01
but that's really the beginning of a lot of strangeness that I'm only now coming to
6:08
terms with strangeness strangeness like that question popped into my head
6:16
where did that question come from that's always a question right yes yes and
6:22
that's what I've been delving into and and including other questions that have
6:31
guided my research that I thought I thought of that
6:36
question maybe the question thought of you
6:41
could be yes yes and but in this in the story of the Queen's code other strangeness I could never I never
6:49
questioned like these questions popping in my head what am I responding to women and then when Greg did something that
6:56
was just outrageous to me the question what if there's a good reason for that
7:01
um which led to all my research on that everybody everybody man or woman only
7:08
ever does what's important to them yeah ever and and to all the things we
7:15
think we should do that we haven't done they just haven't risen to the level of importance right and and that happened
7:22
because Greg you know knocked over a blender of mine left it broken on the floor
7:27
single Focus too extreme he was trying to get he was trying to catching that plane and um okay I get it yeah and then
7:36
what if no one's misbehaving including you right there's another one that popped in and then a few years ago
7:43
just right out of my mouth honor yourself first or always lost
7:48
and so these kinds of things that popped in right and
7:54
um so that's where my research began right what if men are responding to women and within
8:01
um that was 1981 within a year of that I had
8:07
um been asked to stop castrating men literally put that way um and had done had done so
8:15
um seeing what happens when we don't interact with men by handling their
8:21
power and then we'll talk um I had met Greg I my not yet husband
8:26
but soon to be um and I come to the conclusion that the
8:32
things that I learned in that year had to do shift that I I had to write a book
8:38
I have to put this in a book um but I
8:44
I talked to somebody about it and he told me how to tell whether I had enough material for a book and um if you have
8:50
more than 10 chapter titles you can do a book and I did definitely a
8:57
year in and it was shortly after that that I was
9:03
um meeting Greg's family and talking to his
9:09
um his sister of mine I could tell that her marriage was in trouble I've been watching the way they're interacting I
9:15
was watching you she talked about him I could tell like discussing he's the kingdom I could tell if he had become a
9:22
king and she hadn't caught up with that his needs were very different than the
9:28
20 years that they had been to raised a family together and she was an Adaptive and this this was gonna this was having
9:36
a huge effect and it could get worse and I I tried to tell her about it I tried
9:41
to tell her about the stages of development and she basically wasn't listening she
9:47
just didn't care and then I switched over to telling her story
9:52
and it's just this funny little story a friend of mine and I made up um called The Princess and the swamp rat
9:58
[Laughter] all right all right let's see where this
10:06
goes let's go back dude if you wanted to hear the story of The Princess and the song but I'll tell you the story but all of a
10:13
sudden I kind of do I all of a sudden I had a complete attention and and we were shopping together and
10:19
you know girls can talk and shop and but now she's paying attention and then her husband comes to pick us up give us a
10:25
ride back to the family reunion and and she's like sketch Allison's telling me the story let her finish and that's when
10:34
I got it oh how whatever this book is it needs to be a stolen
10:41
and oh okay yeah that's where it came from this is this has got to be a story
10:46
because we can hear things when we're not in the hot seat right when someone's saying you you are
10:53
doing this and don't do this this or this it's very hard to learn it's very hard to let our guards down it's very
11:00
hard to let our point of view be altered so
11:05
actually that the the next day we were driving home
11:10
and I was writing like the story started showing up and I was writing it
11:16
literally on a shopping list a brown paper shopping list oh wow it was just
11:23
coming out and I was writing writing writing and as I did that which was ended up just being the first couple of
11:29
chapters I don't even not even chapter like paragraphs and I don't even know where they ended up because what happened when I came to write the book
11:36
but it became obvious as I was doing that that I didn't know how to read it
11:41
but I already used what I learned about men against men that hurt me badly once
11:48
I found out how you really motivated Kryptonite and and that I
11:55
I needed to write a book that at that time I thought it was just for
12:01
women I didn't know well how much it would affect me and
12:06
I needed to write it and confirm oh my gosh the whole other thing we could talk
12:12
about but it yeah I'm sure we will since you since you listened to it but it read it in and listened to it and
12:18
so as I I realized that I needed to know more I needed to know more about
12:24
one what triggered women to masturbate nothing and
12:30
and to how they did it all the different ways that they did it and three and
12:36
maybe most importantly how they Justified yep yep
12:43
I needed to know a whole lot more about that and then fourth what are you doing
12:48
today right since the masculation comes from fear and frustration
12:53
what are you doing instead how do women emasculate men because they think that's
12:59
the only way to get what they need and even though it doesn't work they don't have an alternative so I had to figure
13:06
out all four of those things and that's when I told my best friend
13:12
um I think I need to do a workshop in order to learn how to teach this so that
13:21
I can write the book and
13:27
so we we did that starting in January of 1995. I didn't know it would take
13:35
almost 15 years of doing those workshops before one evening I knew I knew how to
13:43
write the book like like I I'd gotten enough of all those four things in all
13:48
these different expressions from thousands of women and contributions of
13:54
hundreds of men I knew I finally knew how to write it and so I wrote a book I
14:00
wrote a book proposal right chapter by chapter and this will be about this and that'll be about that and then we you
14:07
know went me and my agent went to New York and we had a bidding you know for
14:12
the for the publication of the book and that's very very exciting to talk about it but it does for your ego because of
14:17
bidding on your book and and you know and I chose the editor that
14:23
I loved the most about the most resonance with and and then sat down
14:29
to write the book and then that's when it got really strange which had happened
14:35
before she's the kingdom but I I didn't trust it to happen again
14:40
and that was you know I sat down to write and it literally occurs like it's
14:46
it's like this big but this big and it's right here and a
14:52
movie screen opened and a movie started playing and I started typing
14:59
and I didn't know the word channeling then and I still don't trust that word
15:04
it seems weird yeah to me and I what the heck is that I just know that
15:10
[Music] that no one can write a 96 000 word book
15:16
in three weeks it's it's pretty fast yeah and I oh I didn't read it I just
15:24
watched the movie and typed as fast as I could and it it was weird it was like trying to write a screenplay from a
15:32
movie right so then backwards backwards yeah just trying to describe what I was
15:40
seeing like like how do you describe this
15:45
how do you know you describe that yeah and and yeah and then it was it was also
15:53
really you know he's the kingdom which was what
15:59
I knew I could write at the time years before like 15 years ago a lot of many
16:04
years before 2003 I that ran as a movie too and that's
16:10
like 42 000 words and it I it all got typed up in like eight dates but I I
16:17
kind of forgot how weird it was never
16:22
what I know this is well I'm coming more to terms with the
16:29
strangeness of my life and because you know became stranger um when my husband died and and so
16:39
it's actually been um stunning and you had asked what it was like to do the audiobook
16:46
so I've done three book clubs I think before that two or three book clubs at
16:51
The Shift Network which meant I re-read the book to prepare for every session
16:57
every chapter with with the participants and even reading the book was there kept
17:05
being things that surprised me I didn't know that was taught in this book I didn't know we did that in this book I
17:12
didn't I don't remember that happening and and then when I was recording the
17:18
audiobook two things one was it was
17:24
so much more intense like like I just I I just
17:32
conveying the story reading the story consistent with how I watched it right
17:40
um I realized oh my gosh the emotion the the pain The Joy the struggle like
17:49
everything is so much more intense in me reading the story to to everybody
17:57
and and I was like matching the movie that I
18:02
watched right and the movie was Vivid for me as I was reading it even though
18:08
every part I was reading I didn't remember was in there right and and when I was typing up the
18:17
movie like people have asked me so how did you pick these eight characters I did it no
18:24
why did you have the story evolved like this I did it couldn't tell you
18:31
I did it I transcribed the moon I did all the research I mean I did everything
18:39
in in the Queen's code is validated by real life research that
18:45
I did is it anything in there that is outrageous outlandish Unthinkable no
18:51
it's all based on real research and the characters in the story
18:59
are just themselves and which was then what happened that was really now this
19:06
is odd upon Odd as I was um as I was doing the audio recording and
19:13
sometimes I just have to stop because I was overwhelmed with emotion and there
19:19
was one particular time that I just I I lost it do you know
19:26
um oh my gosh um just so you're not distracted by
19:33
wondering uh it's the part when Bert confronts Claudia about how exhausted
19:41
teaching it is for her and what you see him happening to her and she as he's
19:49
making he wants to make a deal as he's as he's making a deal with her
19:58
um and telling her what she she needs and what it would provide um at the end of that you might remember
20:05
he says I'm not done meeting you you know remember that yeah
20:13
I I don't know how long it took and how many times I had to retake that to get through it because I didn't know that
20:20
that was in the Queen's code and that was what I was literally screaming at
20:27
Greg while I was trying to bring him back from the heart
20:35
if I was doing my version of superior that's watched on TV what it didn't
20:41
matter if I could have done it right it was a triple explosion in his chest but that's what I was yelling at him I'm not
20:47
done anything yet I just reading that in a book oh oh my
20:54
gosh and so that wasn't even another strange part
21:01
I wanted to tell you the other Strange point was and I don't know how this happens how
21:07
does a movie change so as I was recording the audiobook
21:14
you know this about me right I have this thing about truth right and Truth has a
21:20
Inlet they can't authenticity has a has a feel to it and
21:27
um what I call Old brain when someone's not present when someone's not present
21:33
and they're just speaking rotely about something they're used to speaking about or words that don't really mean anything
21:41
to them anymore they don't stand out it has this quality I call I call Old brain it's kind of it's fake okay and I can
21:49
hear it and people aren't learned right when they're when they're an old brain they're not learning who needs all that
21:54
new girlfriend I see I see yeah so so I just I just had this feel first up and
22:02
it took a long time for me to figure out that it only happened when
22:07
Claudia was speaking and I had to retake Claudius parts
22:16
um it ended up taking usually four times I would have to redo it before it had
22:24
the resonance of what she meant yep that makes sense yeah you live in that material well what
22:32
was strange was that I would do it the way that I heard it
22:38
the way that I heard it when I first transcribed the book I would say it that way and it wouldn't be right and I'd say
22:46
it again and so on here I'll say it again and always when it was finally right Claudia had changed in the 10
22:55
years since I watched the movie Claudia changed she was both more
23:01
intense more playful and more compassionate
23:06
then then the person I watched in a movie
23:13
how does that how does that happen but but I kept doing it until it felt
23:21
right and and it was delightful to me to see what had happened to her
23:28
some people might say that's also happened to me that was going to be my question
23:33
well that's another thing that's odd about the Queen's code is you know when I started studying men I
23:41
was Melissa I I was that awful
23:48
incomprehensible it right was that hurt I was that bitter I
23:54
was that vengeful and antagonistic I I was
24:00
Melissa and then and then I became Kimberly when I found out I was a frog
24:05
farmer and got curious right um and Karen I never really was Karen I
24:13
just taught a lot of kittens right um but then here here I was reading this
24:20
last year and I had become more cloudier
24:26
got it 30 years of teaching this material and the vastness right because
24:32
I've never stopped researching um
24:38
so I just kept thinking as I was recording
24:43
it that I I wanted it just kept I just kept hearing I want to be there for people I want to be there for people and
24:51
because how intense it is and how quickly you get to chapter three [Laughter]
24:58
I had months before I got to chapter three in my life when I was studying
25:04
yes yes yeah folks are having like four hours of
25:11
listening to the book before they get to chapter three Inner Path to completely
25:19
alter the way that they're interacting with themselves and others and and I
25:25
just kept thinking I got I gotta do that for them I want to be there for them and I um I just started last week the second
25:33
time I caught your Quince card Journey because everyone has a different Journey now I'm looking forward to hearing about
25:38
yours and everyone's is different and I just wanted to be there to answer their
25:45
questions right just like like Karen and Kimberly got to ask all their questions before
25:51
they took the big the laying down the sword I right yeah I wanted my people to get to do
25:59
that and I did it over the summer and I just started doing it for the second time because it's it's such an amazing
26:05
thing to do and and I'm I'm still learning from the klinska that's what
26:13
that's another strange thing yeah me too me too your third time my third time
26:23
so tell me about it my Queen's code Journey follow-up question yeah yeah and before we do that is there a do
26:30
you have a fan in there or something like that oh let me fix that let me okay okay good no problem sorry about that
26:37
that's okay that's believe me I've had way worse situations to work with in
26:43
podcasts before so this was this was an easy fix Okay so
26:48
um you know my you asked about my Queen's code journey and yeah there's a couple there's a
26:55
couple things I want to point out before I answer that question first is that
27:00
um you started writing and thinking about writing about about men in the 90s now most people who are in what we call
27:08
the Men's movement now didn't start doing that until like 2005 2010 I mean
27:14
you had guys like Robert Bly and Warren Farrell and and uh Douglas uh uh Douglas
27:20
Wilson and and Robert Moore Douglas Gillette sorry um doing it in the early 90s but you
27:26
started as far back as then and I don't know that that's appreciated enough that you've been doing this longer than most
27:32
men have been doing it which I think is is pretty remarkable so that you've had 30 or so years to develop which I think
27:38
is what gives your work the power that it does and um and it's so strange that you've been doing it for so long but you
27:45
go talk to men about like no no I've never heard of Allison Armstrong but then there's all these other people over here who have so you know that's always
27:51
very cool and then I think the other thing is that you know the The Queen's code audiobook
27:57
is what almost 11 hours long just over 10 hours long yeah right and so you're talking about
28:03
multiple takes I mean I can imagine it must have taken you 40 hours or so probably to try and record it I mean at
28:10
least you know if you're trying Claudia over and over again and Claudia talks a lot in the book as it turns out
28:17
um I don't know I'd have to look at the bill from the sound engineer
28:24
I just know that there were there are whole parts that I didn't have to do multiple things
28:31
got it it was usually just climbing okay um and
28:39
[Music] yeah it it it probably I'm trying to
28:46
think how many weekends do you spend doing that there's probably about 20 hours of me recording but then we I had
28:53
multiple people listened and um and and went back and did retakes and
29:02
things to um and just things that like squeaky chairs there's no such thing as I'm not
29:09
screened here no such thing even in a professional Sound Studio yes yeah so so
29:17
there were there are a lot of people who participated in the quality of it and
29:22
you know had them um the last one had literally Bose
29:28
headphones on and she was I was having her listen for anything that would
29:34
distract people from The Experience they were in happened to them right
29:41
had someone munching next to you with some popcorn in a movie right right I for some reason I guess I
29:48
had pictured you recording it at home but if you actually went into an audio like a professional studio that makes
29:54
sense that makes sense too that must have been a very different experience actually because I could picture you at
30:00
home in in your home studio or something like that recording it privately but to be in a professional studio recording
30:06
that stuff in front of other people must have been that must have been an experience I have to ask about that
30:13
because I just pictured you doing it alone and being able to have your own kind of experience re-encountering and
30:18
trying to embody some of the things the characters are saying and the story itself but it was actually a shared
30:24
experience in a way like that must have been that must have been a whole other thing
30:29
well it it habits its moments um his name is Steve Boynton and
30:36
um Dan found him for me he did a great job the audio sounds incredible yeah
30:42
thank you he he was amazing I never met him before scheduling to do this
30:50
um it's actually what had me end up moving one of the things that the impetus for moving the steamboat oh was
30:58
I already needed to be here for periods of time to do the recording and um and
31:05
so I moved here in the middle of it based on other things and uh
31:10
and so he was he was someone who didn't know me he didn't know my work or
31:16
anything about it um he didn't even really follow along in
31:21
this story um in the beginning she was just being technical right and and it wasn't until
31:30
later on um one of the times that that the emotion
31:38
um came through I think it was Kimberly's emotion that came through and I and I said I said I I think I need to
31:46
do that again and and he actually said it sounded right like what happened
31:53
but but then something would happen it was very much further along in the bucket and he's like I don't think you
32:01
need to it fits and search the way he listened to change that's great
32:06
um but he was present for I mean there literally were times I just broke down and silent and and he just he's waiting
32:15
until I recovered myself um
32:27
part of what would have me end up be emotional will is that
32:33
is that however they do it um those the characters those people
32:40
exist and um when I was transcribing to the
32:47
kingdom like one morning I I woke up and
32:53
um I think you you you're right he's the Kingdom right or did you listen to it I read that first okay good yeah I like it
33:00
for people to read it first but they don't they don't have to and um so that was also a movie right and I
33:07
didn't decide on those four characters and and then for them those four to go
33:13
on and become eight but when I was writing he's the kingdom like I woke up one morning and I knew
33:21
that today was the day that Karen was going to see the table right the table
33:27
okay this table keeps getting referred to right yeah and um
33:32
and I just knew there was something special about this table but I didn't know what it was because
33:38
because I'm just transcribing the movie and I woke up that morning I thought oh
33:44
Karen's gonna see the table today and I said out loud do you think you should show it to me
33:51
and then boom I saw the tape right and and just
33:58
oh my gosh right I didn't see Kimberly's chair so Kimberly saw hurt you oh and
34:07
and tell her and Karen and Bert were standing in front of the chair and she was asking him about it right and why he
34:12
did it I didn't know any of that and but what happened
34:20
what happens is is that I can check in with them so I'm about in the first trimester
34:29
pregnant with the sequel movement and
34:35
um and it's tempting for me to see if I can only do it in an
34:40
audiobook instead of a pre-book because now I know how different
34:47
my conveyance of this story is from someone reading it to themselves and
34:54
um this beautiful woman in South Africa her name is Candice um
34:59
what she expressed to me and talking about having read the Queen's bed which she did a few years ago and then
35:05
listening to it she said and it was so shocking to me I can't
35:11
quote her accurately I need to go back and listen to it but it was to the effect of she said Allison I realized
35:17
that I didn't read the men's parts
35:24
to myself the way that you do because of my prejudice against men that
35:33
they would never be that I think she said that sincere or that
35:40
emotion and I and that's when I realized oh my
35:46
gosh everyone who's read the Queen's code since it was published in 2012
35:52
right everyone which is I don't somewhere over a hundred
35:58
thousand people have read it to themselves we don't know the exact number because right when we originally
36:05
printed it we made it possible for people to download it and print out as many copies as they want
36:12
oops I mean cool but oops it wasn't a Hoops I did it on purpose oh okay okay
36:18
yeah I you know I've expressed it as uh you know my goal is to be those
36:24
pirated author what you wish for well
36:31
I I am and people actually I'll say how did you how did you find out about me and they'll be like I'm sorry
36:39
my friend made a copy of the NSYNC CD and gave it to me okay it's cool
36:48
originally published please to the kingdom we people um people got a PDF
36:55
and it came with a letter that said um well we hope you'll let your friends
37:01
and family buy their own copy of Tuesday Kingdom if you just can't help it I
37:07
forgive you in advance I just would say
37:16
and I don't know how many people did that but I'm a messenger right so get the message
37:22
out and people passing secret notes so sometimes one of the best ways to do it and
37:29
anyhow my point was where I started out with is I can I can check in I can check
37:35
in with the storm and it's like they give me movie trailers
37:42
of the of what's to come oh
37:47
there we go [Laughter] yes yes and so I knew before recording
37:55
the audiobook last year I knew that the next book starts a year after the
38:02
Queen's code minutes it's it's been it's been a year and and
38:09
I know it starts with the characters reflecting back on all that happened for
38:14
them in that year and how excited they are now that they the the lessons
38:22
um yeah so there's things that I know are going to happen that colored me
38:30
recording the audio oh sort of like you were foreshadowing almost in a way well I just knew but
38:38
when I originally transcribed it I didn't know that that was going to
38:43
happen now I know things that are going to happen that I didn't know and it changed
38:51
um yeah well I think it's you asked me about my Queen's code journey and I'm actually
38:57
really enjoying hearing about your Queen's code Journey right because most
39:02
people don't really have well I can't say that but you know it's a book your books profoundly impacted me
39:10
and um and I want to talk about that in a second but it's really amazing to hear the way that your own books have
39:16
impacted you and and I think that's the thing that really came through in listening to the
39:23
audiobook was that I know you and we've spent a lot of time talking and I could listen into the audiobook and I could I
39:30
could hear inflections in your voice and the way that you would say things I was like okay I bet that was a pretty meaningful kind of moment or hear you
39:38
smiling in some ways and it was like okay and so so I got a hint of it but to
39:43
hear the way that it's evolved for you over 30 or so years since your initial
39:48
being called a frog farmer and you told me that that was a real story and and
39:54
um the story about the snap shirts right right
40:00
yeah yeah okay so can you tell can you tell that story real quick because I
40:06
think it really it's like a point A to point B C D kind of thing where it's
40:12
like to imagine to know you now and to read the ways that you write and think
40:17
and teach about men and and to read the way that you to hear you tell the story of the way that you were yeah it's one
40:25
of those things like how does a person get from there to from from point A to point B so if you tell the snapshot
40:31
story because I think I think it'll really impact a lot of people to hear that
40:36
um oh boy well I don't know if I gave you this
40:41
background when I told it to them um
40:47
so I always 17 and by then I'd already
40:53
concluded that men are bigger and stronger and they'll hurt them
41:01
and so I'd already unconsciously taken up
41:09
disempowerment and and my
41:15
Forte if you will um
41:20
[Laughter] Forte and disempowering Men exactly so
41:28
if I forte in this empowering men was keeping men off balance
41:35
hmm so um yeah it can feel yourself into that's
41:42
a certain way of being disempowered so it wasn't it was rarely a direct hit
41:49
it was just a sense that if I could tell when a man was on tilt like tilt like
41:54
just tilted on one foot again couldn't attack I felt safe when he couldn't
42:01
get his bearings when he couldn't to piss back together that's when I felt
42:07
safe and so the way that it manifested in
42:16
1978 was going to parties and I um I had
42:23
been challenged uh by a friend to not drink
42:28
and um and so I wasn't I I was at a I mean
42:33
people 17 year old shouldn't be drinking anyway but never mind that
42:38
so I so I wasn't drinking and I would do it even when I was drinking I I so I
42:45
carried I had a bottle of beer I filled it with water but I had a bottle of beer because I was tired of people asking me
42:51
why I wasn't drinking and um and it was the era of you know of
42:59
Urban Cowboy and snap shirts and actually wearing I'm
43:05
wearing one I'm wearing one I didn't plan this
43:11
didn't plan it yeah and I yeah and I had a particular um
43:18
disdain if you will for athletes um to me they're in the most full of
43:25
themselves the most like mean and inconsiderate and and so they were like
43:32
they were my Target and um and I think at that particular party
43:39
I think I got at least three like a couple of swimmers you know oh man
43:45
[Laughter] and I as you know I I would walk up to
43:52
them and they'd have a beer in their hand and I'd ask them could they please hold my beer and they would go okay and
43:58
they'd reach out take my beer now they have both hands full and I would just reach out and go
44:04
and snap all the snaps on their shirt and I actually was shocked the first
44:11
time it had been because these were it might be these were peacocks right Easter yeah these were
44:18
these young men who walked around like I'm all that and so when I you know
44:25
ripped open their shirt revealing their pecs and abs that they worked so hard on I expected them to be I thought they'd
44:33
be cool about it right but when they weren't when instead they went like this
44:39
two beers in the beers foaming out trying to conceal themselves
44:46
um yeah I thought it was hilarious and and I felt safe and I felt like I put these
44:54
I'll spare the word I had a bad word for them I yeah I put
45:00
them in their place and I just thought that I said after that and go on with what I was doing and
45:07
it's funny you asked me to tell it to you well because because I mean knowing what I know now and how
45:17
how much that um that how much the posture right how
45:22
much the posture that I interpreted as such egotism
45:29
um is really more the posture of a warrior on guard
45:34
and part of being on guard is to reveal nothing that could be used
45:40
against you and and women don't know that if you
45:48
share something meaningful to you with us and we share it with other people
45:54
that we have just revealed you um and that's a betrayal for a man yeah
46:01
and so yeah so for me to do that with their shirt and reveal them when they
46:09
weren't in that state because literally they were helping me in that moment would you hold this for me sure
46:16
right I like cut the best part of them and then used it against them and I I
46:23
didn't know any of that [Music] it's pretty incredible to think that
46:28
that's where you started doing that because you know I can imagine that there are a lot of women
46:34
who keep men off balance or who don't respect men or like men or have many
46:41
negative beliefs about them about men but would never go so far as to do something like that like to actively
46:48
like it's one thing to say something at a man like like um you know kind of you know to shame a man like in a checkout
46:54
line or something like that Supermarket or wherever it shows up right it's something else entirely to walk up to a
47:00
man and actually rip his shirt open it's a snap shirt so you're not ruining a shirt right but like there's another
47:05
thing to actually physically interact with a man and that way to sort of cross that boundary like that's a degree of
47:11
like I can't even fathom that happening now again it's at a party and stuff like
47:17
that and you know it's it's a kind of a it's kind of a different kind of environment than just doing it you know at the at the mall or something like
47:23
that like hey buddy you know very different but still that that you were that forward about it and and almost
47:30
Unapologetic and at the time Unapologetic right
47:37
and even after the third time you did it he stopped doing it but after the third time was there any feelings of remorse
47:43
like maybe I shouldn't have done that or was like yeah I do this to guys for fun
47:48
oh that was just three times at that point
47:54
you said what
48:05
I'm in a minute with that
48:13
um I mean I I have my first crush on a boy
48:21
when I was seven okay and
48:32
probably even younger my first like a real Crush would have been with my with my big brother you don't think of it as
48:38
a crush but you know my brother was 15 months older than me and I just wanted to be with him
48:44
I didn't I just wanted to follow around with the news there's this amazing space about him
48:51
even as a child I just even though he sometimes it was so cool to me I just
48:57
would always go back to wanting to follow him around and and you know I
49:02
wanted to play with Chris and um
49:08
and my you know my father my father adored me he wasn't around much
49:15
um but when he was he was he was so kind
49:21
you know like there are things I wanted to do like I wanted to learn cursive
49:26
and at school they said I wasn't old enough to learn cursor they wouldn't teach me
49:32
and so my dad sat down and taught me cursing
49:38
and um I think I I mean I just I just always
49:45
loved men I always loved boys I always would rather be with boys and with girls
49:53
and and I always had one girlfriend one best girlfriend
49:59
um but I I'd rather play with the boys you guys to wave
50:05
sometimes and um
50:10
but that feeling that way made me really
50:16
vulnerable and and also if you think of the time when I grew up right I was born in 1960
50:24
so I was becoming right so I was becoming a
50:32
a young woman at a time when when the old rules and stereotypes which
50:41
my mother was part of right a homemaker and uh and women's Liberation and
50:51
Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better which my mom danced around and sung in the kitchen
50:57
and uh the messages right to the message of
51:03
Barbie dolls and you can run a truck through her thighs so
51:11
yeah right yeah yeah introduce thigh gap to women and had us believe we're
51:17
supposed to have that and and and just this this message from my
51:24
mother who was so pissed at my father for not giving her the fairy tale life
51:30
she thought she was signing up for and her own
51:36
intellect that didn't
51:43
how women were thought of at the time do you know didn't have a full expression so she mostly hid it and was conniving
51:52
and and this this message that that really
51:58
as a woman you have to have a man who's your man where's your man you
52:06
don't what you don't have a man you've got to have a man Barbie's gotta
52:11
have a Ken and where's Skipper's boyfriend
52:16
who's skipper Skipper's by his little sister oh okay
52:22
Barbie had a Ken blonde Ken brunette Ken but she could pick her Ken before we had
52:30
to have a kitten so you have to have a man but don't ever need him
52:41
yes and make sure he knows you don't mean to him
52:48
yeah mission accomplished yes yes and but
52:55
the the the conflict right you gotta have one but never need him
53:01
and and then as I started studying then finding out and then would just throw it
53:08
they they would just throw the comment off they didn't know it was earth-shattering
53:14
to say something like well she didn't need it she didn't need me so I but for
53:20
someone who did it in direct conflict with what I was
53:26
taught and what so many women to the Sea are proving I think think that the less
53:32
I need you the more attractive I will be to you um
53:37
exactly so we we have my friend who use this works conflate we
53:45
have completed meeting and needy oh that's great yes that's great so
53:54
women are terrified of being perceived as needed being perceived as weak and
54:01
needy and so instead of addressing that like
54:07
we started asking men what what does meeting mean to you
54:16
and one man the way one man put it was maybe is when you can't handle the basic
54:24
components of life yes
54:29
yeah and that's completely different than never
54:36
needing something from another human being never needing help for example right or and it's the source
54:45
of as gets talked about in the Queen's code the source of women not asking for
54:51
help in a way that's dignified supportive empowering
54:57
um other people can win at providing it right because we don't ever want to need help we don't ask for help
55:03
in a timely way or with respect and then we end up needing to be saved because
55:11
we've got to know our head and then we're pissed at the lecture saving comes with which the queen codes illuminate
55:17
why the lecture um and and it just ends up
55:24
it just ends up making it worse right getting a lecture for needing to
55:29
be saved has us it reaffirms never needed me because they'll be attached
55:37
in instead of understanding really how huge the difference is and what it means
55:42
to a man who's instinctually always
55:47
exercising discipline about a limited amount of time and money and energy and
55:52
that is really invested in his plans and something that he's got enough to his
55:59
plan in order to keep someone who cares about from a big consequence
56:04
that yeah that's going to come with a lecture yes ask me sooner I could have planned
56:10
on this and I would have been happy to provide I didn't know any of that
56:15
sure I mean you know but but as Claudia illustrates in the Queen's code that
56:20
that inheritance and I think that's the that's the power of of Claudia as a
56:26
character is that she's talking about nine generations of inheritance about how men work that got lost in Myra's
56:34
generation who I assume is the baby boomer generation right that's sort of around that time roughly right like in
56:40
that in that you know she's probably born or born around the same time as you are somewhere somewhere in that range
56:45
right that there's this all this wisdom nine Generations is what like a couple hundred years 300 years maybe of
56:51
information about men it's even more than that's it Generations used to be measured in 25 years and Claudius
56:58
family's been at it for 500 years 500 years okay so here's foreign
57:05
so here's 500 years of knowledge about how men work that is the entire inheritance is just discarded by her
57:12
daughter like whatever I don't have any need or want for it and so it's not like
57:17
Allison Armstrong is Conjuring this stuff up out of nowhere like you've spent centuries yourself studying men
57:23
and women and you figured it out it's like no this inheritance this knowledge about men was there it was understood
57:28
how women can relate to men and how men can relate to women how men can relate to themselves that's a whole other thing
57:34
and it was just thrown out it was just thrown out in favor of um
57:39
I like how you said needing versus needy I like that distinction the one that I
57:45
that I talk a lot about is um equality versus sameness like that's another
57:51
that's another thing that gets conflated and then and then there's also um strong and independent versus soft
57:58
and self-sufficient and it's that it's that independent like what you're looking for is not a woman who's
58:03
independent doesn't need a man but she can take care of herself she's self-sufficient right and so I really
58:09
like that you added that third piece needy needing versus needy right because
58:14
there's there's a big difference for a man in there there's a huge difference in can I
58:22
I mean I've can I talk about the independence and self-sufficiency yeah please please
58:28
um my my mother used to say to me when I
58:34
was wanting to be married again so I got married
58:39
when I was 23 in and that was the man to whom I was with Melissa because he
58:46
didn't do anything husbands are supposed to do and is that is that because he actually didn't or that's because what you
58:52
thought you thought he did like Melissa Scott's doing a decent job but Melissa's just cutting him off of
58:58
the knees every chance she gets right well the important part of my sentence
59:03
is what I thought he should do that's what I yeah okay yeah so
59:11
he wasn't anything that I thought a husband would be and he wasn't that way
59:16
before we got married but I thought getting married would change him I thought that Minister had buried them
59:23
yeah it's amazing and he would change into a Heisman and after we got married and I told him
59:30
the light had come on in my car and it needed its oil changed and he said you should take it to Jiffy
59:36
Lube that was my first indication that no no no husbands take care of cars
59:44
that's what husbands do they take care of quotes yes it's it's written on the it's
59:51
written on the on the stone tablets of husbandry yeah and um so anyhow when I was wanting
1:00:00
to be married my mother said to me um well Allison you may have to give up
1:00:06
your precious self-sufficiency and your damn Independence
1:00:12
at least the two different concepts they they actually and they are in the
1:00:18
way that um when I created the course that at the time was called celebrating men in
1:00:23
marriage um because it was everything I'd learned from Men about marriage and and actually
1:00:29
really intelligent about marriage um in a way that women generally aren't
1:00:37
um because men take commitment very seriously very seriously very seriously
1:00:43
and and you know I'm a dictionary girl so as
1:00:48
that course was coming through again with all these thoughts that I
1:00:56
thought were my own um I looked up Independence in self-sufficiency
1:01:02
and and women want to be married but they want
1:01:08
to be independent but independent means free from the influence of another
1:01:15
good way to be married exactly and so that's why a man will think this woman
1:01:23
could be my wife she has all the qualities I'm looking for in my wife and then she tells them about something
1:01:30
she's decided and in her behind
1:01:35
they're not serious enough for him to have the right to an opinion let them Lona
1:01:43
vote so she just decided you know she's selling her house she's you know she
1:01:51
just decides stuff and um and to her he doesn't have the right to
1:01:58
say anything about that she doesn't have enough status that he deserves to have influence
1:02:05
and he she doesn't women don't know that when she does that she thinks oh my gosh
1:02:13
would she do that if we were men because to him it's not about
1:02:20
the right to influence to him it's about we're checking out sharing lives
1:02:27
together how do we do things how do we decide things how do we solve problems what are we doing we're upset I'm and
1:02:34
this is a this is meeting to the puzzle pieces fit together and that free from
1:02:41
influence here's the result oh my God yes I
1:02:49
marriage isn't about independence it's about you honor yourself but you're
1:02:55
not free from influence everything about your partner influences your life whether you like it yes yes
1:03:02
which is why I think people have very healthy reasons we're not getting married and
1:03:08
and then self-sufficiency this is one of the things that I
1:03:13
had interact with women they want a boyfriend they want they even say they want to be married
1:03:20
and they're and they have this value of self-sufficiency which self-sufficiency
1:03:26
is an instinctual value right if you can't
1:03:32
provide for yourself right if you can't handle the normal things in life by yourself you're gonna die
1:03:40
but it all depends on what you're up to in your life
1:03:45
right once you commit to something that's beyond an individual's ability to
1:03:52
create self-sufficiency is no longer valid
1:03:59
like no this and you guys know this you taught me this oh like
1:04:04
my brother my brother's this amazing organic farmer right he goes out to his field and he's got this thing that he
1:04:11
wants to create he starts working on it um he's trying to solve a problem and he
1:04:17
gets to a point where he goes oh this is a two-man job
1:04:22
and he just concludes that he doesn't he's not embarrassed or ashamed of
1:04:27
himself for not being able to do it it's a two-man job or this is going to take a
1:04:35
tin it's not there's no pride of self-sufficiency it's retaken on
1:04:40
something that's beyond my ability to do and this is my part and I need people
1:04:46
who are able to do these other parts including I'm not a good team leader I need someone to read this too
1:04:51
okay and so it's it's one of the things that I appreciate so much that I've
1:04:56
learned from that then it's it's just a fact right it's not a
1:05:05
judgment it's just a fact given what you're committed to and you know I'm
1:05:10
passionate about partnership and in our our course Lux which is
1:05:17
online starts out by saying most people aren't up to anything big enough in their life to require perch
1:05:24
and we do so good purpose keep our lives small enough we keep our
1:05:29
Ambitions small enough so that we can be self-sufficient
1:05:36
and it ends up being a cert going from a Bible imperative to Identity
1:05:44
and and so we'll keep limiting ourselves we will have an idea to take on something and oh but I couldn't do that
1:05:50
myself let me just killed it I can't do it myself and so
1:05:56
yes a certain level of Competency I would call it in the in the way that I have put it yeah instead of
1:06:02
self-sufficiency I would what I've said is as a because women are like oh men you know men don't like
1:06:09
strong women and like uh hello instinctually
1:06:16
he's looking he's going to partner with a woman he is looking for the strongest
1:06:23
most competent partner that he thinks he can attract and keep
1:06:35
who's strong and confident but left with I got nothing to give her right because
1:06:41
he's looking for what would she need from me right what can I contribute to her how
1:06:48
does she just need me to have a better life and meanwhile women are concealing
1:06:54
what it is that like I tease women okay you're so proud of it self-sufficient so
1:07:02
I want you to make a list of everything you do need a man for like if you rub
1:07:07
your own back can you hold yourself in your arms and
1:07:13
comfort you the way that a man can do I
1:07:19
mean you guys are awesome this came up about the Queen's code last week because there's a part in
1:07:25
the first couple chapters where Kimberly is insulted at an effort to be comforted
1:07:32
right and then even I didn't even notice this one of the participants pointed out
1:07:37
and then later in the same chapter Claudia is being comforted by Bert
1:07:43
and it had her realize that she doesn't let anybody comfort her and she really
1:07:50
would love to become burned and she'd like to ask her husband to come for her I mean geez talk about something that
1:07:57
changes the quality of your life comfort so
1:08:05
yes there are many things we can be self-sufficient at and there are so many things that we can't beat because they
1:08:12
come from another human being right I like that I'm not committed to the
1:08:19
word um self-sufficient I just like the alliteration with soft and self-sufficient but you're right what I'm trying to capture with that is this
1:08:25
idea of um of not needy right so sufficient meaning not needy but I like competent as well right because that's
1:08:33
that's true like we're not looking for women that are completely and totally self-sufficient because you know we as
1:08:38
men when we become Good Men We recognize that we're not self-sufficient either and that's a big transition for because
1:08:44
many men are in this Lone Wolf kind of mentality I have to do it all my own you
1:08:49
know no one's coming for me I gotta do it all and it's a big step for a man to get past that and recognize as you as
1:08:56
you so brilliantly said if you only take on things that you can tackle as an
1:09:01
individual you're going to live small but you have to be able to work and live
1:09:06
in teams and Community as a man because that's how you accomplish great things right and so you have to get past your
1:09:12
own desire for for Lone Wolf Independence as a man or self-sufficiency and reckon recognize that none of us are as strong as all of
1:09:20
us and that's a point that I try so hard to make to men because one of the things
1:09:25
that I experience is that there are so many men in this in the men's movement in particular that are like my version
1:09:32
of being a man is the only way to be a man and that's that's objectively not
1:09:37
true and you can even see it in like the movie The Lord of the the Lord of the Rings right Aragorn is nothing like
1:09:43
Gimli is nothing like Legolas there's nothing like Frodo is nothing like Gandalf these men are not similar but
1:09:48
you recognize them all as men recognize them all as part of a team why why are all these kinds of men
1:09:55
different kinds of band and all equally valid men but all men have to look like you Mr content creator how does that
1:10:02
work and so and so I try to encourage men to get to that point where you're
1:10:09
um it's interdependence right dependence to Independence to interdependence where
1:10:14
you recognize what your limitations as a man are and you recognize that that guy doesn't have the same limitations but he has his
1:10:21
own and the two of you together can do much more and that you tie that also into partnership is very powerful
1:10:28
because it's not something like to ask women today what do you need a man for SNAP answer nothing
1:10:35
right you know and it's like it's not without even hesitation right your your face right there shows it right it's
1:10:41
like well is that true can we dig into that notion that you need a man for nothing because I don't
1:10:47
know that and maybe you said this to me um but I certainly heard it recently it said
1:10:53
um men have never said we don't need women they're they're you know there's a small
1:10:58
segment of men out there called mgtow men going their own way that say that but it's a but it's very small and
1:11:03
that's that Community has its own problems um but like that women have developed this
1:11:09
belief that they don't need men when men have never developed like I say like without women it's pointless right what
1:11:16
are we doing just go back and get in the cave like Bert says that like men would be content of caves and campfires
1:11:23
without women and it's true right so so I appreciate you're trying to break down uh using using the queen's code
1:11:30
especially this notion that women don't need men and and getting them to ask
1:11:36
like what do you think you might actually need a man for yeah
1:11:42
a night ago on and on just on that subject and um
1:11:51
you know you've met Dan who's been in his space he he says hello by the way
1:11:58
um yeah and
1:12:04
I didn't know until I moved here a year ago how
1:12:10
small my life had become living alone in
1:12:15
that huge house yeah right in the country um
1:12:22
and I didn't I didn't realize I was shooting too
1:12:28
until until I moved here and I never thought I would leave my house in the
1:12:34
country especially if you had to move to a city even though you know
1:12:39
huge city has 16 000 people so it's almost got a stoplight
1:12:47
he has many stoplights and and I have 34 miles from the stock right down upside
1:12:53
down at 295 people right so um but I got to experience
1:13:00
that um and as you know we don't live together Dan and I
1:13:07
um but I I live in this circle of his
1:13:12
protection yes he's kind of live together but not
1:13:17
really live together yeah I know what you mean well I think living together is full of
1:13:23
Hazards and that is one of the things I didn't want to do it was on my list if I
1:13:29
was going to be in a relationship again not attached to being married or living
1:13:34
together full-time and and so having my little house on his property in and
1:13:43
you've actually stayed in this house before it was mine yeah um I'm in his circle of protection and I I call him
1:13:50
the Lord of The Manor sometimes and but it's it's palpable
1:13:56
it's it's palpable because he's right there and my encounters with
1:14:05
my encounters with Bears last year um
1:14:10
the one trying to break down the shutter to get into the kitchen because I was cooking
1:14:16
um cooking is so good it attracts bears hey is it he was a little guy but he
1:14:25
seems like you know when standing up can reach taller than I am seems really big and
1:14:32
um that is pretty big bear yeah yeah so so the you know whether it's Critters
1:14:39
and um this year it's been raccoons five raccoons so far
1:14:45
um that we've trapped by raccoons some of them timid and some of them snarling and
1:14:52
terrifying um but just who I can be because I feel safe
1:15:00
and it's one of the things that um it towards the end of our understanding
1:15:07
women course um men who watch it can sue it they can see the the and get it this early
1:15:16
um women responding to this assertion that I've made that it doesn't matter
1:15:23
our sexuality it doesn't matter our competency instinctually
1:15:32
there isn't anything including a gun because after great guy
1:15:37
great guy I went and got one got to shoot it right um
1:15:42
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual
1:15:49
vibration able to think thoughts and not others
1:15:56
the whole capacities that come from feeling truly safe nothing contributes
1:16:02
to that the same way as one man that you know is for you
1:16:08
but he's got you yes nothing and I I've asked this of thousands of women
1:16:15
you know picture how how you breathe what you think how you feel in your body
1:16:21
in the presence of a man you know is for you they're present to that okay now how
1:16:29
many women does it take to give you the same feeling and I
1:16:35
watched thousands of women thinking thinking like okay two five ten
1:16:43
under 500 until finally they all just shaking
1:16:49
their heads there's no numbers [Music]
1:16:56
and talk about interdependence right
1:17:02
um that we can contribute that to each other it doesn't have to be a romantic
1:17:07
relationship it doesn't have to be a sexual relationship it doesn't even have to be a committed relationship
1:17:14
it can it can be how you're being with me sitting next to me on a plane
1:17:20
like this this young man we were we were chatting about a bunch of stuff and then we said
1:17:26
um excuse me I have to close my eyes and take a nap now but I'll be back
1:17:33
that's cute and you leaned against the side of the plane and you closed his
1:17:39
eyes and you went to sleep and I just thought where did he find that
1:17:44
how was he woke up I asked him did you get that from to reassure me you're
1:17:50
still here you'll be back I am safe where did you get that from which led to a whole other conversation about his
1:17:57
mother his mother taught him oh my gosh um and and if you if you reverse it it's
1:18:05
the same thing I if I ever had one another career it'll be in in customer service teaching customer service to men
1:18:13
and having single Focus attention that you have on the customer in front of you if you just take a moment and say I'll
1:18:21
be with you with her right just like I'll be with
1:18:28
you next because we're standing in the line and the man has not acknowledged our presence we're gonna keep them in
1:18:34
attack he doesn't even know I'm here I'm gonna die and we get tense and then
1:18:40
by the time we get we start making [ __ ] comments and then
1:18:45
taking so long it's all out of fear it doesn't sound like fear but it's all out
1:18:50
of fear we're just one minute I see you I see you I'll be with you as soon as
1:18:57
I'm done here right it's the same effect as being able
1:19:03
to take a number and you see that that actually going by the numbers
1:19:08
at random numbers yeah yeah you wanted to say something
1:19:14
no this I mean this is very helpful
1:19:20
um because that's one of and I want to dive into
1:19:26
all of these topics and continue on our off-road Adventure but I told myself we were going to talk about the Queen's
1:19:31
good because we could talk about a thousand other things but I do want to bring it back to the to the book and the
1:19:37
audiobook and that I think um to go all the way back to my story for reading the
1:19:43
Queen's code is that I discovered keys to the kingdom and I don't know how I found it on Amazon I was overseas at
1:19:51
the time I was within 2018 maybe two late 2017 something like that and I read
1:19:57
the keys to the kingdom first because I read it was the first book so I'll read the first book in the series right and
1:20:04
um and I recognized just how true and real the
1:20:10
stages of development in a man's life are because I was on my big four-year overseas travel Adventure I was in some
1:20:17
sort of night stage I guess right like I was out slaying slaying dragons right and I was like and and that provided
1:20:24
such an incredible piece to me of of um peace p-i-e-c-e and peace p-e-a-c-e
1:20:30
right at the same time to recognize that no one had ever told me about the
1:20:36
various stages of life that I would go through as a man and I felt that I was doing something completely you know off
1:20:43
the main off the beaten path you know unusual irregular especially compared to all my friends who had settled down and
1:20:49
all that stuff but they had never really had much of a night phase and here I was trusting my own instinct to say there's
1:20:56
something unfinished in myself that I have to go do and so when I read that and recognizing excuse me and
1:21:04
recognizing that I knew intuitively that as soon as I was done doing that then I would be ready to
1:21:11
begin thinking about a wife and kids but this had to be done first right and and
1:21:16
like no one had ever given me that knowledge before but I knew it I knew it in my gut and I trusted it and I gave up
1:21:23
an entire life you know in the United States and in San Francisco and California I say I pushed all in put it
1:21:28
all on the table and said I'm going and I did it and that was my preparation for being able to have something to offer to
1:21:34
a woman later in my life and I knew that and then the keys to the kingdom you lay that out I was like I'm looking at my
1:21:41
life reflected in a mirror no yeah and there's a lot going there's a lot going on in that book
1:21:47
um but that's that's really what I took away I remember where that landed in my chest I was like oh I'm doing exactly
1:21:53
what I'm supposed to be doing hallelujah praise God for that right right
1:21:59
and so it was it was right after that like as soon as I finished keys to the kingdom I picked up the Queen's code
1:22:06
and I I'll never forget the experience of reading that book for the first time
1:22:13
on Unforgettable to see to to learn so
1:22:18
much about myself but to feel so understood to feel so completely understood by a woman uh and and to see
1:22:27
so many things like the way that you read the men in the audiobook now did you nail all of it like I'm listening to
1:22:32
you you know saying Bert and Jack and Raul and and their inflection and the
1:22:38
tone of voice and the way that the men say the things they're saying like for example when when Kimberly I don't know
1:22:44
it's kind of spoiler alert whatever so when when Kimberly says to Jack like you know I'd like for you to be my lover and
1:22:50
Jack's like no like not her I was like oh because I was
1:22:56
I was like oh I felt that in my own body when she said that like oh no right and
1:23:03
and I remember that whole experience of and Scott you know having been many of
1:23:10
those different men and so I remember when I read the book The First Time
1:23:15
that not only were the things that Claudia was teaching about men true right like she can say the things but
1:23:23
then the way that all the men Illustrated and embody the truth of them it was just incredibly powerful
1:23:30
experience that showed me a bunch of things all at once it showed me that um
1:23:35
it taught me about myself because I didn't have language to describe a lot of different aspects of myself that I
1:23:42
felt were true like the way that um the way that a a man is recharged around a
1:23:48
contented woman like I was almost in tears when I read that because I realized how rarely I had experienced it
1:23:54
and how true it was right so it showed me these things about myself it showed
1:23:59
me that men could be understood by women that we're not it's not some some dense
1:24:07
fog that's impossible to see through and that men and women can actually relearn
1:24:12
and it is relearn how to relate to each other and it was this powerfully transformative experience for me that
1:24:18
planted a seed in my mind that has taken shape over the past four years and and deeply informs what we've talked about
1:24:24
which is the great reconciliation and so now I find myself recommending the book regularly like several times
1:24:32
several times a week because it's had that much of an impact on my life as saying no we can relearn how to relate
1:24:40
to each other as men and women and and there's a way that we can start that process at minimum if not completed and
1:24:46
it's in the Queen's code which is a big thing it's a big thing to say
1:24:52
months thank you
1:25:09
um I think before we started recording and mentioned
1:25:16
um the acknowledgment of the in the book and yes my having added the part
1:25:22
specifically about the audiobook and um
1:25:31
it may sound strange but I am I feel blessed by
1:25:39
because of Greg having
1:25:44
across the bill passed died left me without taking any of his stuff
1:25:56
um could you have an interesting update for you and one of the things that I find uh
1:26:01
oh wow you have a film and for the Renaissance they've been
1:26:09
in his in his uh Porsche right um
1:26:18
because of his passing and because of Mike finally realizing I did what a
1:26:27
romantic relationship again um because for a long time I was like no I know how much work they take right it
1:26:34
takes so much work to be brilliant and I'm not going to have one that isn't brilliant so I don't know if I want to do this at all and then having that Dan
1:26:43
two years ago and encountering someone with whom it's worth it
1:26:50
right it's it's still work it's still everything I knew it would be
1:26:56
um yet the benefits are astonishing to me and and part of it is that conversation
1:27:04
we were having before great Greg was self-sufficient as an identity
1:27:13
oh interesting yes and and so
1:27:18
our partnership was limited because most of the things that I
1:27:24
offered in order to be of help in order to be useful in order to have something
1:27:31
go faster easier most of what I offered was taken as an insult
1:27:38
um yeah and so over the years I offered
1:27:43
less and less and less and less because it hurts to be interacted with that way
1:27:49
no he not no thank you no thanks for offering no this isn't it
1:27:57
no maybe another time just no and this page to it is
1:28:04
and in and I didn't know how much Dan I didn't
1:28:11
know how much Greg had had imprinted me like he he was the man that I had a
1:28:18
long-term relationship with you know almost 30 years together and even though I've been married before my first
1:28:25
husband and I spent almost retirement we were the picture of Independence
1:28:31
and so being with Ian who's a very different person in that
1:28:38
he's always played team sports right since he was four years old hockey
1:28:45
right yeah hockey's play team sports and then coached you know many many years
1:28:52
coaching hockey and and it's so distinct for him what team
1:28:59
is and we're gonna have a name for our team we were like headstrong
1:29:09
yes yes I'm strong laughs
1:29:19
but was this this thing it's really beautiful that I didn't
1:29:24
get to experience before where he he is known less by his admiration of
1:29:32
my strengths just as I am no less by my admiration
1:29:38
case yes and so you know he'll come along and
1:29:44
goes okay so what what's the engineer come up with how are we going to do this
1:29:51
it's great right you're the engineer and but then he'll tease me about being
1:29:57
um vertically challenged right
1:30:03
but then I'll tease him back we were walking down the sidewalk and there's an
1:30:08
overhanging tree and I walked right under it and he had to duck I said now who's vertically challenged
1:30:15
he remembers that one yeah
1:30:21
that's amazing yeah buddy um the things that we can do together
1:30:29
like learning to sail right last year learning to sail together hugely
1:30:35
challenging and he's amazing on the helm
1:30:40
right he's just cool as a cucumber and just awesome on the home I don't like
1:30:46
being on them but I'm a monkey right set me up for Mast
1:30:52
the under sale I'm a happy camper right I'm just like crazy like should we be
1:30:58
very agile and you know this little mountain goat on the boat and one line for yourself and one lane for the boat
1:31:05
oh wow oh so much fun right it's amazing
1:31:10
yeah and and so much fun because there's so little
1:31:17
we're just not proving to each other you know we're just not presenting each
1:31:23
other and although there's this funny thing I um
1:31:29
well it goes back to the independency but let me finish what I was saying so what I'm grateful to for the Queen's
1:31:35
code is I is I've had to relearn you know I I had to re-learn applied to a very
1:31:45
different human being what does it look like for him and just like you were talking about all
1:31:52
the characters are unique and to themselves as are all men there's no one way to be a man and yet there are these
1:32:01
intrinsic qualities that are so beautiful if you can see them and learn how to
1:32:08
work with them and if you
1:32:13
if you can't they seem like they're the reason why I can't get what I need from you
1:32:21
mm-hmm right this it seem like obstacles instead of instead of strengths and um
1:32:30
and I'm I love that you get to experience the Queen's code from the
1:32:36
intent in my in my intent of women getting to see men's motivations and how
1:32:43
beautiful they are and because of single Focus for example the effects of
1:32:49
testosterone on the brain things have to be worked with in a certain way or you can't get to the beauty
1:32:55
and the same is true for women right if women have such beauty but if
1:33:02
men don't know how much our safety depends on feeling connected and every time you focus on something else we feel
1:33:09
disconnected and lost and then we get afraid and we do all kinds of
1:33:15
ugly things um like be critical you know the first time
1:33:22
I was critical of damn it I was trying not to be but I was really afraid and we
1:33:27
just met yeah and he's like uh
1:33:33
felt like criticism and I stopped taking that a long time ago yeah like you told me that story that was fun
1:33:41
um yeah and then I burst into tears that I criticized him be Allison Armstrong
1:33:47
and just criticized a man and and then I just I was afraid I just confessed I was
1:33:54
afraid right and then he was tapping his steering wheel because he was driving he was having and she sounds like that
1:34:00
she's cute and she sounds like that she's scared she sounds like what she's doing he was memorizing he was learning
1:34:08
me because okay so how about if that happens again I'll remember that you're
1:34:15
scared and and then I'll ask what's scaring you
1:34:21
how about that that sounds good first deal right we're
1:34:26
gonna first deal just a few hours into this relationship and then I said well
1:34:32
yeah but as quick as I can already tell you or you will probably already figure out figured out the things that scare me
1:34:41
but if you want to ask that's fine and then I thought a second I said but how about I just come right out and say I'm
1:34:48
scared oh that's good right yeah
1:34:55
and then and it has been a passenger in a car right it's scary to be a passenger in a car
1:35:02
and in Colorado
1:35:07
yeah but it was great because a few months later I was trying to figure out how to ask him to not follow the car in
1:35:15
front of us so closely even though it'd be a normal place to follow in City driving and they're not
1:35:21
used to City driving and have a thing about tailgating and I was trying to figure out a nice way to ask that and
1:35:27
then I remembered and I said it's scaring me that you're so close to that car
1:35:33
let me just amazing so simple so simple right just
1:35:40
stick with the truth but we're trying to you know it's a definition of strategy
1:35:46
um to move yourself into the best possible position before engaging with
1:35:51
the Enemy oh yeah
1:35:56
right and that's how we are with each other we're trying to move ourselves into a position where we don't reveal
1:36:02
any weaknesses where we don't reveal any dependency where we don't feel anything
1:36:08
that we need which equals a weak a weakness right and so much of the Queen's code is
1:36:15
is just showing that none of these are weaknesses they're they're just part of
1:36:21
being human and how we reveal them to each other makes all the difference in how the other person can respond like in
1:36:28
that scene that you spoiler alerted you know Jack's reaction and then
1:36:34
got out of his reaction long enough to look over at Kimberly
1:36:40
Kimberly was being yes which is so much a part of the message that is not
1:36:48
stating it's how we're being with each other is so much more important than how
1:36:54
we put this right yes women are always asking me how do I say it and the Queen's code was
1:37:02
about I knew I could teach women how to speak the language of humans but if the
1:37:08
being the beingness of the woman isn't congruent
1:37:13
if she hasn't transformed her relationship to being provided for her relationship
1:37:20
to help to accomplish something bigger than herself her relationship to saving
1:37:27
her relationship like if she is a transformed her relationship to that even having the words it's not going to
1:37:34
work because it's people who were beating is louder than everything
1:37:43
it's I mean that's that's what's behind The Vow
1:37:48
right the the you know I vow to give up the right to castrate men forever it's that if you take on the teachings of the
1:37:56
Queen's code you can put them into your head you know and you can express them from your mouth but if the person who's doing
1:38:03
that if the woman who's doing that hasn't had a true change of heart like a
1:38:09
real trans a real commitment to transform her way of being two men
1:38:15
right then it's just going to create destruction and you illustrate that so
1:38:21
clearly through the through the Melissa scene with Scott it's crushing it's it's
1:38:26
crushing like to feel I I think you know I think um
1:38:32
I think Scott's reaction in that scene is is probably mild compared to what
1:38:37
would happen to a lot of men right like he's he clearly loves her a lot to
1:38:43
respond in that way versus just to walk out the door for example he's like okay right and and this is again that's the
1:38:52
power that's the power of the book and that that my experience as a man reading it
1:38:57
and to to learn the hero's language was obviously not going to give away um
1:39:03
and to to know intuitively in my own minds and in my own heart in my own body that yes those are the words
1:39:10
like those are the words that that that activate me and call me to attention and can truly bring out the best in me and
1:39:19
can also be used against me because I want to give my strength away as a man I've worked hard to cultivate
1:39:25
my strength as a man it's a it's a multi-decades-long project for a man to
1:39:30
get to a point in his life where he truly has the ability to offer himself like I offer myself to you partner or
1:39:38
you friend or who or whoever right and and here are the keys particularly like a wife right
1:39:44
you know fiance wife here are the keys to how to bring forth the best in me and
1:39:49
that those same keys can be used to absolutely bring out the worst right or or to destroy
1:39:57
you have to have a train a change of heart as a woman and how you in terms of how you relate to men in order to take
1:40:04
responsibility for those and then you really get to see men shine but it costs you something as a woman
1:40:11
you can't get it for free and that's that's the power of that vow it's like how how bad do you want that
1:40:18
you know how much how much of yourself are you willing to give to get something from a man that you could never give
1:40:25
yourself and that's where the transformation comes in that that commitment and it's
1:40:30
so inspiring to me to know that there are so many women that are willing to make that commitment
1:40:35
because you know the dialogues almost seems to be women who would never be willing to make that commitment but I
1:40:40
know for a fact millions of women they're like you know we're over we're over this independent self-sufficient thing
1:40:47
those guys over there you know they do things differently over there maybe we have something to learn from them and
1:40:52
and maybe they have something to learn from us let's give that a shot foreign
1:41:08
you said there's so many things that it sparked in me um
1:41:19
further along in the book which you referred to or Bert is trying to unwind
1:41:25
what's happening to Claudia and her help yeah he was really worried about her and
1:41:30
then he finally pinpoints it and and it's
1:41:36
it's the first time that this concept of accountability shows up
1:41:41
and it's so important and it's um
1:41:46
it's one of the most underestimated contexts
1:41:52
and um and one of the ways that women
1:41:59
unconsciously reduce men um I interacted with an organization and
1:42:05
that their job is transformation that's the business is transformation and the
1:42:11
founder um the founder died and his wife took over and when I went to be a speaker
1:42:18
there I was so saddened because I watched this
1:42:24
crew of women who were all in the leadership positions interacting with
1:42:31
men as helpers
1:42:37
yeah and and they didn't even know they didn't even know how much they were
1:42:42
emasculating these amazing men around them who if they just released the
1:42:48
accountability to that expertise instead of
1:42:53
managing and micromanaging everything like these were these guys are really
1:42:59
good helpers but they love very much they're like good dogs
1:43:05
do you know right yeah and
1:43:11
um in a course that we haven't gotten to have since the beginning of covet covered the answer partnership
1:43:16
accountability is the is if it's the first Topic in the context of
1:43:21
partnership and and I make fun of us that accountability
1:43:28
has become um there's a lot of status associated
1:43:34
with accountability and that the more that you're quote in charge of the more important you are and
1:43:42
that one of the things that's wearing women out is we will make ourselves accountable for anything and everything
1:43:50
and we don't stop and think is this my part
1:43:56
and and we're just we're just merely we don't even want to we just really
1:44:02
really willing to be accountable because you're afraid of what will happen if we're not we don't know that maybe two
1:44:08
steps behind us or someone for whom that would be privileged to the accountant
1:44:13
and it's one of the things that women don't know about men that that language
1:44:19
would do me that honor of being my wife would you do me the honor of marrying me
1:44:25
that he's asking to be accountable for taking care of her in certain ways
1:44:33
and and Melissa interacting with Scott and
1:44:39
the Queen's code she has no idea where she holds himself accountable for
1:44:46
um with his children with her with all the
1:44:52
people that worked for the mentors to be successful in their own careers like it's he is a huge capacity
1:44:59
and all she sees is he doesn't take out the damn trash yes
1:45:06
yeah and it um I asked the first time I led the dancer partnership and we were talking
1:45:13
about I call them accountability
1:45:20
okay [Laughter]
1:45:26
and and I just have this way of putting things Allison it's so good
1:45:31
I try to make things memorable right you succeed [ __ ] hours pumpkin hours
1:45:36
right yes dessert dessert pumpkin hours all that it's like yeah
1:45:43
um maybe that's my contribution to the
1:45:50
Queen's code to the movie um I think there's more than that so I
1:45:55
so I asked I'd say I'm receptive and obedient that those are my star qualities
1:46:03
um to all the things that are wanting to get through um but if I asked this group as the men in
1:46:11
the group like to what's it like for you for women to keep taking all the
1:46:18
accountabilities and leaving nothing for you at most at most they want your help
1:46:24
but they'll never ask you to be accountable or entrust you with accountability and
1:46:31
um this one man stood up he was probably in his 50s and he said
1:46:36
it's like training for something your entire life and then not be allowed to do
1:46:43
um that's right yeah it's what you said earlier right like this
1:46:51
um how you've known yourself to be all your entire life but no one calls you right
1:46:57
you've developed your strength that's so much what being a knight is about is actually
1:47:04
um developing and testing developing and testing developing and testing how good
1:47:09
am I I want to be good at that now how good am I yeah how good am I now how come right and it's it's awesome right
1:47:17
and then they have to put yourself to the test of all these things then being a prince you could say is okay now now
1:47:24
how am I going to use this to build something yes all these things that I've had
1:47:29
created in myself so yes accountability I imagine
1:47:36
accountability is going to show up in the third book it's about doing just arrived at near
1:47:44
the end of the Queen's private and it's it's huge it's huge
1:47:51
um one of the things you said is that the power and possibilities
1:47:58
of a partnership a determined by what each of the partners are being
1:48:04
accountable for being this women's
1:48:11
say that one more time just to make sure yeah that's yeah so I I like what
1:48:18
they're being accountable for say say that all again if if you don't mind the power and possibilities of a partnership
1:48:25
are determined by what each of the partners are being accountable
1:48:31
for being listening and speaking yes okay yes yeah including being
1:48:40
accountable for letting another person be accountable [Laughter]
1:48:45
yes to let you do your part to entrust you
1:48:52
to do the support you do in your part and it's your part this is this is massive
1:48:58
because I I don't want to one of the things that I run into writing about man
1:49:03
is I don't want to oversell men because I believe in the best of men but a lot of men really need to learn
1:49:09
accountability like that's a lesson that a lot of men and that's part of what the Renaissance of men is about that's part of what the men's movement about is
1:49:15
about generally is no man you like individual man you need to begin being
1:49:20
accountable for even more things than you're already accountable for the small the the very small life that you're
1:49:26
accountable for you can be much more accountable and take it and you can bear that weight of it and so I think that
1:49:33
there's been a week and I know that there's been a weakening of going going on of men that has forced women to take
1:49:38
on accountability in response and and I would I would say this is these are the result of societal forces that you and I
1:49:45
could spend a lot of time unpacking like I don't think it's all personal I think we're caught up in some some historical
1:49:50
flows that we're kind of fighting against the street well let's we'll just we'll got the thinking the thinking cap
1:49:56
on what can I say one thing about it because it's interesting yes yes you can what's that
1:50:02
integral to what the Queen's code is about because as women disempower men
1:50:11
yes we weaken you yes and then we we feel the weakness in
1:50:19
you yes and part of feeling that weakness makes us feel safer now you can't hurt
1:50:25
me yes but the other part of that weakness
1:50:30
has us take over yes
1:50:36
again to make us ourselves feel safe it's all about feeling safe so we disempower you to feel safe but then
1:50:42
because we've disempowered you we have to fill in and take over to have ourselves feel safe which the stepping
1:50:50
in and taking over also is a massive mm-hmm it makes it worse withholding
1:50:55
accountability is one of the biggest ways that women emasculate men or that any men are masquerade each other
1:51:02
right or even themselves so so this thing this spiraled down
1:51:10
right and in our work on partnership I start with accountability and we start
1:51:17
with the first person to become a partner of is yourself
1:51:23
and huge yeah and where I start with with accountability which is one of the
1:51:30
what I call a 14 extraordinary choices also known as 14 elements in Partnership
1:51:37
is actually starting with getting clear about what you're unwilling to be held
1:51:44
to account for
1:51:49
amazing 14 things that all have to happen simultaneously we talked we touched on
1:51:55
this in our last conversation yes yes okay and they're each Radioactive
1:52:00
but but here's the thing that related to the Queen's code that I would be thrilled for men to do
1:52:10
because what happens is women are trying to hold men to account
1:52:15
for acting like women the perfect person the perfect woman
1:52:22
and I'm terrible being that you're terrible peanut but this is what happens we're trying to hold you to account for
1:52:29
acting like a woman and you refuse to be held to account for acting like a woman which has women
1:52:35
think you refuse to be accountable for anything
1:52:42
yes it's too subtle it's too subtle women don't get it when a woman when a
1:52:47
man's like no you can't count on me for that well then I can't count on you for anything
1:52:53
instead of quit trying to count on me to act like a woman and you'll find out
1:52:59
what you can count on which the Queen's code is about what women can count on men four especially
1:53:09
when we stop trying to hold you to account for what you can't be counted on for yes which is doing what a woman would do
1:53:17
yes yeah but as long as we're down your throat about you're supposed to see what
1:53:23
I see and do what I would do and do it perfectly we can't ever see how much men
1:53:29
love to be count onable and for the things that men are count onable as for men
1:53:37
as a man or even individually like yes like when
1:53:43
so Greg would do this thing where he would figure out how far I was gonna go
1:53:48
and then he would make sure my car had enough gas to get there and back so he monitored my gas
1:53:56
tank imagine 20 years of this
1:54:02
sure okay and at one point I asked him I said I love that I don't ever have to
1:54:07
worry about gas but I don't ever have to put gas in my tank how would you like me to appreciate you for that
1:54:15
and his response took my breath away he said if you took that for granted it would
1:54:23
tell me that you know who I am [Music]
1:54:31
it opened up this whole other area of there are things appreciate about people
1:54:39
and it's actually insulting the way that we appreciate it oh you're such a wonderful man
1:54:45
no I'm a man yes
1:54:50
don't you get that like there's there's this insult that in what we won't take
1:54:57
for granted what we won't count on you for now do I think we don't need to appreciate things no I got a whole thing
1:55:04
on that appreciation's so important but someone's currency of appreciation matters and there are things that where
1:55:14
we're insulted and I've experienced it myself like that you think you can't count on me for that and make such a big
1:55:19
deal out of it is insulting to me yes
1:55:25
yes I can do much more than just that yes and so that sort of thinks for men to
1:55:32
own is this is what you can count on me for and if you just tell them you find
1:55:38
it then I'll know you know who I am and that's respect
1:55:44
it would be extra on top of what you can tell and this is the minimum this is how to
1:55:51
appreciate you for it mm-hmm right and then as one man said don't ask me for
1:55:58
what I can't provide yeah ask me for what I can provide and I'll give you all I've got
1:56:04
so women keep asking men to provide being a woman like Jack starts out in
1:56:10
the very first chapter women these days to be a man and a woman to be their
1:56:18
boyfriend and their girlfriend how come they don't how it doesn't work that way
1:56:23
and Men try that that's the thing though is that I'm glad that you mentioned that because some men do accept
1:56:28
accountability for being like a woman and it weakens it weakens men they try like me I tried that for many years and
1:56:36
women don't actually like it right that's the thing it's like okay I'll give you the thing that you that you want and you hate us and so I can't I
1:56:43
can't win right it's really tough and I do want to I want to I want to stay on that for just a second because there's
1:56:49
well there's a tendency in a lot of men in the men's movement to look at guys who act like that and and judge them
1:56:55
very harshly and there's a there's a lot of that and there's a lot of the ways that men can be cruel and judgmental to
1:57:01
each other right but I like the way that you frame it it's that these men are being accountable for the things that
1:57:07
the women in their lives are holding them accountable for and so they're actually being accountable but in this
1:57:13
inverse upside down kind of way it's not that they're unaccountable they're doing the best they can with the source that
1:57:19
they feel is authoritative right unfortunately which needs to change that's a whole thing but they're they're
1:57:25
they're actually being accountable now there are some men that are not being accountable for anything and that's a separate conversation but there are a
1:57:32
lot of men out there that are trying to be the safe you know nice you know
1:57:37
girlfriend kind of boyfriend like they're trying to do that because they think it's right and they're being
1:57:42
accountable for it it just doesn't work and and to be able to see that to make
1:57:47
that discernment and say this man is actually trying the thing and he's succeeding he's succeeding at the wrong
1:57:53
thing but he's trying right and and to ease up on some of those guys and to be
1:57:58
able to see them more clearly oh boy you just said so much
1:58:05
[Laughter]
1:58:15
sorry there's like 10 similar wrestlers trying to get to the door at the same time
1:58:21
that's how I describe my brains all little kids trying to get off the bus at the same time that's so funny that's
1:58:27
really funny so okay so I'm I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
1:58:34
start with this part um there's a man his name is Curtis who
1:58:40
volunteered um and got trained to teach her material and he volunteered in the understanding
1:58:46
women course um I think 13 times was the last time that I knew wow and yeah and
1:58:55
I noticed in the last few times that I was around him that
1:59:00
she had changed in not a good way and that my sense of him was that he was a
1:59:09
volcano about to explode and
1:59:14
I had the kind of relationship with him that I could talk to him about it and Curtis what is this
1:59:21
and what it and it changed how I led that course because what he said was
1:59:28
well after being at this course and finding out how much safety matters to Bringing
1:59:34
out the best in women I have taken on accountability for making women feel
1:59:41
safe yep yep and and I could see I mean it was just like
1:59:49
right that him taking on accountability for making women feel safe he was
1:59:55
literally suppressing his own self-expression yes he wasn't telling
2:00:01
his truth he wasn't being his truth yes and that's
2:00:06
that was this volcano that was building them and and I got it and I for anyone if you did
2:00:15
understand a woman online course which is 11 hours of life changing
2:00:20
you'll see that I never say that anymore and I even mourn the men do not take on
2:00:26
making a woman feel safe I know it hurts you how scared we are I know you never
2:00:32
want us to be scared but don't make yourself accountable for making women
2:00:37
feel safe because you can't make women feel safe at the most you can help a woman to feel
2:00:45
safe But ultimately it's up to her to choose
2:00:51
because of an instinctual standpoint there's never safe enough just like as a as a man you've never
2:00:57
produced too much there's no Instinct that kicks in okay I've produced enough no get out there and hunt again and
2:01:03
again and again right and for us we're never safe enough we have to consciously
2:01:09
override our own instincts and decide I'm safe enough and men can help us to feel safe but you
2:01:17
can't make us feel safe and when finding out all the whackadoodle behaviors that
2:01:22
come from women not feeling safe it has you want to be able to make us feel safe
2:01:28
is that because you love the beauty of women and anything you can do to get it including you know just listen and
2:01:36
respond like a girlfriend would instead of saying that's a crock of [ __ ] you have a nail in your forehead
2:01:43
yes he is about the nail darling yes so it's
2:01:52
it's under used us to be into what's going to be attractive to me what's going to be
2:01:59
necessary to me is if you act like this but unfortunately the decision to do
2:02:06
that and then a man is suppressing his own truth which is the source of your strength
2:02:11
that's perceived by a woman as a weakness and you'll be our best friend but we never want to have sex with you
2:02:17
yes yes yes yes yes in order to respond
2:02:23
sexually to the perception of strength and a man standing up for himself
2:02:30
and if you can stand up for yourself early and maybe quiet more quietly so it
2:02:37
doesn't scare the crap out of us then we can just perceive the strength in it and think you're so hot instead of betrayed
2:02:45
betray betrayed the trade betray yourself and then the volcano experience and then and and that is so threatening
2:02:52
right you're gonna get a fight fight or freeze response which are mastery
2:02:59
and the investigation comes in every one of those responses so the being true to yourself from the
2:03:06
very beginning it goes back to this okay so if I was being true to myself what
2:03:12
would I be count on a book for and what would I allow other people to
2:03:18
hold me to account for in fact if they did hold me to account that would tell me they knew know who I am it would be
2:03:25
respect to hold me to account for that because I am choosing to be a coming
2:03:31
and telling that truth including and these are the things you can't count on
2:03:38
even if you think a better man would be count on a before it it's not true for you
2:03:48
I'm I'm I mean I hope all the guys are listening right this is not the message that's delivered to many men or that
2:03:54
many men receive right many men receive the message right fully or wrong and I
2:04:00
think it's objectively true that you should receive this message that you are responsible men and I think this is this is out there in culture you as men are
2:04:07
dangerous and you are responsible for making women feel safe and in order to
2:04:13
do that you have to declaw and defang yourself and remove remove any notion of
2:04:19
your strength at all and as soon as you do that women will feel safe and then they will want you
2:04:25
right and I can't I can't tell you how hard I did that I can't tell you the
2:04:31
number of times I had women say will you're a beautiful man and then completely and then completely
2:04:36
ignore me right like I did I'm doing all the things and it's not it's not getting
2:04:42
it's not getting the response that I was told I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a man and it's not getting the
2:04:48
response that I was told I was gonna get yes right and I'm very I'm very fortunate that I came for myself right
2:04:55
and I had that I had the opportunity to meet men who sent me another Direction who sent me in the direction of things
2:05:01
that I had essentially shamed out of my own existence and one of the books that really does that for men um is the book
2:05:08
No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Dr Robert Glover have you heard of this book
2:05:14
yes but I haven't read it it's I mean the the entire Dynamic that you're
2:05:19
talking about with this guy being a volcano Curtis like that's that's what that's the exact same image that Dr
2:05:25
Robert Glover uses where it's like men they suppress they suppress what's true
2:05:30
for them and and they become very nice right and they present in this very nice way very non-threatening but the truth
2:05:37
of who they are gets suppressed and suppressed and then explodes and comes out sideways and Jordan Peterson talks
2:05:44
about this as well there's nothing more dangerous than a nice guy because you don't actually know who he is and then
2:05:50
I'm talking I'm talking to friends other women in my life that are saying they that are getting around nice guys and
2:05:55
how anxious these nice guys make them feel right like I don't know where this guy is at it's like but this is the
2:06:02
message that so many men receive is that you have to be nice you have to be nice nice but what they don't say which is
2:06:08
what you just said that there's no amount of that you can ever truly make a
2:06:14
woman feel safe that she has to be be responsible for her own feelings of
2:06:19
safety and her own innate anxiety like whatever to whatever grief she has that she needs to be in control of that and
2:06:26
it's not your responsibility man to cut to defang declaw and castrate yourself so that she feels safe because you can
2:06:32
never disempower yourself enough to make her feel safe and you'll actually end up doing the opposite
2:06:37
that's that's some stuff right there yeah that's some stuff right there
2:06:45
is also how you said that that you can't ever do enough of it
2:06:51
um can ever go in the wrong direction for too long and unfortunately
2:06:59
hey this this here before right with what you
2:07:05
call the great reconciliation um and what I discovered and what shows
2:07:10
up in the third chapter in the Queen's code that when I was asked to stop castrating men
2:07:18
my first response was for them how I protect myself that's right and then as I felt into
2:07:27
what Ellen Hurst was asking me I saw that I would never
2:07:34
know like intimately I would never know my own power as a woman
2:07:40
as long as I was still in power from that that my ability to take men's power was
2:07:47
not the same as having power and that until I stopped
2:07:54
stealing power from men I wouldn't I wouldn't truly know my own
2:08:00
and it's interesting because when when we get to it
2:08:06
as many differences as there are between many women and I can catalog the
2:08:12
encyclopedias there's a few wonderful just if you the sameness
2:08:18
this sameness is the truth of that true the admiration and respect and
2:08:28
even really liking another human being begins with us
2:08:34
each men and women men or women that we treat ourselves in no way that causes us
2:08:42
to experience respect and admiration and writing ourselves
2:08:47
yes that when we hold ourselves to what we've decided to become our level for
2:08:54
then we interact with other people
2:08:59
with looking for was seeking what can we count on them for and respecting them for that right and liking them for who
2:09:08
they are and admiring them for the ways that are treated themselves but instead we're until we're interacting in that
2:09:15
whole domain we're never going to have the connections that we're looking for
2:09:20
and it
2:09:29
there's something that I want to give to your people
2:09:34
okay um so we'll we'll figure out how to give it
2:09:40
the how of giving it to your people okay
2:09:45
um it's a a webinar that I recorded summer of 21 when I lived here
2:09:55
I've lived here for about eight or nine months and it kept trying
2:10:01
to adapt to something I needed I kept trying to not need it
2:10:06
and as I kept trying to not need it my version of being nice
2:10:12
right I was being nice about something and then I would be the volcano that
2:10:17
erupted about every six weeks because I really needed something to change and I
2:10:24
was trying to get over it and it was something I presented to Dan before I ever met him
2:10:31
I stated this mood and then I was incongruent with it
2:10:37
and as a result of it I produced something called own your ultimate again
2:10:43
I remember you talking about this yes yes and the subtitle is a grown-up conversation with Alison Armstrong about
2:10:51
what you can't live with and can't live in fact and it's it's not long it's not a long
2:10:59
program but it it's it's one I think it's one of the most important that I've
2:11:04
ever done because it has us come to term with ultimatums which ultimatums are
2:11:11
considered a bad word right that sounds like a note to me you're giving me note to me and what it
2:11:18
unwinds is the problem is not whittled to meetings and that ultimatum means your final
2:11:24
offer the problem is
2:11:29
people first of all not being clear about their ultimators and secondly that
2:11:35
when we present our ultimatums to another person
2:11:40
is when we sense that they are attached enough to being
2:11:46
with us to clean it's a weapon
2:11:52
yeah we don't reveal what we need to be
2:11:58
all in this to stay in whatever it is whether it's as an employee an employer
2:12:03
romantic as a parent providing for a child we don't reveal the ultimatum
2:12:09
until we sense the other person will submit to it because of how much they
2:12:15
love us how much they need us how much they value the work that we do that then
2:12:22
they'll find who changed our ultimatum and that's why it pisses people off because of what a manipulation means
2:12:30
coercive instead of leading with them
2:12:36
I have a student in our smart singles intensive who came to Pride himself on
2:12:43
being the most quickly unliked man in online dating
2:12:49
that's the dubious thing to be proud of he was so proud of himself because he was being so true to himself and putting
2:12:58
up right what he was looking for up front what he required and not budging
2:13:05
no matter how attractive he found the woman to be and meanwhile he was also learning to
2:13:11
understand women and how to help them feel safe while being true to himself
2:13:16
and he and he really prided himself on how quickly he got unlike meaning he didn't have to go sorry I mean he didn't
2:13:23
have to go to any trouble to interact with people who ultimately couldn't give him what he needed who oh
2:13:31
I see to account for what he wanted to be held account for and what he was unwilling to be held account for go away
2:13:37
if you're going to try to hold me to come for that I'm not that man got it unliked not disliked
2:13:43
okay like him and then start to interact and then disagree disappear yes and and
2:13:49
he loved it it was his 100 % true to himself but in every
2:13:54
single interaction tune himself to himself to himself which is what Schwartz singles is about on yourself
2:14:00
first or always lost and and so leading
2:14:05
with your ultimatum the owner ultimatums it's the beginning of that it's the
2:14:10
beginning of yes you may be rejected but get rejected when you care more about
2:14:17
liking yourself than being liked by somebody else when you care more about respecting
2:14:23
yourself then being respected by somebody else in other words when you're more loyal to your own requirements
2:14:31
wouldn't care the least about what they think about what you need instead of saving it for when you care the most
2:14:37
yes that's I mean this is this flies in the
2:14:43
face of what a lot of men are taught which is they're not taught that you as a man are allowed to have standards
2:14:49
right like that's that is a controversial idea there's nothing that causes more friction in a lot of online
2:14:55
circles than a man saying these are my standards he's like no you just have to you just have to accept me as I am if
2:15:02
you love me you have to accept me as I am right and and there's a degree in which you're delivering the ultimatum that's the coercive element right where
2:15:08
that shows up later versus if a man or woman can go through the exercise up
2:15:14
front and I think that's at least half of the power of it is to know what they are for yourself even before you meet
2:15:21
somebody like you're walking around carrying this knowledge inside yourself of what your ultimatums are like How
2:15:27
Deeply How Deeply empowering relationally me and my people gladly won't receive that gift
2:15:34
no yeah and then and then the challenge is is to keep being congruent
2:15:41
I I presented my ultimatums early and then I was in congruent I'm trying
2:15:49
to be nice and get over one so I was sending these mixed messages
2:15:55
that I would blow up about this every once in a while but in between I was incongruent
2:16:02
you know the ultimatum was a healthy diet and lifestyle yeah I remember you telling me yeah right and I'd watch him
2:16:08
put crap in his mouth feel terrible look terrible have low
2:16:13
energy right but I wouldn't say it when he was doing it I would just get upset about it every
2:16:19
once in a while ago and I told you this before overnight I require being with someone who has a
2:16:25
healthy diet and lifestyle but then in between I be inconsistent yeah
2:16:31
a disservice right being nice is a disservice being kind
2:16:38
being kind congruency is kind truth is kind yes
2:16:46
it's vital and that's a distinction that a lot of men are beginning to learn is that the opposite of nice isn't mean if
2:16:53
you stop being a nice guy you don't become a mean guy because a lot of men you know they they worry this is the
2:16:59
metaphor that I give the men that I work with because I run into this problem often a lot of guys worry that if they
2:17:06
were they pull the sword from the stone right they've sacrificed their own their own power then they pull the store they
2:17:13
ask themselves not in these words but if I pull the sword from the stone who will I become will I become a tyrant
2:17:20
right that's their worry because they've seen powerful embodied men before B
2:17:26
tyrants either from childhood and maybe not even like major league tyrants but they've experienced a strong embodied
2:17:32
man say crossing a boundary even even accidentally and like I don't want to be that and so to point to paint the
2:17:40
picture for them first of all that that you're even worried about that is proof
2:17:46
that you won't become that because you are the conscientious man who can pull that sword from the stone but the
2:17:52
ability to paint the difference in language between niceness and kindness
2:17:58
really helps crystallize it like you won't you'll stop being a nice guy but
2:18:03
you won't you you will become a kind man right which is which is a far better
2:18:09
posture of strength and being but you have to you have to risk something to do that you have to risk actually having
2:18:16
the sword in your hand and you have to be the kind of conscientious man the now
2:18:21
doesn't keep your power locked away but that keeps it in check and knows where to use it productively it's a whole
2:18:28
greater degree of self-responsibility and and when I when I paint that metaphor for them they get it it doesn't
2:18:35
mean they stop being afraid but they still they still get it because they're taught that the difference between
2:18:40
kindness the opposite of kindness is meanness and that's absolutely not the case but no one's ever painted the
2:18:46
picture for who they'll be as a fully embodied man that you don't lose the best parts of yourself when you take
2:18:52
your power on you enhance them and bring them to reality into manifestation
2:19:00
yay yay I want to be I want to be sensitive to
2:19:06
your time but I have I have three questions that um okay so um and we and I'll tell you
2:19:13
what they are up front I got a couple questions from women that wanted to ask you um about uh the case the kingdom and
2:19:21
then I have I have a question about these 14 different things because it came up in the last conversation and I
2:19:26
think that you've you've teased apart the pieces of the great reconciliation and I wanted to bring it up last time
2:19:32
but I I didn't get like it was one of those things like I watched it go away in the conversation like no come back so I want to get to that but the first the
2:19:39
first question that I got from one of my listeners is in the keys to the kingdom you lay out
2:19:44
the stages of a man's development where a man doesn't feel able uh to provide
2:19:50
for a family and that the woman has to be patient while the man gets to the point where he can become a provider
2:19:55
that he has to feel comfortable within himself and what this listener asked is what if there's a biological component
2:20:01
that's a that's an urgent need like physiologically for her and he doesn't feel like he's there yet how can she
2:20:09
communicate with him or or what's the dialogue that goes in there it's like hey I know that you feel like you're two
2:20:14
years away it it'll be it'll be significantly different for me two years from now like
2:20:20
how did how does she have that conversation what should she say how does that take place
2:20:27
well there's a lot of inquiring to do and it goes back to our conversation about
2:20:34
self-sufficiency because a man being ready for something
2:20:42
he's interacting with his own self-sufficiency can I handle this can I deliver this can
2:20:50
I be all that I need to do there are things that become possible in
2:20:55
Partnership that are Unthinkable and self-sufficiency can I raise a child
2:21:03
no I'm not ready to raise a child okay but are my wife and I ready to
2:21:08
raise a child do we have sufficient communication
2:21:13
skills are we aligned have we had all the conversations about how we would do that like
2:21:20
do I have can I have confidence in us I may not have complete confidence in
2:21:27
myself but I have confidence in US I know she brings out the best of me and
2:21:32
I'd surprise him to the attention and I know she has a limited reproductive lifestyle life cycle
2:21:39
so there's some give and take with medication okay honey there's this one thing I gotta do in the business before I know
2:21:47
I'll have enough bandwidth to be your partner and parenting a child and I want to be your partner I want you to be left
2:21:53
raising your children because I didn't have enough bandwidth to
2:21:59
I gotta get this one thing done which then her question can be so how can I
2:22:04
support you instead of that's stupid right you validate please don't say that indeed
2:22:11
that end of conversation right so there's things that are possible um and then I've interacted with a lot
2:22:18
of women because wanting to be a biological parent is a very strong
2:22:23
Instinct and it it is endangered much earlier in women's chronological lives
2:22:31
than women know into why women start getting wound up at about age 29 because that's when the
2:22:39
body is recognizing the lower levels of estrogen and testosterone which are
2:22:45
provided by that ovum um and they're disappearing right and so
2:22:51
those lower levels are registered as this is an emergency biological need and
2:22:57
we talk about that in understanding women and there are things that can be done if
2:23:02
if there's truly a joint desire and truly a conflict for example to harvest and
2:23:10
fertilize aims but implant them two years later
2:23:15
there are things that can be done but it's something this goes back to that
2:23:20
ultimatums thing we need to have the when of having children conversation
2:23:27
way before way before 30. yeah wait way
2:23:32
way before way before even getting married do you know it's it's something I'm
2:23:37
proud of my son for by the way he two years ago he said I'll be ready to have children in 10 years
2:23:46
he'll be he'll be 42 when he's ready to have children and he's very methodical and thinking about these are the moves I
2:23:53
need to make now in order to be ready to do that when I want to do and and so men have so many plans we
2:24:00
don't even know about that we have to be very safe to find out about um yes oh yeah yeah so I would say how
2:24:08
to have that conversation was it with with a heck of a lot of respect and be very clear what Perkins where her bones
2:24:17
are and have them backed up by facts not just feelings
2:24:23
go to the doctor ultrasound like ovaries what's my biological life here right
2:24:30
yeah I was so happy when I found out I had plumpers
2:24:36
more than I was supposed to have at 42 years old um so
2:24:42
that would be my answer to that question what's your next question
2:24:47
well just to just a tag on my response to the man in that situation if I could
2:24:53
speak to him would be there is a component of wait until you're ready but
2:24:58
men also can fall into a trap of never feeling ready for anything family whatever like I'm not ready I'm not
2:25:04
ready it's like there is a component of no you throw yourself off the cliff and you figure it out on the way down and
2:25:10
making a commitment to a wife and a family has the way of Turbo charging men's focus and productivity because now
2:25:17
I think a switch gets flipped in a man's Minds like now I am responsible and I've made the commitment to be responsible
2:25:23
for something and someone Beyond myself and that only in that leap can you find
2:25:29
the strength to do that so if you're waiting for some external or even internal thing to change and then I'll
2:25:34
be ready no like the actual doing of it creates the Readiness so that's that's
2:25:39
one of the teachings that's going around for men so women have a there's a dialogue dialogue component where it's
2:25:44
like well honey what do you actually need to feel ready and to have him say make it Concrete in a specific thing how
2:25:51
can I help you achieve that and then there's there that triggers a little accountability switch like oh wow okay
2:25:56
that create and that creates you know something tangible to work with and so that's a that's a you know rather
2:26:02
than a woman strategizing well how do I how do I approach how do I confront the enemy about this it's like no you can just say and for for the man to have
2:26:09
faith in the strength of the partnership and the strength of a self and himself and his brothers I think is powerful as
2:26:16
well yes well and what you're touching on is is also one of the obvious
2:26:22
answers what normally happens between men and women
2:26:28
it will seem like the man has to count on himself because because he's not
2:26:34
winning as a husband how is he going to win as a father with the same person
2:26:39
oh good point yes huge huge risk right he's already taken
2:26:46
on providing for her and he's not winging at it mostly because she won't let him mm-hmm
2:26:52
It all becomes internal and um my son's father actually said to me
2:27:00
once that he thought that it was a good thing I'd gotten pregnant because he thought he would never have been raped
2:27:09
okay got it yes yeah yeah and when we got divorced it was when he
2:27:15
actually dedicated himself to fatherhood
2:27:24
um what was your next ingredient next question um
2:27:30
I have been following your work from the beginning of my 10-year marriage your teachings I believe are why I'm still
2:27:36
married I also use the principles with my son I always boost him up with appreciation and I do my best to not
2:27:42
interrupt him when he talks although this one is hard for me what other tools do you recommend while raising a 10 year
2:27:48
old son um
2:27:55
it goes back to our conversation will about accountability or count on ability
2:28:02
and one of the things that we paid attention to is how someone relates to an
2:28:08
accountability has everything to do with how to interact with it so it's like a scale like unwilling to
2:28:17
be accountable we try to hold people accountable who are unwilling to be accountable that's the lowest level of
2:28:24
Duty would be the next level it's my duty as assignments my duty as a father
2:28:29
as a brother as an employer duty is a form of accountability
2:28:36
but at that level it's always going to be only to the standard of the person
2:28:43
who thinks it's a duty they're going to do the minimum of their duties
2:28:48
okay so that is willing to return you're willing to be accountable but
2:28:54
it'll be under certain conditions and then up from that is a request to be
2:29:00
accounted please pick me give that to me to take care and then that and it may be given that
2:29:07
to me to take care of because then I'll know it's taken care of right maybe give that to me to take care of
2:29:13
because I have a vision for it right because I'm capable at that I can get
2:29:18
the job done for the whole team and then up from requested I mentioned before is privileged it would be a
2:29:24
privilege to be accountable for it and as young as probably
2:29:33
um four or five years old it's appropriate to interact with young
2:29:39
people I don't call them children on purpose with young people about what
2:29:44
they can be counted on for and what I need to be able to count on you for are you willing to take that on be
2:29:51
interacted with as account honorable and how could I support you since you're committed to being accountable for that
2:29:58
what do you wish you were interested with if that was your job around here
2:30:03
you see life what do you wish was your job I wished mowing the lawn was my job
2:30:10
but I was a girl and those jobs were given the boys in the 60s I didn't get to mow the lawn or clean the pool I got
2:30:17
to vaccin and dust okay you can imagine my late 50s when I
2:30:24
got to work on my dad's car with him I'm excited I was to be painting the
2:30:31
calipers on his car the matching wreck
2:30:36
Dad I'm working on the so funny so that's beautiful yeah I mean
2:30:45
what he'll be empowered by is be known that he's counted on for what he wants
2:30:51
to be counted him and even what he'd like to grow into being Canada
2:30:58
it's it's tremendously empowering to young people to be held to account
2:31:04
there's so much smarter and more able and powerful and capable than a
2:31:09
different type and that's the way that we must get it yes especially the boys you're a typical
2:31:16
teenager I didn't have typical teenagers
2:31:21
at all I never went there you wouldn't [Music] well but I held my kids to account for
2:31:27
behaving in particular ways I never punished his punishment is
2:31:34
baloney mainly ever had real consequences in it they were finished
2:31:39
the desire to punish is deadly and and Punishment doesn't work
2:31:45
consequences real consequences actual consequences like if you don't get you're if you don't go to school
2:31:53
you end up with a lot of homework yeah yeah I didn't make my kids go to
2:31:58
school they decided to go to school because it was easier to do homework for other teacher was talking about stupid stuff
2:32:05
in the middle of class [Laughter]
2:32:11
accountability I recommend accountability that's great yeah it's um
2:32:17
calling calling to the archetype another book that you you might enjoy if you haven't if you haven't read it is king warrior magician lover by Robert Moore
2:32:24
and Douglas Gillette that's another one it's like calling to that King archetype even within a boy you know calling forth
2:32:30
not just uh when I hear the word Duty I think of something Beyond minimum but I
2:32:36
hear in in your hierarchy of you know that that what I think of of Duty is the privilege to do something like this is
2:32:42
my duty but yes that there's this hierarchy of um hierarchy of accountability we're at the
2:32:48
highest level like I would be privileged to take that on to give it to give a young boy the opportunity to perform to
2:32:55
that standard I mean that would be life-changing stuff for for a little boy especially especially if you give him
2:33:01
the tools to do it well right and he has a father and a mother who supports him in that that I mean absolutely
2:33:10
foundationally formative for his self-esteem and self-respect yes and every word in the language of Heroes
2:33:17
applies that was absolutely in fact I've seen it
2:33:23
a chapter one the word here oh wow wow I've never heard it before
2:33:30
responding the essence of what it is
2:33:36
[Music] yeah it works even with it works even with young boys as well which is such a
2:33:41
profound truth about men that it's it's part of us right it's not it's not something that that Allison came up with
2:33:48
and now that all men have to be taught and then we learn oh yeah it's like no no you've you've you've touched on
2:33:54
something that's fundamental and permanent and true in in the essential masculine makeup of men
2:34:00
then that was the power of it when I read it it's like it was like looking into a mirror and it's still like
2:34:05
looking into a mirror like listening into a mirror right and and that's that's the amazing part of it like I and
2:34:13
you talked about in the very beginning that you channeled you channeled the material or it was given to you whatever
2:34:18
the language is it's a it's a gift it chose to come through you into the world
2:34:24
and and um and the proof of that to me is that it's also blessed you and your life
2:34:32
right like you you received it and it continues to change and transform you and the men who are in your life and and
2:34:38
the women who in your life as well like in your personal life and me and so that's that's the the surest
2:34:43
testimony to the to the essential goodness of what you've discovered um
2:34:49
if I could say something to be complete your question from the father about
2:34:54
appreciation um there are different currencies of
2:35:00
appreciation and we often express appreciation in our own currencies
2:35:06
in it you may not register over there so it's really important to find out how do
2:35:13
you like to be appreciated and accountability can be a form of appreciation
2:35:21
um or it can be insulted haven't I done enough for you
2:35:29
um yeah it's it's one of the things that we have to be sensitive about interacting
2:35:35
with would you would you feel appreciated if that became your job
2:35:42
oh yeah they like you value them you trust me my job no that was fun to do this time
2:35:51
give me something else to do something else to do okay yeah
2:35:57
third question I've been waiting a year to get to say really save the best possible here's the thing
2:36:04
with here's the thing with the great reconciliation that I had realized uh it would have been it would have been
2:36:09
around when we met or after something like that but it was before we had that first Contact podcast conversation I
2:36:15
recognized that in the great reconciliation both men and women have to step into the circle at the same time
2:36:22
there can be no you go first it's like we both have to step into the circle at the same time and let go of a lot in the
2:36:30
spirit of faith and mutual trust and mutual love that it's not just women it's not just men it's both it's
2:36:36
happening simultaneously right and and the profound risk of trust and love and
2:36:43
faith that's embodied and all that and when you said that I realized that in that moment it sounded to me as if you
2:36:50
had taken apart the great reconciliation all the pieces of it and I was like oh I want what's that about and I wanted to
2:36:56
ask and I didn't ask because the conversation of course we went on our big rambling off-road journey and that
2:37:02
whole conversation and then four hours had gone by and it's like and it was gone and so I've had that thought in my
2:37:08
mind for over a year now wanting to talk about that specific thing that that
2:37:13
somehow it seems that you and I are looking at the same thing and that and that you see that you being you and
2:37:19
studying men and women the way that you do you see things at such a high at such a high resolution that I haven't been able to explore but there's something in
2:37:26
that there's something similar that you and I are looking at so I wanted to talk to you about that and and I don't know
2:37:32
if you can talk about what those 14 things are if it's in a course or what you can say about them but
2:37:37
please tell me it's been this giant mystery in my head
2:37:43
um so those Fortune things are in a close
2:37:50
um and I would propose to do them Justice that you and I
2:37:59
um have a different time to talk about okay and
2:38:04
um accountability is one of them
2:38:10
um by choice is the way I would put it it kind of give me my choice not just what
2:38:16
I'm trying to hold this to account for um sufficient clarity
2:38:24
there's a there's a sufficient amount of clarity that's required
2:38:29
um but I want to say something about the step into the room at the same time
2:38:37
because there's two sides of it
2:38:42
um the intent of my work directly on
2:38:47
partnership which there's 14 choices are is for people to embody those choices
2:38:56
and just so you use the word embody for people to embody those choices such that
2:39:02
they become what I call an invitation Department
2:39:08
so we can't make people partner and and not everyone is suited to partner and we
2:39:16
don't need to partner about everything in life we don't need to exclude
2:39:21
self-sufficiency um I think of human beings as as particle and waves
2:39:29
and the engineers we need to take care of
2:39:34
our particle in order to be a contribution to available waves in some
2:39:40
ways we participate in and it's also possible to lead it with um just called transformation
2:39:47
transformation teachers lead waves and
2:39:53
it's so to be an invitation to partner doesn't mean you're always going to get
2:40:01
a yes but until you're an invitation to partner you can't get it yes
2:40:07
and so this is to your your we have to step in at the same time
2:40:15
um we can't we can't control another stepping in we can only control elves
2:40:21
so if you step in as an invitation to partner and you're the only one standing
2:40:27
in the circle for years um we keep being an invitation to
2:40:32
partner but what I discovered once I stopped a masquerading men
2:40:38
is how much men are already an Invitational partner
2:40:43
and it had me inquire yes there are men who are not
2:40:51
they are self-sufficient as a principle even even Greg who had that as part of
2:40:57
his identity there were ways that we could partner magnificently like as parents
2:41:03
um but there's this other thing I want to
2:41:09
offer will and it happened between Dan and I just a short while ago at the
2:41:15
beginning of my five-week kind of vacation where where something happened in
2:41:23
checking into a hotel room in Nashville where he she went completely independent
2:41:30
to solve the problem and he didn't know that I was standing by to help solve it I mean this enormous
2:41:38
Rift I didn't just have my feelings hurt I was completely disconnected and
2:41:47
the way I described it to him the next day was that I I couldn't feel loved
2:41:57
I I could I I felt no love for him and I realized that I couldn't feel loved
2:42:03
period even for myself a really clear sign that I was deep in a
2:42:08
human instinctive reaction and when I told him I couldn't to love for you he said yes I could tell
2:42:16
and I became an island um and so here were these two human beings
2:42:24
in this situation together completely isolated I actually piled up pillows on
2:42:31
the edge of my bed between us like wanted a wall I was so
2:42:38
disconnected from my own spirit and a funny thing that happened the day
2:42:44
before when we were driving to the airport we passed a lake and this Lake normally has an island in the center of
2:42:52
it and I noticed that the water had fallen so low that there was now a land
2:42:58
breach between this island and it the surrounding environment and my remark
2:43:04
was wow I hope there are birds nesting on that island because now the Predators
2:43:10
can get to them through the land bridge and I just it was just an offhand
2:43:16
comment well we didn't speak for a lot
2:43:21
of hours like 16 hours or something we didn't speak to each other sharing a
2:43:27
hotel room about to attend a retreat I'm being Guided by higher consciousness
2:43:37
and I came out of the bathroom and he was standing there and he said can we hug
2:43:45
and I did not want time but we hoped
2:43:51
and it was like two boxes hugging there was no warmth no softness no
2:43:59
Comfort no connection no nothing but I acknowledged him later
2:44:06
for offering the land breach that he had become an island and that in
2:44:14
that moment asking for a hug he had offered a land bridge and even though I didn't want to I
2:44:20
accepted it and that was the beginning of us being able to talk about what had
2:44:26
happened and to sort it out and to reconcile and
2:44:34
we we now have evolved it because you know we we play so so land bridge became
2:44:40
hand bridge when there's a breakdown he'll hold out his hand and Bridge and
2:44:46
I'll take his hand either one I don't want him and we had a breakdown we got back from
2:44:52
my birthday trip to Hawaii so I came out with something that we
2:44:57
normally don't eat a scone for the non-gluten eaters food branch
2:45:04
[Music] and and I it's something that I said years and years ago about in a
2:45:11
partnership he or she who can dance
2:45:18
so if you if you can say I'm sorry if you can say let's talk if you can say
2:45:28
if you can reach out your hand you do reach out your hand
2:45:33
yeah and until we do that we won't know if the other person will
2:45:41
step into the circle until we step into the circle we won't know who it's going
2:45:46
to show and that's what stunned me when I stopped emasculating mine
2:45:53
I thought I'd have to learn how to bring out the prince instead of the fog I'd
2:45:59
learn how to I'd have to learn how to bring out the best sooner when I just stopped taking men's power
2:46:06
I was stunned and continue to be amazed by crew men offer before you're coming
2:46:17
just stop being unkind and find out who mental and so many of you are already in the
2:46:24
circle bewildered why women treat you like enemies
2:46:29
when all you want is good for us and you don't know that how we're
2:46:36
judging you and perceiving you we can't see your goodness because you don't express it like a woman which goes back
2:46:42
to our previous conversation so many men are trying to express it like a woman in order to be seen but it's a betrayal of
2:46:49
yourself and cause you to be even less yes
2:46:55
yes this is why from from the female side of the reconciliation
2:47:06
what I've said for years is is that it's up to us
2:47:11
men are not the source of the Cold War men are not not on the attack men are on
2:47:19
the defense when women stop attacking men this all
2:47:25
mountains they don't have a need for it and it's it's a different word that I use than
2:47:33
powerful in in Partnership power disappears
2:47:40
another way of saying it there's power enough between us that we don't even talk about it we don't even think about
2:47:47
it there's no power of struggle because there's power enough between us
2:47:52
there's no powerful power less power zero there's just us and and ability right
2:48:00
Powers the ability to do or generate a Cause right there's justability and partnership there's a
2:48:06
stability and that's what happens when you stop being afraid of each other and stop taking each other down or when we're
2:48:13
afraid of each other we say so I'm scared and
2:48:19
last year when I produced to own your ultimatums and Dan realized what I was
2:48:25
talking about he's like okay what else on your list will we break up a word I said every single thing yes
2:48:35
each and every one of them including the ones you already are if you stop being that way and you're 42 all together and
2:48:43
and at one point I said I want to run and he said and he reached out and he
2:48:50
said okay take my hand and then we're talking some more and a
2:48:55
little while lady goes now I want to run let's hold both hands
2:49:01
ha that's great what a man
2:49:12
yeah it's so big you know and he generates being that way when I'm at my
2:49:18
worst which is what I realized I needed in a partner was not just someone I inspired to be
2:49:25
great or it can be great when I'm safe but generates being great on their own
2:49:31
when I'm my scariest and my scared which obviously they go together and my skills
2:49:40
which is how to help me
2:49:46
he's got that he's got that strength of Venom to be able to contain that and to be able to respond to that into um
2:49:54
disarm it let's say yeah
2:50:00
so I think we should dedicate its own
2:50:05
session to the great reconciliency okay about add some some homework for you
2:50:13
before and I look forward to the conversation me too me too and and thank you for
2:50:20
pointing something out to me by the way because I I um I know a lot of men who have dealt with
2:50:27
being castrated for for a long time right and and whether they've allowed
2:50:34
them some selves to be or not they've been the recipients of it and they have a lot of distrust of women
2:50:40
um and it's earned it's earned and not only that do they have the distrust of women their
2:50:46
shamed persecuted for even mentioning it for even suggesting that women are anything less than perfect angels that
2:50:53
women have a shadow that women have a dark side that women are unkind or unfair to men they get in trouble for
2:50:58
even saying that and so so they have a lot of earned we'll call it resentment anger towards
2:51:05
women and towards the entire cultural moment that doesn't allow them
2:51:10
to even say this is wrong and bad and so when I say step into this and women of
2:51:16
course have their own culturally um cultivated resentments towards men as we've been discussing
2:51:21
so when I talk about having to step in at the same time I'm speaking to those men that like no
2:51:28
you have to let go of this as well but you help me you help and this is the world that I come from right like not
2:51:34
not where I was born but like the world of the Ben's movement that I've come through with men who have recognized a lot of things that you're describing
2:51:40
haven't been able to put as clear language to them and are like yeah I
2:51:45
don't even know if I I naturally my body want to do this but if I make myself
2:51:51
vulnerable or available to a woman is she gonna bring her daggers into the
2:51:57
circle what's her disincentive from doing that because men can look around and we can
2:52:02
see everywhere in movies and stuff like that where it's like all women got their daggers out hold on while I just
2:52:08
castrate all these men in this new Lord of the Rings series I'm just gonna six episodes of castrating men right and so
2:52:13
men look at that and they're like why should I trust women but you remind me that the men who think about those sort
2:52:20
of things is not all men that there are a lot of men are like look I'm just looking for partnership I'm just here trying to do my thing I want to be a
2:52:27
husband I want to be a provider and there are a lot of men that are already standing in the circle and you remind me of that so thank you
2:52:33
for that because I think that there are some men that I'm trying to encourage to step into the circle because I know many women who are like I'm so ready to step
2:52:40
into the circle well then there's a ton of other people out there men in particular that are like yeah Ma I've
2:52:45
been here I've been holding it down so thank you for reminding me of that you're welcome
2:52:53
I would also say well that part of my intent of the Queen's code specifically
2:53:00
the audiobook is that one way that men can remove it
2:53:08
is once hi honey we're on my last sentence I
2:53:14
think you want to say hi to Will oh cool
2:53:21
she's gotta take this cold close up okay oh you got a Snoopy on the Zamboni
2:53:27
come here honey look at this face what a blessing it
2:53:34
will hey what's up Dan good to see you good to see you
2:53:40
yeah that pillows not actually if you're
2:53:46
falling yeah I'll let you guys get back to it good
2:53:51
seeing your will good to see you Dan okay
2:53:58
um I I believe and I would love for you to
2:54:05
check this out for me I believe in listening to the Queen's
2:54:10
code and Men recognizing their resonance
2:54:16
of Who You Are
2:54:21
that you can also read it or listen to it from the intent to understand
2:54:30
the source of emasculation yes and by doing so when I witnessed
2:54:38
this you literally can become impervious to a masquerade
2:54:45
you can just see it for what it is yeah you can just see oh she's scared out of her lips I can have
2:54:52
this yeah and that that thought I can handle this I can be with this I don't
2:54:59
have to mess with this I don't have to keep to this all of those thoughts literally create themselves
2:55:06
you think you can handle it you can period
2:55:11
and and that's what I wish for men from the Queen's code not only to to see the
2:55:18
the goodness the honor of your own motivations and no longer let them be
2:55:24
attacked when when women are choosing you of baloney right except that just isn't
2:55:30
true not allow it yes and that's the strength that we as women
2:55:36
need we know when we're first set and and we respect the man who doesn't
2:55:43
fall for it I know who you are I know who I am I'm not falling for that
2:55:49
oh really oh thank goodness because we know we're our own worst
2:55:54
enemies so I I I'm working both sides of it for women
2:56:02
to give up justifying emasculating men which is the beginning of curing
2:56:08
ourselves of the habit and the reaction of it and for men to stop falling for it
2:56:17
you you don't have to agree to be a master yes
2:56:23
please decline
2:56:28
women will stop doing it some will
2:56:36
I I give a talk I know you have to go but I gave a talk at a conference in 2021 that I'm going to turn to a YouTube
2:56:41
video about this very subject about how men can stop allowing themselves to be emasculated and where it comes from in women so I'll send that to you when
2:56:48
that's done thank you link to it on our website we can have people watch it
2:56:54
I would love that I would love that thank you so much Alice continued
2:57:01
we'll communicate about that other stuff okay and then and then where would you like to send people
2:57:07
um any links to visit or social media profiles that you'd like um
2:57:13
Allison armstrong.com is easiest place it's the only way it's only a patient get that audiobook mm-hmm
2:57:20
yeah perfect we'll do that thank you thank you thank you Allison I love you I love
2:57:27
you too bye bye
Transcript
0:00
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual vibration
0:08
able to think thoughts and not others the whole capacities that come from
0:13
feeling truly safe nothing contributes to that the same way as one man that you
0:21
know is for you [Music]
0:30
hello and welcome to the Renaissance of men podcast my name is Will Spencer my guest this week is a speaker thought
0:36
leader and best-selling author of the keys to the kingdom and the Queen's code Allison Armstrong in 2018 as I was
0:44
discovering that the men's movement was much bigger than I realized reading Donovan and tomasi and listening to
0:50
Mickler and Peterson I also discovered Allison's books and I saw myself reflected in them to a degree that I
0:57
still find striking it's quite a thing to realize that a woman has just as many good things to say about men as men do
1:03
and perhaps even more but that's the Allison Armstrong and she's quite a thing too and now almost nine years
1:09
after publishing the Queen's code in print she's finally released it in audiobook version and not a moment too
1:15
soon because whether or not people know to call it that the great reconciliation is happening and the Queen's code
1:21
audiobook is here to help us hear and most importantly feel the ways we could be as men and women together in our our
1:28
conversation Allison and I discussed her journey to write and record the Queen's code the difference between needing
1:35
versus being needy how Allison used to treat men at parties long before she wrote the Queen's code the importance of
1:41
discovering our ultimatums or the things in relationship we're not willing to live without why we should all go a bit
1:47
easier on the nice guys and finally stories about her relationship with the man in her life Dan who even shows up at
1:54
the very end to say hi if you enjoy the Renaissance of men podcast thank you don't forget to hit that like button and
2:01
subscribe and share this episode so we can reach more men and women so please join me in welcoming this week's guest
2:06
on the Renaissance of men podcast the best-selling author and voice over artist of the Queen's code my friend
2:12
Allison Armstrong hey Alice and welcome back to the podcast thank you I'm so glad to
2:20
glad to be well I want to say congratulations you are now uh Far and Away my number one podcast of all time
2:25
first first podcast across 5 000 downloads which is pretty incredible when you think about it was like four
2:31
four hours long so it's really cool to see like they'll
2:37
just spike out of nowhere like hundreds of downloads in a month like someone must share it somewhere it's it's really
2:42
cool to see that just how how long the legs have been for that conversation wow well I I mention you a lot as well
2:51
so I don't know if people go looking at that point but um we have extraordinary conversations ever
2:58
since the first run for the Renaissance of men that's right that's right it seems to be a habit
3:07
well congratulations also on the release of the Queen's code audiobook which I finished listening to and you know as I
3:13
mentioned I've read the print the Kindle version I read the book a couple times but hearing it read in your voice
3:22
Blended a whole new shade of meaning to some of the interactions between the
3:27
characters your characterizations of them and and the meaning behind the words to really
3:33
um it brought it to life in a very different way from your imagination rather than just me imposing my
3:38
imagination on it and both are equally valid um so what was that process like for you recording the audiobook
3:48
it was it was intense it was emotional as you can hear my voice sometimes it
3:54
was yeah um there are a couple of things that were
4:01
on it like how did that happen but it goes back to
4:08
um as you know I started studying men in 1991. right right
4:15
um the the scene in the first chapter of keys of the Queen's Community actually
4:20
happened but the scene in the in the first chapter the things but it it happened to
4:26
me my my colleague co-worker kind of friend was called a bug phone and
4:34
um and I had the division that Kimberly is expressing and and then as I realized
4:43
you know I oh my gosh I'm really a friend from I'm a very successful
4:48
I prided myself in the way I thought of it as getting men to show their true
4:56
colors yeah um within like 10 days
5:01
yeah industrial frog farmer oh my gosh I did not want to fall in love again and
5:09
um and so I you know I had come to the conclusion that men are cons and
5:15
um and I want to reveal a con before I fell for it and it
5:22
it didn't include any that I had anything to do with the version of every man I was getting I thought that was the
5:29
real notion which I now equate to kicking a dog and then the dog when it
5:35
bites you or it runs away or it runs away and invites you and bites you and then runs away all those versions can
5:42
happen and um but this question popped into my head as I was sitting there
5:47
confronting it and the question was what if men are responding to women and and you know I've talked about that
5:54
question right and it's worth listening to those conversations in the in your in the podcast but when we did before
6:01
but that's really the beginning of a lot of strangeness that I'm only now coming to
6:08
terms with strangeness strangeness like that question popped into my head
6:16
where did that question come from that's always a question right yes yes and
6:22
that's what I've been delving into and and including other questions that have
6:31
guided my research that I thought I thought of that
6:36
question maybe the question thought of you
6:41
could be yes yes and but in this in the story of the Queen's code other strangeness I could never I never
6:49
questioned like these questions popping in my head what am I responding to women and then when Greg did something that
6:56
was just outrageous to me the question what if there's a good reason for that
7:01
um which led to all my research on that everybody everybody man or woman only
7:08
ever does what's important to them yeah ever and and to all the things we
7:15
think we should do that we haven't done they just haven't risen to the level of importance right and and that happened
7:22
because Greg you know knocked over a blender of mine left it broken on the floor
7:27
single Focus too extreme he was trying to get he was trying to catching that plane and um okay I get it yeah and then
7:36
what if no one's misbehaving including you right there's another one that popped in and then a few years ago
7:43
just right out of my mouth honor yourself first or always lost
7:48
and so these kinds of things that popped in right and
7:54
um so that's where my research began right what if men are responding to women and within
8:01
um that was 1981 within a year of that I had
8:07
um been asked to stop castrating men literally put that way um and had done had done so
8:15
um seeing what happens when we don't interact with men by handling their
8:21
power and then we'll talk um I had met Greg I my not yet husband
8:26
but soon to be um and I come to the conclusion that the
8:32
things that I learned in that year had to do shift that I I had to write a book
8:38
I have to put this in a book um but I
8:44
I talked to somebody about it and he told me how to tell whether I had enough material for a book and um if you have
8:50
more than 10 chapter titles you can do a book and I did definitely a
8:57
year in and it was shortly after that that I was
9:03
um meeting Greg's family and talking to his
9:09
um his sister of mine I could tell that her marriage was in trouble I've been watching the way they're interacting I
9:15
was watching you she talked about him I could tell like discussing he's the kingdom I could tell if he had become a
9:22
king and she hadn't caught up with that his needs were very different than the
9:28
20 years that they had been to raised a family together and she was an Adaptive and this this was gonna this was having
9:36
a huge effect and it could get worse and I I tried to tell her about it I tried
9:41
to tell her about the stages of development and she basically wasn't listening she
9:47
just didn't care and then I switched over to telling her story
9:52
and it's just this funny little story a friend of mine and I made up um called The Princess and the swamp rat
9:58
[Laughter] all right all right let's see where this
10:06
goes let's go back dude if you wanted to hear the story of The Princess and the song but I'll tell you the story but all of a
10:13
sudden I kind of do I all of a sudden I had a complete attention and and we were shopping together and
10:19
you know girls can talk and shop and but now she's paying attention and then her husband comes to pick us up give us a
10:25
ride back to the family reunion and and she's like sketch Allison's telling me the story let her finish and that's when
10:34
I got it oh how whatever this book is it needs to be a stolen
10:41
and oh okay yeah that's where it came from this is this has got to be a story
10:46
because we can hear things when we're not in the hot seat right when someone's saying you you are
10:53
doing this and don't do this this or this it's very hard to learn it's very hard to let our guards down it's very
11:00
hard to let our point of view be altered so
11:05
actually that the the next day we were driving home
11:10
and I was writing like the story started showing up and I was writing it
11:16
literally on a shopping list a brown paper shopping list oh wow it was just
11:23
coming out and I was writing writing writing and as I did that which was ended up just being the first couple of
11:29
chapters I don't even not even chapter like paragraphs and I don't even know where they ended up because what happened when I came to write the book
11:36
but it became obvious as I was doing that that I didn't know how to read it
11:41
but I already used what I learned about men against men that hurt me badly once
11:48
I found out how you really motivated Kryptonite and and that I
11:55
I needed to write a book that at that time I thought it was just for
12:01
women I didn't know well how much it would affect me and
12:06
I needed to write it and confirm oh my gosh the whole other thing we could talk
12:12
about but it yeah I'm sure we will since you since you listened to it but it read it in and listened to it and
12:18
so as I I realized that I needed to know more I needed to know more about
12:24
one what triggered women to masturbate nothing and
12:30
and to how they did it all the different ways that they did it and three and
12:36
maybe most importantly how they Justified yep yep
12:43
I needed to know a whole lot more about that and then fourth what are you doing
12:48
today right since the masculation comes from fear and frustration
12:53
what are you doing instead how do women emasculate men because they think that's
12:59
the only way to get what they need and even though it doesn't work they don't have an alternative so I had to figure
13:06
out all four of those things and that's when I told my best friend
13:12
um I think I need to do a workshop in order to learn how to teach this so that
13:21
I can write the book and
13:27
so we we did that starting in January of 1995. I didn't know it would take
13:35
almost 15 years of doing those workshops before one evening I knew I knew how to
13:43
write the book like like I I'd gotten enough of all those four things in all
13:48
these different expressions from thousands of women and contributions of
13:54
hundreds of men I knew I finally knew how to write it and so I wrote a book I
14:00
wrote a book proposal right chapter by chapter and this will be about this and that'll be about that and then we you
14:07
know went me and my agent went to New York and we had a bidding you know for
14:12
the for the publication of the book and that's very very exciting to talk about it but it does for your ego because of
14:17
bidding on your book and and you know and I chose the editor that
14:23
I loved the most about the most resonance with and and then sat down
14:29
to write the book and then that's when it got really strange which had happened
14:35
before she's the kingdom but I I didn't trust it to happen again
14:40
and that was you know I sat down to write and it literally occurs like it's
14:46
it's like this big but this big and it's right here and a
14:52
movie screen opened and a movie started playing and I started typing
14:59
and I didn't know the word channeling then and I still don't trust that word
15:04
it seems weird yeah to me and I what the heck is that I just know that
15:10
[Music] that no one can write a 96 000 word book
15:16
in three weeks it's it's pretty fast yeah and I oh I didn't read it I just
15:24
watched the movie and typed as fast as I could and it it was weird it was like trying to write a screenplay from a
15:32
movie right so then backwards backwards yeah just trying to describe what I was
15:40
seeing like like how do you describe this
15:45
how do you know you describe that yeah and and yeah and then it was it was also
15:53
really you know he's the kingdom which was what
15:59
I knew I could write at the time years before like 15 years ago a lot of many
16:04
years before 2003 I that ran as a movie too and that's
16:10
like 42 000 words and it I it all got typed up in like eight dates but I I
16:17
kind of forgot how weird it was never
16:22
what I know this is well I'm coming more to terms with the
16:29
strangeness of my life and because you know became stranger um when my husband died and and so
16:39
it's actually been um stunning and you had asked what it was like to do the audiobook
16:46
so I've done three book clubs I think before that two or three book clubs at
16:51
The Shift Network which meant I re-read the book to prepare for every session
16:57
every chapter with with the participants and even reading the book was there kept
17:05
being things that surprised me I didn't know that was taught in this book I didn't know we did that in this book I
17:12
didn't I don't remember that happening and and then when I was recording the
17:18
audiobook two things one was it was
17:24
so much more intense like like I just I I just
17:32
conveying the story reading the story consistent with how I watched it right
17:40
um I realized oh my gosh the emotion the the pain The Joy the struggle like
17:49
everything is so much more intense in me reading the story to to everybody
17:57
and and I was like matching the movie that I
18:02
watched right and the movie was Vivid for me as I was reading it even though
18:08
every part I was reading I didn't remember was in there right and and when I was typing up the
18:17
movie like people have asked me so how did you pick these eight characters I did it no
18:24
why did you have the story evolved like this I did it couldn't tell you
18:31
I did it I transcribed the moon I did all the research I mean I did everything
18:39
in in the Queen's code is validated by real life research that
18:45
I did is it anything in there that is outrageous outlandish Unthinkable no
18:51
it's all based on real research and the characters in the story
18:59
are just themselves and which was then what happened that was really now this
19:06
is odd upon Odd as I was um as I was doing the audio recording and
19:13
sometimes I just have to stop because I was overwhelmed with emotion and there
19:19
was one particular time that I just I I lost it do you know
19:26
um oh my gosh um just so you're not distracted by
19:33
wondering uh it's the part when Bert confronts Claudia about how exhausted
19:41
teaching it is for her and what you see him happening to her and she as he's
19:49
making he wants to make a deal as he's as he's making a deal with her
19:58
um and telling her what she she needs and what it would provide um at the end of that you might remember
20:05
he says I'm not done meeting you you know remember that yeah
20:13
I I don't know how long it took and how many times I had to retake that to get through it because I didn't know that
20:20
that was in the Queen's code and that was what I was literally screaming at
20:27
Greg while I was trying to bring him back from the heart
20:35
if I was doing my version of superior that's watched on TV what it didn't
20:41
matter if I could have done it right it was a triple explosion in his chest but that's what I was yelling at him I'm not
20:47
done anything yet I just reading that in a book oh oh my
20:54
gosh and so that wasn't even another strange part
21:01
I wanted to tell you the other Strange point was and I don't know how this happens how
21:07
does a movie change so as I was recording the audiobook
21:14
you know this about me right I have this thing about truth right and Truth has a
21:20
Inlet they can't authenticity has a has a feel to it and
21:27
um what I call Old brain when someone's not present when someone's not present
21:33
and they're just speaking rotely about something they're used to speaking about or words that don't really mean anything
21:41
to them anymore they don't stand out it has this quality I call I call Old brain it's kind of it's fake okay and I can
21:49
hear it and people aren't learned right when they're when they're an old brain they're not learning who needs all that
21:54
new girlfriend I see I see yeah so so I just I just had this feel first up and
22:02
it took a long time for me to figure out that it only happened when
22:07
Claudia was speaking and I had to retake Claudius parts
22:16
um it ended up taking usually four times I would have to redo it before it had
22:24
the resonance of what she meant yep that makes sense yeah you live in that material well what
22:32
was strange was that I would do it the way that I heard it
22:38
the way that I heard it when I first transcribed the book I would say it that way and it wouldn't be right and I'd say
22:46
it again and so on here I'll say it again and always when it was finally right Claudia had changed in the 10
22:55
years since I watched the movie Claudia changed she was both more
23:01
intense more playful and more compassionate
23:06
then then the person I watched in a movie
23:13
how does that how does that happen but but I kept doing it until it felt
23:21
right and and it was delightful to me to see what had happened to her
23:28
some people might say that's also happened to me that was going to be my question
23:33
well that's another thing that's odd about the Queen's code is you know when I started studying men I
23:41
was Melissa I I was that awful
23:48
incomprehensible it right was that hurt I was that bitter I
23:54
was that vengeful and antagonistic I I was
24:00
Melissa and then and then I became Kimberly when I found out I was a frog
24:05
farmer and got curious right um and Karen I never really was Karen I
24:13
just taught a lot of kittens right um but then here here I was reading this
24:20
last year and I had become more cloudier
24:26
got it 30 years of teaching this material and the vastness right because
24:32
I've never stopped researching um
24:38
so I just kept thinking as I was recording
24:43
it that I I wanted it just kept I just kept hearing I want to be there for people I want to be there for people and
24:51
because how intense it is and how quickly you get to chapter three [Laughter]
24:58
I had months before I got to chapter three in my life when I was studying
25:04
yes yes yeah folks are having like four hours of
25:11
listening to the book before they get to chapter three Inner Path to completely
25:19
alter the way that they're interacting with themselves and others and and I
25:25
just kept thinking I got I gotta do that for them I want to be there for them and I um I just started last week the second
25:33
time I caught your Quince card Journey because everyone has a different Journey now I'm looking forward to hearing about
25:38
yours and everyone's is different and I just wanted to be there to answer their
25:45
questions right just like like Karen and Kimberly got to ask all their questions before
25:51
they took the big the laying down the sword I right yeah I wanted my people to get to do
25:59
that and I did it over the summer and I just started doing it for the second time because it's it's such an amazing
26:05
thing to do and and I'm I'm still learning from the klinska that's what
26:13
that's another strange thing yeah me too me too your third time my third time
26:23
so tell me about it my Queen's code Journey follow-up question yeah yeah and before we do that is there a do
26:30
you have a fan in there or something like that oh let me fix that let me okay okay good no problem sorry about that
26:37
that's okay that's believe me I've had way worse situations to work with in
26:43
podcasts before so this was this was an easy fix Okay so
26:48
um you know my you asked about my Queen's code journey and yeah there's a couple there's a
26:55
couple things I want to point out before I answer that question first is that
27:00
um you started writing and thinking about writing about about men in the 90s now most people who are in what we call
27:08
the Men's movement now didn't start doing that until like 2005 2010 I mean
27:14
you had guys like Robert Bly and Warren Farrell and and uh Douglas uh uh Douglas
27:20
Wilson and and Robert Moore Douglas Gillette sorry um doing it in the early 90s but you
27:26
started as far back as then and I don't know that that's appreciated enough that you've been doing this longer than most
27:32
men have been doing it which I think is is pretty remarkable so that you've had 30 or so years to develop which I think
27:38
is what gives your work the power that it does and um and it's so strange that you've been doing it for so long but you
27:45
go talk to men about like no no I've never heard of Allison Armstrong but then there's all these other people over here who have so you know that's always
27:51
very cool and then I think the other thing is that you know the The Queen's code audiobook
27:57
is what almost 11 hours long just over 10 hours long yeah right and so you're talking about
28:03
multiple takes I mean I can imagine it must have taken you 40 hours or so probably to try and record it I mean at
28:10
least you know if you're trying Claudia over and over again and Claudia talks a lot in the book as it turns out
28:17
um I don't know I'd have to look at the bill from the sound engineer
28:24
I just know that there were there are whole parts that I didn't have to do multiple things
28:31
got it it was usually just climbing okay um and
28:39
[Music] yeah it it it probably I'm trying to
28:46
think how many weekends do you spend doing that there's probably about 20 hours of me recording but then we I had
28:53
multiple people listened and um and and went back and did retakes and
29:02
things to um and just things that like squeaky chairs there's no such thing as I'm not
29:09
screened here no such thing even in a professional Sound Studio yes yeah so so
29:17
there were there are a lot of people who participated in the quality of it and
29:22
you know had them um the last one had literally Bose
29:28
headphones on and she was I was having her listen for anything that would
29:34
distract people from The Experience they were in happened to them right
29:41
had someone munching next to you with some popcorn in a movie right right I for some reason I guess I
29:48
had pictured you recording it at home but if you actually went into an audio like a professional studio that makes
29:54
sense that makes sense too that must have been a very different experience actually because I could picture you at
30:00
home in in your home studio or something like that recording it privately but to be in a professional studio recording
30:06
that stuff in front of other people must have been that must have been an experience I have to ask about that
30:13
because I just pictured you doing it alone and being able to have your own kind of experience re-encountering and
30:18
trying to embody some of the things the characters are saying and the story itself but it was actually a shared
30:24
experience in a way like that must have been that must have been a whole other thing
30:29
well it it habits its moments um his name is Steve Boynton and
30:36
um Dan found him for me he did a great job the audio sounds incredible yeah
30:42
thank you he he was amazing I never met him before scheduling to do this
30:50
um it's actually what had me end up moving one of the things that the impetus for moving the steamboat oh was
30:58
I already needed to be here for periods of time to do the recording and um and
31:05
so I moved here in the middle of it based on other things and uh
31:10
and so he was he was someone who didn't know me he didn't know my work or
31:16
anything about it um he didn't even really follow along in
31:21
this story um in the beginning she was just being technical right and and it wasn't until
31:30
later on um one of the times that that the emotion
31:38
um came through I think it was Kimberly's emotion that came through and I and I said I said I I think I need to
31:46
do that again and and he actually said it sounded right like what happened
31:53
but but then something would happen it was very much further along in the bucket and he's like I don't think you
32:01
need to it fits and search the way he listened to change that's great
32:06
um but he was present for I mean there literally were times I just broke down and silent and and he just he's waiting
32:15
until I recovered myself um
32:27
part of what would have me end up be emotional will is that
32:33
is that however they do it um those the characters those people
32:40
exist and um when I was transcribing to the
32:47
kingdom like one morning I I woke up and
32:53
um I think you you you're right he's the Kingdom right or did you listen to it I read that first okay good yeah I like it
33:00
for people to read it first but they don't they don't have to and um so that was also a movie right and I
33:07
didn't decide on those four characters and and then for them those four to go
33:13
on and become eight but when I was writing he's the kingdom like I woke up one morning and I knew
33:21
that today was the day that Karen was going to see the table right the table
33:27
okay this table keeps getting referred to right yeah and um
33:32
and I just knew there was something special about this table but I didn't know what it was because
33:38
because I'm just transcribing the movie and I woke up that morning I thought oh
33:44
Karen's gonna see the table today and I said out loud do you think you should show it to me
33:51
and then boom I saw the tape right and and just
33:58
oh my gosh right I didn't see Kimberly's chair so Kimberly saw hurt you oh and
34:07
and tell her and Karen and Bert were standing in front of the chair and she was asking him about it right and why he
34:12
did it I didn't know any of that and but what happened
34:20
what happens is is that I can check in with them so I'm about in the first trimester
34:29
pregnant with the sequel movement and
34:35
um and it's tempting for me to see if I can only do it in an
34:40
audiobook instead of a pre-book because now I know how different
34:47
my conveyance of this story is from someone reading it to themselves and
34:54
um this beautiful woman in South Africa her name is Candice um
34:59
what she expressed to me and talking about having read the Queen's bed which she did a few years ago and then
35:05
listening to it she said and it was so shocking to me I can't
35:11
quote her accurately I need to go back and listen to it but it was to the effect of she said Allison I realized
35:17
that I didn't read the men's parts
35:24
to myself the way that you do because of my prejudice against men that
35:33
they would never be that I think she said that sincere or that
35:40
emotion and I and that's when I realized oh my
35:46
gosh everyone who's read the Queen's code since it was published in 2012
35:52
right everyone which is I don't somewhere over a hundred
35:58
thousand people have read it to themselves we don't know the exact number because right when we originally
36:05
printed it we made it possible for people to download it and print out as many copies as they want
36:12
oops I mean cool but oops it wasn't a Hoops I did it on purpose oh okay okay
36:18
yeah I you know I've expressed it as uh you know my goal is to be those
36:24
pirated author what you wish for well
36:31
I I am and people actually I'll say how did you how did you find out about me and they'll be like I'm sorry
36:39
my friend made a copy of the NSYNC CD and gave it to me okay it's cool
36:48
originally published please to the kingdom we people um people got a PDF
36:55
and it came with a letter that said um well we hope you'll let your friends
37:01
and family buy their own copy of Tuesday Kingdom if you just can't help it I
37:07
forgive you in advance I just would say
37:16
and I don't know how many people did that but I'm a messenger right so get the message
37:22
out and people passing secret notes so sometimes one of the best ways to do it and
37:29
anyhow my point was where I started out with is I can I can check in I can check
37:35
in with the storm and it's like they give me movie trailers
37:42
of the of what's to come oh
37:47
there we go [Laughter] yes yes and so I knew before recording
37:55
the audiobook last year I knew that the next book starts a year after the
38:02
Queen's code minutes it's it's been it's been a year and and
38:09
I know it starts with the characters reflecting back on all that happened for
38:14
them in that year and how excited they are now that they the the lessons
38:22
um yeah so there's things that I know are going to happen that colored me
38:30
recording the audio oh sort of like you were foreshadowing almost in a way well I just knew but
38:38
when I originally transcribed it I didn't know that that was going to
38:43
happen now I know things that are going to happen that I didn't know and it changed
38:51
um yeah well I think it's you asked me about my Queen's code journey and I'm actually
38:57
really enjoying hearing about your Queen's code Journey right because most
39:02
people don't really have well I can't say that but you know it's a book your books profoundly impacted me
39:10
and um and I want to talk about that in a second but it's really amazing to hear the way that your own books have
39:16
impacted you and and I think that's the thing that really came through in listening to the
39:23
audiobook was that I know you and we've spent a lot of time talking and I could listen into the audiobook and I could I
39:30
could hear inflections in your voice and the way that you would say things I was like okay I bet that was a pretty meaningful kind of moment or hear you
39:38
smiling in some ways and it was like okay and so so I got a hint of it but to
39:43
hear the way that it's evolved for you over 30 or so years since your initial
39:48
being called a frog farmer and you told me that that was a real story and and
39:54
um the story about the snap shirts right right
40:00
yeah yeah okay so can you tell can you tell that story real quick because I
40:06
think it really it's like a point A to point B C D kind of thing where it's
40:12
like to imagine to know you now and to read the ways that you write and think
40:17
and teach about men and and to read the way that you to hear you tell the story of the way that you were yeah it's one
40:25
of those things like how does a person get from there to from from point A to point B so if you tell the snapshot
40:31
story because I think I think it'll really impact a lot of people to hear that
40:36
um oh boy well I don't know if I gave you this
40:41
background when I told it to them um
40:47
so I always 17 and by then I'd already
40:53
concluded that men are bigger and stronger and they'll hurt them
41:01
and so I'd already unconsciously taken up
41:09
disempowerment and and my
41:15
Forte if you will um
41:20
[Laughter] Forte and disempowering Men exactly so
41:28
if I forte in this empowering men was keeping men off balance
41:35
hmm so um yeah it can feel yourself into that's
41:42
a certain way of being disempowered so it wasn't it was rarely a direct hit
41:49
it was just a sense that if I could tell when a man was on tilt like tilt like
41:54
just tilted on one foot again couldn't attack I felt safe when he couldn't
42:01
get his bearings when he couldn't to piss back together that's when I felt
42:07
safe and so the way that it manifested in
42:16
1978 was going to parties and I um I had
42:23
been challenged uh by a friend to not drink
42:28
and um and so I wasn't I I was at a I mean
42:33
people 17 year old shouldn't be drinking anyway but never mind that
42:38
so I so I wasn't drinking and I would do it even when I was drinking I I so I
42:45
carried I had a bottle of beer I filled it with water but I had a bottle of beer because I was tired of people asking me
42:51
why I wasn't drinking and um and it was the era of you know of
42:59
Urban Cowboy and snap shirts and actually wearing I'm
43:05
wearing one I'm wearing one I didn't plan this
43:11
didn't plan it yeah and I yeah and I had a particular um
43:18
disdain if you will for athletes um to me they're in the most full of
43:25
themselves the most like mean and inconsiderate and and so they were like
43:32
they were my Target and um and I think at that particular party
43:39
I think I got at least three like a couple of swimmers you know oh man
43:45
[Laughter] and I as you know I I would walk up to
43:52
them and they'd have a beer in their hand and I'd ask them could they please hold my beer and they would go okay and
43:58
they'd reach out take my beer now they have both hands full and I would just reach out and go
44:04
and snap all the snaps on their shirt and I actually was shocked the first
44:11
time it had been because these were it might be these were peacocks right Easter yeah these were
44:18
these young men who walked around like I'm all that and so when I you know
44:25
ripped open their shirt revealing their pecs and abs that they worked so hard on I expected them to be I thought they'd
44:33
be cool about it right but when they weren't when instead they went like this
44:39
two beers in the beers foaming out trying to conceal themselves
44:46
um yeah I thought it was hilarious and and I felt safe and I felt like I put these
44:54
I'll spare the word I had a bad word for them I yeah I put
45:00
them in their place and I just thought that I said after that and go on with what I was doing and
45:07
it's funny you asked me to tell it to you well because because I mean knowing what I know now and how
45:17
how much that um that how much the posture right how
45:22
much the posture that I interpreted as such egotism
45:29
um is really more the posture of a warrior on guard
45:34
and part of being on guard is to reveal nothing that could be used
45:40
against you and and women don't know that if you
45:48
share something meaningful to you with us and we share it with other people
45:54
that we have just revealed you um and that's a betrayal for a man yeah
46:01
and so yeah so for me to do that with their shirt and reveal them when they
46:09
weren't in that state because literally they were helping me in that moment would you hold this for me sure
46:16
right I like cut the best part of them and then used it against them and I I
46:23
didn't know any of that [Music] it's pretty incredible to think that
46:28
that's where you started doing that because you know I can imagine that there are a lot of women
46:34
who keep men off balance or who don't respect men or like men or have many
46:41
negative beliefs about them about men but would never go so far as to do something like that like to actively
46:48
like it's one thing to say something at a man like like um you know kind of you know to shame a man like in a checkout
46:54
line or something like that Supermarket or wherever it shows up right it's something else entirely to walk up to a
47:00
man and actually rip his shirt open it's a snap shirt so you're not ruining a shirt right but like there's another
47:05
thing to actually physically interact with a man and that way to sort of cross that boundary like that's a degree of
47:11
like I can't even fathom that happening now again it's at a party and stuff like
47:17
that and you know it's it's a kind of a it's kind of a different kind of environment than just doing it you know at the at the mall or something like
47:23
that like hey buddy you know very different but still that that you were that forward about it and and almost
47:30
Unapologetic and at the time Unapologetic right
47:37
and even after the third time you did it he stopped doing it but after the third time was there any feelings of remorse
47:43
like maybe I shouldn't have done that or was like yeah I do this to guys for fun
47:48
oh that was just three times at that point
47:54
you said what
48:05
I'm in a minute with that
48:13
um I mean I I have my first crush on a boy
48:21
when I was seven okay and
48:32
probably even younger my first like a real Crush would have been with my with my big brother you don't think of it as
48:38
a crush but you know my brother was 15 months older than me and I just wanted to be with him
48:44
I didn't I just wanted to follow around with the news there's this amazing space about him
48:51
even as a child I just even though he sometimes it was so cool to me I just
48:57
would always go back to wanting to follow him around and and you know I
49:02
wanted to play with Chris and um
49:08
and my you know my father my father adored me he wasn't around much
49:15
um but when he was he was he was so kind
49:21
you know like there are things I wanted to do like I wanted to learn cursive
49:26
and at school they said I wasn't old enough to learn cursor they wouldn't teach me
49:32
and so my dad sat down and taught me cursing
49:38
and um I think I I mean I just I just always
49:45
loved men I always loved boys I always would rather be with boys and with girls
49:53
and and I always had one girlfriend one best girlfriend
49:59
um but I I'd rather play with the boys you guys to wave
50:05
sometimes and um
50:10
but that feeling that way made me really
50:16
vulnerable and and also if you think of the time when I grew up right I was born in 1960
50:24
so I was becoming right so I was becoming a
50:32
a young woman at a time when when the old rules and stereotypes which
50:41
my mother was part of right a homemaker and uh and women's Liberation and
50:51
Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better which my mom danced around and sung in the kitchen
50:57
and uh the messages right to the message of
51:03
Barbie dolls and you can run a truck through her thighs so
51:11
yeah right yeah yeah introduce thigh gap to women and had us believe we're
51:17
supposed to have that and and and just this this message from my
51:24
mother who was so pissed at my father for not giving her the fairy tale life
51:30
she thought she was signing up for and her own
51:36
intellect that didn't
51:43
how women were thought of at the time do you know didn't have a full expression so she mostly hid it and was conniving
51:52
and and this this message that that really
51:58
as a woman you have to have a man who's your man where's your man you
52:06
don't what you don't have a man you've got to have a man Barbie's gotta
52:11
have a Ken and where's Skipper's boyfriend
52:16
who's skipper Skipper's by his little sister oh okay
52:22
Barbie had a Ken blonde Ken brunette Ken but she could pick her Ken before we had
52:30
to have a kitten so you have to have a man but don't ever need him
52:41
yes and make sure he knows you don't mean to him
52:48
yeah mission accomplished yes yes and but
52:55
the the the conflict right you gotta have one but never need him
53:01
and and then as I started studying then finding out and then would just throw it
53:08
they they would just throw the comment off they didn't know it was earth-shattering
53:14
to say something like well she didn't need it she didn't need me so I but for
53:20
someone who did it in direct conflict with what I was
53:26
taught and what so many women to the Sea are proving I think think that the less
53:32
I need you the more attractive I will be to you um
53:37
exactly so we we have my friend who use this works conflate we
53:45
have completed meeting and needy oh that's great yes that's great so
53:54
women are terrified of being perceived as needed being perceived as weak and
54:01
needy and so instead of addressing that like
54:07
we started asking men what what does meeting mean to you
54:16
and one man the way one man put it was maybe is when you can't handle the basic
54:24
components of life yes
54:29
yeah and that's completely different than never
54:36
needing something from another human being never needing help for example right or and it's the source
54:45
of as gets talked about in the Queen's code the source of women not asking for
54:51
help in a way that's dignified supportive empowering
54:57
um other people can win at providing it right because we don't ever want to need help we don't ask for help
55:03
in a timely way or with respect and then we end up needing to be saved because
55:11
we've got to know our head and then we're pissed at the lecture saving comes with which the queen codes illuminate
55:17
why the lecture um and and it just ends up
55:24
it just ends up making it worse right getting a lecture for needing to
55:29
be saved has us it reaffirms never needed me because they'll be attached
55:37
in instead of understanding really how huge the difference is and what it means
55:42
to a man who's instinctually always
55:47
exercising discipline about a limited amount of time and money and energy and
55:52
that is really invested in his plans and something that he's got enough to his
55:59
plan in order to keep someone who cares about from a big consequence
56:04
that yeah that's going to come with a lecture yes ask me sooner I could have planned
56:10
on this and I would have been happy to provide I didn't know any of that
56:15
sure I mean you know but but as Claudia illustrates in the Queen's code that
56:20
that inheritance and I think that's the that's the power of of Claudia as a
56:26
character is that she's talking about nine generations of inheritance about how men work that got lost in Myra's
56:34
generation who I assume is the baby boomer generation right that's sort of around that time roughly right like in
56:40
that in that you know she's probably born or born around the same time as you are somewhere somewhere in that range
56:45
right that there's this all this wisdom nine Generations is what like a couple hundred years 300 years maybe of
56:51
information about men it's even more than that's it Generations used to be measured in 25 years and Claudius
56:58
family's been at it for 500 years 500 years okay so here's foreign
57:05
so here's 500 years of knowledge about how men work that is the entire inheritance is just discarded by her
57:12
daughter like whatever I don't have any need or want for it and so it's not like
57:17
Allison Armstrong is Conjuring this stuff up out of nowhere like you've spent centuries yourself studying men
57:23
and women and you figured it out it's like no this inheritance this knowledge about men was there it was understood
57:28
how women can relate to men and how men can relate to women how men can relate to themselves that's a whole other thing
57:34
and it was just thrown out it was just thrown out in favor of um
57:39
I like how you said needing versus needy I like that distinction the one that I
57:45
that I talk a lot about is um equality versus sameness like that's another
57:51
that's another thing that gets conflated and then and then there's also um strong and independent versus soft
57:58
and self-sufficient and it's that it's that independent like what you're looking for is not a woman who's
58:03
independent doesn't need a man but she can take care of herself she's self-sufficient right and so I really
58:09
like that you added that third piece needy needing versus needy right because
58:14
there's there's a big difference for a man in there there's a huge difference in can I
58:22
I mean I've can I talk about the independence and self-sufficiency yeah please please
58:28
um my my mother used to say to me when I
58:34
was wanting to be married again so I got married
58:39
when I was 23 in and that was the man to whom I was with Melissa because he
58:46
didn't do anything husbands are supposed to do and is that is that because he actually didn't or that's because what you
58:52
thought you thought he did like Melissa Scott's doing a decent job but Melissa's just cutting him off of
58:58
the knees every chance she gets right well the important part of my sentence
59:03
is what I thought he should do that's what I yeah okay yeah so
59:11
he wasn't anything that I thought a husband would be and he wasn't that way
59:16
before we got married but I thought getting married would change him I thought that Minister had buried them
59:23
yeah it's amazing and he would change into a Heisman and after we got married and I told him
59:30
the light had come on in my car and it needed its oil changed and he said you should take it to Jiffy
59:36
Lube that was my first indication that no no no husbands take care of cars
59:44
that's what husbands do they take care of quotes yes it's it's written on the it's
59:51
written on the on the stone tablets of husbandry yeah and um so anyhow when I was wanting
1:00:00
to be married my mother said to me um well Allison you may have to give up
1:00:06
your precious self-sufficiency and your damn Independence
1:00:12
at least the two different concepts they they actually and they are in the
1:00:18
way that um when I created the course that at the time was called celebrating men in
1:00:23
marriage um because it was everything I'd learned from Men about marriage and and actually
1:00:29
really intelligent about marriage um in a way that women generally aren't
1:00:37
um because men take commitment very seriously very seriously very seriously
1:00:43
and and you know I'm a dictionary girl so as
1:00:48
that course was coming through again with all these thoughts that I
1:00:56
thought were my own um I looked up Independence in self-sufficiency
1:01:02
and and women want to be married but they want
1:01:08
to be independent but independent means free from the influence of another
1:01:15
good way to be married exactly and so that's why a man will think this woman
1:01:23
could be my wife she has all the qualities I'm looking for in my wife and then she tells them about something
1:01:30
she's decided and in her behind
1:01:35
they're not serious enough for him to have the right to an opinion let them Lona
1:01:43
vote so she just decided you know she's selling her house she's you know she
1:01:51
just decides stuff and um and to her he doesn't have the right to
1:01:58
say anything about that she doesn't have enough status that he deserves to have influence
1:02:05
and he she doesn't women don't know that when she does that she thinks oh my gosh
1:02:13
would she do that if we were men because to him it's not about
1:02:20
the right to influence to him it's about we're checking out sharing lives
1:02:27
together how do we do things how do we decide things how do we solve problems what are we doing we're upset I'm and
1:02:34
this is a this is meeting to the puzzle pieces fit together and that free from
1:02:41
influence here's the result oh my God yes I
1:02:49
marriage isn't about independence it's about you honor yourself but you're
1:02:55
not free from influence everything about your partner influences your life whether you like it yes yes
1:03:02
which is why I think people have very healthy reasons we're not getting married and
1:03:08
and then self-sufficiency this is one of the things that I
1:03:13
had interact with women they want a boyfriend they want they even say they want to be married
1:03:20
and they're and they have this value of self-sufficiency which self-sufficiency
1:03:26
is an instinctual value right if you can't
1:03:32
provide for yourself right if you can't handle the normal things in life by yourself you're gonna die
1:03:40
but it all depends on what you're up to in your life
1:03:45
right once you commit to something that's beyond an individual's ability to
1:03:52
create self-sufficiency is no longer valid
1:03:59
like no this and you guys know this you taught me this oh like
1:04:04
my brother my brother's this amazing organic farmer right he goes out to his field and he's got this thing that he
1:04:11
wants to create he starts working on it um he's trying to solve a problem and he
1:04:17
gets to a point where he goes oh this is a two-man job
1:04:22
and he just concludes that he doesn't he's not embarrassed or ashamed of
1:04:27
himself for not being able to do it it's a two-man job or this is going to take a
1:04:35
tin it's not there's no pride of self-sufficiency it's retaken on
1:04:40
something that's beyond my ability to do and this is my part and I need people
1:04:46
who are able to do these other parts including I'm not a good team leader I need someone to read this too
1:04:51
okay and so it's it's one of the things that I appreciate so much that I've
1:04:56
learned from that then it's it's just a fact right it's not a
1:05:05
judgment it's just a fact given what you're committed to and you know I'm
1:05:10
passionate about partnership and in our our course Lux which is
1:05:17
online starts out by saying most people aren't up to anything big enough in their life to require perch
1:05:24
and we do so good purpose keep our lives small enough we keep our
1:05:29
Ambitions small enough so that we can be self-sufficient
1:05:36
and it ends up being a cert going from a Bible imperative to Identity
1:05:44
and and so we'll keep limiting ourselves we will have an idea to take on something and oh but I couldn't do that
1:05:50
myself let me just killed it I can't do it myself and so
1:05:56
yes a certain level of Competency I would call it in the in the way that I have put it yeah instead of
1:06:02
self-sufficiency I would what I've said is as a because women are like oh men you know men don't like
1:06:09
strong women and like uh hello instinctually
1:06:16
he's looking he's going to partner with a woman he is looking for the strongest
1:06:23
most competent partner that he thinks he can attract and keep
1:06:35
who's strong and confident but left with I got nothing to give her right because
1:06:41
he's looking for what would she need from me right what can I contribute to her how
1:06:48
does she just need me to have a better life and meanwhile women are concealing
1:06:54
what it is that like I tease women okay you're so proud of it self-sufficient so
1:07:02
I want you to make a list of everything you do need a man for like if you rub
1:07:07
your own back can you hold yourself in your arms and
1:07:13
comfort you the way that a man can do I
1:07:19
mean you guys are awesome this came up about the Queen's code last week because there's a part in
1:07:25
the first couple chapters where Kimberly is insulted at an effort to be comforted
1:07:32
right and then even I didn't even notice this one of the participants pointed out
1:07:37
and then later in the same chapter Claudia is being comforted by Bert
1:07:43
and it had her realize that she doesn't let anybody comfort her and she really
1:07:50
would love to become burned and she'd like to ask her husband to come for her I mean geez talk about something that
1:07:57
changes the quality of your life comfort so
1:08:05
yes there are many things we can be self-sufficient at and there are so many things that we can't beat because they
1:08:12
come from another human being right I like that I'm not committed to the
1:08:19
word um self-sufficient I just like the alliteration with soft and self-sufficient but you're right what I'm trying to capture with that is this
1:08:25
idea of um of not needy right so sufficient meaning not needy but I like competent as well right because that's
1:08:33
that's true like we're not looking for women that are completely and totally self-sufficient because you know we as
1:08:38
men when we become Good Men We recognize that we're not self-sufficient either and that's a big transition for because
1:08:44
many men are in this Lone Wolf kind of mentality I have to do it all my own you
1:08:49
know no one's coming for me I gotta do it all and it's a big step for a man to get past that and recognize as you as
1:08:56
you so brilliantly said if you only take on things that you can tackle as an
1:09:01
individual you're going to live small but you have to be able to work and live
1:09:06
in teams and Community as a man because that's how you accomplish great things right and so you have to get past your
1:09:12
own desire for for Lone Wolf Independence as a man or self-sufficiency and reckon recognize that none of us are as strong as all of
1:09:20
us and that's a point that I try so hard to make to men because one of the things
1:09:25
that I experience is that there are so many men in this in the men's movement in particular that are like my version
1:09:32
of being a man is the only way to be a man and that's that's objectively not
1:09:37
true and you can even see it in like the movie The Lord of the the Lord of the Rings right Aragorn is nothing like
1:09:43
Gimli is nothing like Legolas there's nothing like Frodo is nothing like Gandalf these men are not similar but
1:09:48
you recognize them all as men recognize them all as part of a team why why are all these kinds of men
1:09:55
different kinds of band and all equally valid men but all men have to look like you Mr content creator how does that
1:10:02
work and so and so I try to encourage men to get to that point where you're
1:10:09
um it's interdependence right dependence to Independence to interdependence where
1:10:14
you recognize what your limitations as a man are and you recognize that that guy doesn't have the same limitations but he has his
1:10:21
own and the two of you together can do much more and that you tie that also into partnership is very powerful
1:10:28
because it's not something like to ask women today what do you need a man for SNAP answer nothing
1:10:35
right you know and it's like it's not without even hesitation right your your face right there shows it right it's
1:10:41
like well is that true can we dig into that notion that you need a man for nothing because I don't
1:10:47
know that and maybe you said this to me um but I certainly heard it recently it said
1:10:53
um men have never said we don't need women they're they're you know there's a small
1:10:58
segment of men out there called mgtow men going their own way that say that but it's a but it's very small and
1:11:03
that's that Community has its own problems um but like that women have developed this
1:11:09
belief that they don't need men when men have never developed like I say like without women it's pointless right what
1:11:16
are we doing just go back and get in the cave like Bert says that like men would be content of caves and campfires
1:11:23
without women and it's true right so so I appreciate you're trying to break down uh using using the queen's code
1:11:30
especially this notion that women don't need men and and getting them to ask
1:11:36
like what do you think you might actually need a man for yeah
1:11:42
a night ago on and on just on that subject and um
1:11:51
you know you've met Dan who's been in his space he he says hello by the way
1:11:58
um yeah and
1:12:04
I didn't know until I moved here a year ago how
1:12:10
small my life had become living alone in
1:12:15
that huge house yeah right in the country um
1:12:22
and I didn't I didn't realize I was shooting too
1:12:28
until until I moved here and I never thought I would leave my house in the
1:12:34
country especially if you had to move to a city even though you know
1:12:39
huge city has 16 000 people so it's almost got a stoplight
1:12:47
he has many stoplights and and I have 34 miles from the stock right down upside
1:12:53
down at 295 people right so um but I got to experience
1:13:00
that um and as you know we don't live together Dan and I
1:13:07
um but I I live in this circle of his
1:13:12
protection yes he's kind of live together but not
1:13:17
really live together yeah I know what you mean well I think living together is full of
1:13:23
Hazards and that is one of the things I didn't want to do it was on my list if I
1:13:29
was going to be in a relationship again not attached to being married or living
1:13:34
together full-time and and so having my little house on his property in and
1:13:43
you've actually stayed in this house before it was mine yeah um I'm in his circle of protection and I I call him
1:13:50
the Lord of The Manor sometimes and but it's it's palpable
1:13:56
it's it's palpable because he's right there and my encounters with
1:14:05
my encounters with Bears last year um
1:14:10
the one trying to break down the shutter to get into the kitchen because I was cooking
1:14:16
um cooking is so good it attracts bears hey is it he was a little guy but he
1:14:25
seems like you know when standing up can reach taller than I am seems really big and
1:14:32
um that is pretty big bear yeah yeah so so the you know whether it's Critters
1:14:39
and um this year it's been raccoons five raccoons so far
1:14:45
um that we've trapped by raccoons some of them timid and some of them snarling and
1:14:52
terrifying um but just who I can be because I feel safe
1:15:00
and it's one of the things that um it towards the end of our understanding
1:15:07
women course um men who watch it can sue it they can see the the and get it this early
1:15:16
um women responding to this assertion that I've made that it doesn't matter
1:15:23
our sexuality it doesn't matter our competency instinctually
1:15:32
there isn't anything including a gun because after great guy
1:15:37
great guy I went and got one got to shoot it right um
1:15:42
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual
1:15:49
vibration able to think thoughts and not others
1:15:56
the whole capacities that come from feeling truly safe nothing contributes
1:16:02
to that the same way as one man that you know is for you
1:16:08
but he's got you yes nothing and I I've asked this of thousands of women
1:16:15
you know picture how how you breathe what you think how you feel in your body
1:16:21
in the presence of a man you know is for you they're present to that okay now how
1:16:29
many women does it take to give you the same feeling and I
1:16:35
watched thousands of women thinking thinking like okay two five ten
1:16:43
under 500 until finally they all just shaking
1:16:49
their heads there's no numbers [Music]
1:16:56
and talk about interdependence right
1:17:02
um that we can contribute that to each other it doesn't have to be a romantic
1:17:07
relationship it doesn't have to be a sexual relationship it doesn't even have to be a committed relationship
1:17:14
it can it can be how you're being with me sitting next to me on a plane
1:17:20
like this this young man we were we were chatting about a bunch of stuff and then we said
1:17:26
um excuse me I have to close my eyes and take a nap now but I'll be back
1:17:33
that's cute and you leaned against the side of the plane and you closed his
1:17:39
eyes and you went to sleep and I just thought where did he find that
1:17:44
how was he woke up I asked him did you get that from to reassure me you're
1:17:50
still here you'll be back I am safe where did you get that from which led to a whole other conversation about his
1:17:57
mother his mother taught him oh my gosh um and and if you if you reverse it it's
1:18:05
the same thing I if I ever had one another career it'll be in in customer service teaching customer service to men
1:18:13
and having single Focus attention that you have on the customer in front of you if you just take a moment and say I'll
1:18:21
be with you with her right just like I'll be with
1:18:28
you next because we're standing in the line and the man has not acknowledged our presence we're gonna keep them in
1:18:34
attack he doesn't even know I'm here I'm gonna die and we get tense and then
1:18:40
by the time we get we start making [ __ ] comments and then
1:18:45
taking so long it's all out of fear it doesn't sound like fear but it's all out
1:18:50
of fear we're just one minute I see you I see you I'll be with you as soon as
1:18:57
I'm done here right it's the same effect as being able
1:19:03
to take a number and you see that that actually going by the numbers
1:19:08
at random numbers yeah yeah you wanted to say something
1:19:14
no this I mean this is very helpful
1:19:20
um because that's one of and I want to dive into
1:19:26
all of these topics and continue on our off-road Adventure but I told myself we were going to talk about the Queen's
1:19:31
good because we could talk about a thousand other things but I do want to bring it back to the to the book and the
1:19:37
audiobook and that I think um to go all the way back to my story for reading the
1:19:43
Queen's code is that I discovered keys to the kingdom and I don't know how I found it on Amazon I was overseas at
1:19:51
the time I was within 2018 maybe two late 2017 something like that and I read
1:19:57
the keys to the kingdom first because I read it was the first book so I'll read the first book in the series right and
1:20:04
um and I recognized just how true and real the
1:20:10
stages of development in a man's life are because I was on my big four-year overseas travel Adventure I was in some
1:20:17
sort of night stage I guess right like I was out slaying slaying dragons right and I was like and and that provided
1:20:24
such an incredible piece to me of of um peace p-i-e-c-e and peace p-e-a-c-e
1:20:30
right at the same time to recognize that no one had ever told me about the
1:20:36
various stages of life that I would go through as a man and I felt that I was doing something completely you know off
1:20:43
the main off the beaten path you know unusual irregular especially compared to all my friends who had settled down and
1:20:49
all that stuff but they had never really had much of a night phase and here I was trusting my own instinct to say there's
1:20:56
something unfinished in myself that I have to go do and so when I read that and recognizing excuse me and
1:21:04
recognizing that I knew intuitively that as soon as I was done doing that then I would be ready to
1:21:11
begin thinking about a wife and kids but this had to be done first right and and
1:21:16
like no one had ever given me that knowledge before but I knew it I knew it in my gut and I trusted it and I gave up
1:21:23
an entire life you know in the United States and in San Francisco and California I say I pushed all in put it
1:21:28
all on the table and said I'm going and I did it and that was my preparation for being able to have something to offer to
1:21:34
a woman later in my life and I knew that and then the keys to the kingdom you lay that out I was like I'm looking at my
1:21:41
life reflected in a mirror no yeah and there's a lot going there's a lot going on in that book
1:21:47
um but that's that's really what I took away I remember where that landed in my chest I was like oh I'm doing exactly
1:21:53
what I'm supposed to be doing hallelujah praise God for that right right
1:21:59
and so it was it was right after that like as soon as I finished keys to the kingdom I picked up the Queen's code
1:22:06
and I I'll never forget the experience of reading that book for the first time
1:22:13
on Unforgettable to see to to learn so
1:22:18
much about myself but to feel so understood to feel so completely understood by a woman uh and and to see
1:22:27
so many things like the way that you read the men in the audiobook now did you nail all of it like I'm listening to
1:22:32
you you know saying Bert and Jack and Raul and and their inflection and the
1:22:38
tone of voice and the way that the men say the things they're saying like for example when when Kimberly I don't know
1:22:44
it's kind of spoiler alert whatever so when when Kimberly says to Jack like you know I'd like for you to be my lover and
1:22:50
Jack's like no like not her I was like oh because I was
1:22:56
I was like oh I felt that in my own body when she said that like oh no right and
1:23:03
and I remember that whole experience of and Scott you know having been many of
1:23:10
those different men and so I remember when I read the book The First Time
1:23:15
that not only were the things that Claudia was teaching about men true right like she can say the things but
1:23:23
then the way that all the men Illustrated and embody the truth of them it was just incredibly powerful
1:23:30
experience that showed me a bunch of things all at once it showed me that um
1:23:35
it taught me about myself because I didn't have language to describe a lot of different aspects of myself that I
1:23:42
felt were true like the way that um the way that a a man is recharged around a
1:23:48
contented woman like I was almost in tears when I read that because I realized how rarely I had experienced it
1:23:54
and how true it was right so it showed me these things about myself it showed
1:23:59
me that men could be understood by women that we're not it's not some some dense
1:24:07
fog that's impossible to see through and that men and women can actually relearn
1:24:12
and it is relearn how to relate to each other and it was this powerfully transformative experience for me that
1:24:18
planted a seed in my mind that has taken shape over the past four years and and deeply informs what we've talked about
1:24:24
which is the great reconciliation and so now I find myself recommending the book regularly like several times
1:24:32
several times a week because it's had that much of an impact on my life as saying no we can relearn how to relate
1:24:40
to each other as men and women and and there's a way that we can start that process at minimum if not completed and
1:24:46
it's in the Queen's code which is a big thing it's a big thing to say
1:24:52
months thank you
1:25:09
um I think before we started recording and mentioned
1:25:16
um the acknowledgment of the in the book and yes my having added the part
1:25:22
specifically about the audiobook and um
1:25:31
it may sound strange but I am I feel blessed by
1:25:39
because of Greg having
1:25:44
across the bill passed died left me without taking any of his stuff
1:25:56
um could you have an interesting update for you and one of the things that I find uh
1:26:01
oh wow you have a film and for the Renaissance they've been
1:26:09
in his in his uh Porsche right um
1:26:18
because of his passing and because of Mike finally realizing I did what a
1:26:27
romantic relationship again um because for a long time I was like no I know how much work they take right it
1:26:34
takes so much work to be brilliant and I'm not going to have one that isn't brilliant so I don't know if I want to do this at all and then having that Dan
1:26:43
two years ago and encountering someone with whom it's worth it
1:26:50
right it's it's still work it's still everything I knew it would be
1:26:56
um yet the benefits are astonishing to me and and part of it is that conversation
1:27:04
we were having before great Greg was self-sufficient as an identity
1:27:13
oh interesting yes and and so
1:27:18
our partnership was limited because most of the things that I
1:27:24
offered in order to be of help in order to be useful in order to have something
1:27:31
go faster easier most of what I offered was taken as an insult
1:27:38
um yeah and so over the years I offered
1:27:43
less and less and less and less because it hurts to be interacted with that way
1:27:49
no he not no thank you no thanks for offering no this isn't it
1:27:57
no maybe another time just no and this page to it is
1:28:04
and in and I didn't know how much Dan I didn't
1:28:11
know how much Greg had had imprinted me like he he was the man that I had a
1:28:18
long-term relationship with you know almost 30 years together and even though I've been married before my first
1:28:25
husband and I spent almost retirement we were the picture of Independence
1:28:31
and so being with Ian who's a very different person in that
1:28:38
he's always played team sports right since he was four years old hockey
1:28:45
right yeah hockey's play team sports and then coached you know many many years
1:28:52
coaching hockey and and it's so distinct for him what team
1:28:59
is and we're gonna have a name for our team we were like headstrong
1:29:09
yes yes I'm strong laughs
1:29:19
but was this this thing it's really beautiful that I didn't
1:29:24
get to experience before where he he is known less by his admiration of
1:29:32
my strengths just as I am no less by my admiration
1:29:38
case yes and so you know he'll come along and
1:29:44
goes okay so what what's the engineer come up with how are we going to do this
1:29:51
it's great right you're the engineer and but then he'll tease me about being
1:29:57
um vertically challenged right
1:30:03
but then I'll tease him back we were walking down the sidewalk and there's an
1:30:08
overhanging tree and I walked right under it and he had to duck I said now who's vertically challenged
1:30:15
he remembers that one yeah
1:30:21
that's amazing yeah buddy um the things that we can do together
1:30:29
like learning to sail right last year learning to sail together hugely
1:30:35
challenging and he's amazing on the helm
1:30:40
right he's just cool as a cucumber and just awesome on the home I don't like
1:30:46
being on them but I'm a monkey right set me up for Mast
1:30:52
the under sale I'm a happy camper right I'm just like crazy like should we be
1:30:58
very agile and you know this little mountain goat on the boat and one line for yourself and one lane for the boat
1:31:05
oh wow oh so much fun right it's amazing
1:31:10
yeah and and so much fun because there's so little
1:31:17
we're just not proving to each other you know we're just not presenting each
1:31:23
other and although there's this funny thing I um
1:31:29
well it goes back to the independency but let me finish what I was saying so what I'm grateful to for the Queen's
1:31:35
code is I is I've had to relearn you know I I had to re-learn applied to a very
1:31:45
different human being what does it look like for him and just like you were talking about all
1:31:52
the characters are unique and to themselves as are all men there's no one way to be a man and yet there are these
1:32:01
intrinsic qualities that are so beautiful if you can see them and learn how to
1:32:08
work with them and if you
1:32:13
if you can't they seem like they're the reason why I can't get what I need from you
1:32:21
mm-hmm right this it seem like obstacles instead of instead of strengths and um
1:32:30
and I'm I love that you get to experience the Queen's code from the
1:32:36
intent in my in my intent of women getting to see men's motivations and how
1:32:43
beautiful they are and because of single Focus for example the effects of
1:32:49
testosterone on the brain things have to be worked with in a certain way or you can't get to the beauty
1:32:55
and the same is true for women right if women have such beauty but if
1:33:02
men don't know how much our safety depends on feeling connected and every time you focus on something else we feel
1:33:09
disconnected and lost and then we get afraid and we do all kinds of
1:33:15
ugly things um like be critical you know the first time
1:33:22
I was critical of damn it I was trying not to be but I was really afraid and we
1:33:27
just met yeah and he's like uh
1:33:33
felt like criticism and I stopped taking that a long time ago yeah like you told me that story that was fun
1:33:41
um yeah and then I burst into tears that I criticized him be Allison Armstrong
1:33:47
and just criticized a man and and then I just I was afraid I just confessed I was
1:33:54
afraid right and then he was tapping his steering wheel because he was driving he was having and she sounds like that
1:34:00
she's cute and she sounds like that she's scared she sounds like what she's doing he was memorizing he was learning
1:34:08
me because okay so how about if that happens again I'll remember that you're
1:34:15
scared and and then I'll ask what's scaring you
1:34:21
how about that that sounds good first deal right we're
1:34:26
gonna first deal just a few hours into this relationship and then I said well
1:34:32
yeah but as quick as I can already tell you or you will probably already figure out figured out the things that scare me
1:34:41
but if you want to ask that's fine and then I thought a second I said but how about I just come right out and say I'm
1:34:48
scared oh that's good right yeah
1:34:55
and then and it has been a passenger in a car right it's scary to be a passenger in a car
1:35:02
and in Colorado
1:35:07
yeah but it was great because a few months later I was trying to figure out how to ask him to not follow the car in
1:35:15
front of us so closely even though it'd be a normal place to follow in City driving and they're not
1:35:21
used to City driving and have a thing about tailgating and I was trying to figure out a nice way to ask that and
1:35:27
then I remembered and I said it's scaring me that you're so close to that car
1:35:33
let me just amazing so simple so simple right just
1:35:40
stick with the truth but we're trying to you know it's a definition of strategy
1:35:46
um to move yourself into the best possible position before engaging with
1:35:51
the Enemy oh yeah
1:35:56
right and that's how we are with each other we're trying to move ourselves into a position where we don't reveal
1:36:02
any weaknesses where we don't reveal any dependency where we don't feel anything
1:36:08
that we need which equals a weak a weakness right and so much of the Queen's code is
1:36:15
is just showing that none of these are weaknesses they're they're just part of
1:36:21
being human and how we reveal them to each other makes all the difference in how the other person can respond like in
1:36:28
that scene that you spoiler alerted you know Jack's reaction and then
1:36:34
got out of his reaction long enough to look over at Kimberly
1:36:40
Kimberly was being yes which is so much a part of the message that is not
1:36:48
stating it's how we're being with each other is so much more important than how
1:36:54
we put this right yes women are always asking me how do I say it and the Queen's code was
1:37:02
about I knew I could teach women how to speak the language of humans but if the
1:37:08
being the beingness of the woman isn't congruent
1:37:13
if she hasn't transformed her relationship to being provided for her relationship
1:37:20
to help to accomplish something bigger than herself her relationship to saving
1:37:27
her relationship like if she is a transformed her relationship to that even having the words it's not going to
1:37:34
work because it's people who were beating is louder than everything
1:37:43
it's I mean that's that's what's behind The Vow
1:37:48
right the the you know I vow to give up the right to castrate men forever it's that if you take on the teachings of the
1:37:56
Queen's code you can put them into your head you know and you can express them from your mouth but if the person who's doing
1:38:03
that if the woman who's doing that hasn't had a true change of heart like a
1:38:09
real trans a real commitment to transform her way of being two men
1:38:15
right then it's just going to create destruction and you illustrate that so
1:38:21
clearly through the through the Melissa scene with Scott it's crushing it's it's
1:38:26
crushing like to feel I I think you know I think um
1:38:32
I think Scott's reaction in that scene is is probably mild compared to what
1:38:37
would happen to a lot of men right like he's he clearly loves her a lot to
1:38:43
respond in that way versus just to walk out the door for example he's like okay right and and this is again that's the
1:38:52
power that's the power of the book and that that my experience as a man reading it
1:38:57
and to to learn the hero's language was obviously not going to give away um
1:39:03
and to to know intuitively in my own minds and in my own heart in my own body that yes those are the words
1:39:10
like those are the words that that that activate me and call me to attention and can truly bring out the best in me and
1:39:19
can also be used against me because I want to give my strength away as a man I've worked hard to cultivate
1:39:25
my strength as a man it's a it's a multi-decades-long project for a man to
1:39:30
get to a point in his life where he truly has the ability to offer himself like I offer myself to you partner or
1:39:38
you friend or who or whoever right and and here are the keys particularly like a wife right
1:39:44
you know fiance wife here are the keys to how to bring forth the best in me and
1:39:49
that those same keys can be used to absolutely bring out the worst right or or to destroy
1:39:57
you have to have a train a change of heart as a woman and how you in terms of how you relate to men in order to take
1:40:04
responsibility for those and then you really get to see men shine but it costs you something as a woman
1:40:11
you can't get it for free and that's that's the power of that vow it's like how how bad do you want that
1:40:18
you know how much how much of yourself are you willing to give to get something from a man that you could never give
1:40:25
yourself and that's where the transformation comes in that that commitment and it's
1:40:30
so inspiring to me to know that there are so many women that are willing to make that commitment
1:40:35
because you know the dialogues almost seems to be women who would never be willing to make that commitment but I
1:40:40
know for a fact millions of women they're like you know we're over we're over this independent self-sufficient thing
1:40:47
those guys over there you know they do things differently over there maybe we have something to learn from them and
1:40:52
and maybe they have something to learn from us let's give that a shot foreign
1:41:08
you said there's so many things that it sparked in me um
1:41:19
further along in the book which you referred to or Bert is trying to unwind
1:41:25
what's happening to Claudia and her help yeah he was really worried about her and
1:41:30
then he finally pinpoints it and and it's
1:41:36
it's the first time that this concept of accountability shows up
1:41:41
and it's so important and it's um
1:41:46
it's one of the most underestimated contexts
1:41:52
and um and one of the ways that women
1:41:59
unconsciously reduce men um I interacted with an organization and
1:42:05
that their job is transformation that's the business is transformation and the
1:42:11
founder um the founder died and his wife took over and when I went to be a speaker
1:42:18
there I was so saddened because I watched this
1:42:24
crew of women who were all in the leadership positions interacting with
1:42:31
men as helpers
1:42:37
yeah and and they didn't even know they didn't even know how much they were
1:42:42
emasculating these amazing men around them who if they just released the
1:42:48
accountability to that expertise instead of
1:42:53
managing and micromanaging everything like these were these guys are really
1:42:59
good helpers but they love very much they're like good dogs
1:43:05
do you know right yeah and
1:43:11
um in a course that we haven't gotten to have since the beginning of covet covered the answer partnership
1:43:16
accountability is the is if it's the first Topic in the context of
1:43:21
partnership and and I make fun of us that accountability
1:43:28
has become um there's a lot of status associated
1:43:34
with accountability and that the more that you're quote in charge of the more important you are and
1:43:42
that one of the things that's wearing women out is we will make ourselves accountable for anything and everything
1:43:50
and we don't stop and think is this my part
1:43:56
and and we're just we're just merely we don't even want to we just really
1:44:02
really willing to be accountable because you're afraid of what will happen if we're not we don't know that maybe two
1:44:08
steps behind us or someone for whom that would be privileged to the accountant
1:44:13
and it's one of the things that women don't know about men that that language
1:44:19
would do me that honor of being my wife would you do me the honor of marrying me
1:44:25
that he's asking to be accountable for taking care of her in certain ways
1:44:33
and and Melissa interacting with Scott and
1:44:39
the Queen's code she has no idea where she holds himself accountable for
1:44:46
um with his children with her with all the
1:44:52
people that worked for the mentors to be successful in their own careers like it's he is a huge capacity
1:44:59
and all she sees is he doesn't take out the damn trash yes
1:45:06
yeah and it um I asked the first time I led the dancer partnership and we were talking
1:45:13
about I call them accountability
1:45:20
okay [Laughter]
1:45:26
and and I just have this way of putting things Allison it's so good
1:45:31
I try to make things memorable right you succeed [ __ ] hours pumpkin hours
1:45:36
right yes dessert dessert pumpkin hours all that it's like yeah
1:45:43
um maybe that's my contribution to the
1:45:50
Queen's code to the movie um I think there's more than that so I
1:45:55
so I asked I'd say I'm receptive and obedient that those are my star qualities
1:46:03
um to all the things that are wanting to get through um but if I asked this group as the men in
1:46:11
the group like to what's it like for you for women to keep taking all the
1:46:18
accountabilities and leaving nothing for you at most at most they want your help
1:46:24
but they'll never ask you to be accountable or entrust you with accountability and
1:46:31
um this one man stood up he was probably in his 50s and he said
1:46:36
it's like training for something your entire life and then not be allowed to do
1:46:43
um that's right yeah it's what you said earlier right like this
1:46:51
um how you've known yourself to be all your entire life but no one calls you right
1:46:57
you've developed your strength that's so much what being a knight is about is actually
1:47:04
um developing and testing developing and testing developing and testing how good
1:47:09
am I I want to be good at that now how good am I yeah how good am I now how come right and it's it's awesome right
1:47:17
and then they have to put yourself to the test of all these things then being a prince you could say is okay now now
1:47:24
how am I going to use this to build something yes all these things that I've had
1:47:29
created in myself so yes accountability I imagine
1:47:36
accountability is going to show up in the third book it's about doing just arrived at near
1:47:44
the end of the Queen's private and it's it's huge it's huge
1:47:51
um one of the things you said is that the power and possibilities
1:47:58
of a partnership a determined by what each of the partners are being
1:48:04
accountable for being this women's
1:48:11
say that one more time just to make sure yeah that's yeah so I I like what
1:48:18
they're being accountable for say say that all again if if you don't mind the power and possibilities of a partnership
1:48:25
are determined by what each of the partners are being accountable
1:48:31
for being listening and speaking yes okay yes yeah including being
1:48:40
accountable for letting another person be accountable [Laughter]
1:48:45
yes to let you do your part to entrust you
1:48:52
to do the support you do in your part and it's your part this is this is massive
1:48:58
because I I don't want to one of the things that I run into writing about man
1:49:03
is I don't want to oversell men because I believe in the best of men but a lot of men really need to learn
1:49:09
accountability like that's a lesson that a lot of men and that's part of what the Renaissance of men is about that's part of what the men's movement about is
1:49:15
about generally is no man you like individual man you need to begin being
1:49:20
accountable for even more things than you're already accountable for the small the the very small life that you're
1:49:26
accountable for you can be much more accountable and take it and you can bear that weight of it and so I think that
1:49:33
there's been a week and I know that there's been a weakening of going going on of men that has forced women to take
1:49:38
on accountability in response and and I would I would say this is these are the result of societal forces that you and I
1:49:45
could spend a lot of time unpacking like I don't think it's all personal I think we're caught up in some some historical
1:49:50
flows that we're kind of fighting against the street well let's we'll just we'll got the thinking the thinking cap
1:49:56
on what can I say one thing about it because it's interesting yes yes you can what's that
1:50:02
integral to what the Queen's code is about because as women disempower men
1:50:11
yes we weaken you yes and then we we feel the weakness in
1:50:19
you yes and part of feeling that weakness makes us feel safer now you can't hurt
1:50:25
me yes but the other part of that weakness
1:50:30
has us take over yes
1:50:36
again to make us ourselves feel safe it's all about feeling safe so we disempower you to feel safe but then
1:50:42
because we've disempowered you we have to fill in and take over to have ourselves feel safe which the stepping
1:50:50
in and taking over also is a massive mm-hmm it makes it worse withholding
1:50:55
accountability is one of the biggest ways that women emasculate men or that any men are masquerade each other
1:51:02
right or even themselves so so this thing this spiraled down
1:51:10
right and in our work on partnership I start with accountability and we start
1:51:17
with the first person to become a partner of is yourself
1:51:23
and huge yeah and where I start with with accountability which is one of the
1:51:30
what I call a 14 extraordinary choices also known as 14 elements in Partnership
1:51:37
is actually starting with getting clear about what you're unwilling to be held
1:51:44
to account for
1:51:49
amazing 14 things that all have to happen simultaneously we talked we touched on
1:51:55
this in our last conversation yes yes okay and they're each Radioactive
1:52:00
but but here's the thing that related to the Queen's code that I would be thrilled for men to do
1:52:10
because what happens is women are trying to hold men to account
1:52:15
for acting like women the perfect person the perfect woman
1:52:22
and I'm terrible being that you're terrible peanut but this is what happens we're trying to hold you to account for
1:52:29
acting like a woman and you refuse to be held to account for acting like a woman which has women
1:52:35
think you refuse to be accountable for anything
1:52:42
yes it's too subtle it's too subtle women don't get it when a woman when a
1:52:47
man's like no you can't count on me for that well then I can't count on you for anything
1:52:53
instead of quit trying to count on me to act like a woman and you'll find out
1:52:59
what you can count on which the Queen's code is about what women can count on men four especially
1:53:09
when we stop trying to hold you to account for what you can't be counted on for yes which is doing what a woman would do
1:53:17
yes yeah but as long as we're down your throat about you're supposed to see what
1:53:23
I see and do what I would do and do it perfectly we can't ever see how much men
1:53:29
love to be count onable and for the things that men are count onable as for men
1:53:37
as a man or even individually like yes like when
1:53:43
so Greg would do this thing where he would figure out how far I was gonna go
1:53:48
and then he would make sure my car had enough gas to get there and back so he monitored my gas
1:53:56
tank imagine 20 years of this
1:54:02
sure okay and at one point I asked him I said I love that I don't ever have to
1:54:07
worry about gas but I don't ever have to put gas in my tank how would you like me to appreciate you for that
1:54:15
and his response took my breath away he said if you took that for granted it would
1:54:23
tell me that you know who I am [Music]
1:54:31
it opened up this whole other area of there are things appreciate about people
1:54:39
and it's actually insulting the way that we appreciate it oh you're such a wonderful man
1:54:45
no I'm a man yes
1:54:50
don't you get that like there's there's this insult that in what we won't take
1:54:57
for granted what we won't count on you for now do I think we don't need to appreciate things no I got a whole thing
1:55:04
on that appreciation's so important but someone's currency of appreciation matters and there are things that where
1:55:14
we're insulted and I've experienced it myself like that you think you can't count on me for that and make such a big
1:55:19
deal out of it is insulting to me yes
1:55:25
yes I can do much more than just that yes and so that sort of thinks for men to
1:55:32
own is this is what you can count on me for and if you just tell them you find
1:55:38
it then I'll know you know who I am and that's respect
1:55:44
it would be extra on top of what you can tell and this is the minimum this is how to
1:55:51
appreciate you for it mm-hmm right and then as one man said don't ask me for
1:55:58
what I can't provide yeah ask me for what I can provide and I'll give you all I've got
1:56:04
so women keep asking men to provide being a woman like Jack starts out in
1:56:10
the very first chapter women these days to be a man and a woman to be their
1:56:18
boyfriend and their girlfriend how come they don't how it doesn't work that way
1:56:23
and Men try that that's the thing though is that I'm glad that you mentioned that because some men do accept
1:56:28
accountability for being like a woman and it weakens it weakens men they try like me I tried that for many years and
1:56:36
women don't actually like it right that's the thing it's like okay I'll give you the thing that you that you want and you hate us and so I can't I
1:56:43
can't win right it's really tough and I do want to I want to I want to stay on that for just a second because there's
1:56:49
well there's a tendency in a lot of men in the men's movement to look at guys who act like that and and judge them
1:56:55
very harshly and there's a there's a lot of that and there's a lot of the ways that men can be cruel and judgmental to
1:57:01
each other right but I like the way that you frame it it's that these men are being accountable for the things that
1:57:07
the women in their lives are holding them accountable for and so they're actually being accountable but in this
1:57:13
inverse upside down kind of way it's not that they're unaccountable they're doing the best they can with the source that
1:57:19
they feel is authoritative right unfortunately which needs to change that's a whole thing but they're they're
1:57:25
they're actually being accountable now there are some men that are not being accountable for anything and that's a separate conversation but there are a
1:57:32
lot of men out there that are trying to be the safe you know nice you know
1:57:37
girlfriend kind of boyfriend like they're trying to do that because they think it's right and they're being
1:57:42
accountable for it it just doesn't work and and to be able to see that to make
1:57:47
that discernment and say this man is actually trying the thing and he's succeeding he's succeeding at the wrong
1:57:53
thing but he's trying right and and to ease up on some of those guys and to be
1:57:58
able to see them more clearly oh boy you just said so much
1:58:05
[Laughter]
1:58:15
sorry there's like 10 similar wrestlers trying to get to the door at the same time
1:58:21
that's how I describe my brains all little kids trying to get off the bus at the same time that's so funny that's
1:58:27
really funny so okay so I'm I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
1:58:34
start with this part um there's a man his name is Curtis who
1:58:40
volunteered um and got trained to teach her material and he volunteered in the understanding
1:58:46
women course um I think 13 times was the last time that I knew wow and yeah and
1:58:55
I noticed in the last few times that I was around him that
1:59:00
she had changed in not a good way and that my sense of him was that he was a
1:59:09
volcano about to explode and
1:59:14
I had the kind of relationship with him that I could talk to him about it and Curtis what is this
1:59:21
and what it and it changed how I led that course because what he said was
1:59:28
well after being at this course and finding out how much safety matters to Bringing
1:59:34
out the best in women I have taken on accountability for making women feel
1:59:41
safe yep yep and and I could see I mean it was just like
1:59:49
right that him taking on accountability for making women feel safe he was
1:59:55
literally suppressing his own self-expression yes he wasn't telling
2:00:01
his truth he wasn't being his truth yes and that's
2:00:06
that was this volcano that was building them and and I got it and I for anyone if you did
2:00:15
understand a woman online course which is 11 hours of life changing
2:00:20
you'll see that I never say that anymore and I even mourn the men do not take on
2:00:26
making a woman feel safe I know it hurts you how scared we are I know you never
2:00:32
want us to be scared but don't make yourself accountable for making women
2:00:37
feel safe because you can't make women feel safe at the most you can help a woman to feel
2:00:45
safe But ultimately it's up to her to choose
2:00:51
because of an instinctual standpoint there's never safe enough just like as a as a man you've never
2:00:57
produced too much there's no Instinct that kicks in okay I've produced enough no get out there and hunt again and
2:01:03
again and again right and for us we're never safe enough we have to consciously
2:01:09
override our own instincts and decide I'm safe enough and men can help us to feel safe but you
2:01:17
can't make us feel safe and when finding out all the whackadoodle behaviors that
2:01:22
come from women not feeling safe it has you want to be able to make us feel safe
2:01:28
is that because you love the beauty of women and anything you can do to get it including you know just listen and
2:01:36
respond like a girlfriend would instead of saying that's a crock of [ __ ] you have a nail in your forehead
2:01:43
yes he is about the nail darling yes so it's
2:01:52
it's under used us to be into what's going to be attractive to me what's going to be
2:01:59
necessary to me is if you act like this but unfortunately the decision to do
2:02:06
that and then a man is suppressing his own truth which is the source of your strength
2:02:11
that's perceived by a woman as a weakness and you'll be our best friend but we never want to have sex with you
2:02:17
yes yes yes yes yes in order to respond
2:02:23
sexually to the perception of strength and a man standing up for himself
2:02:30
and if you can stand up for yourself early and maybe quiet more quietly so it
2:02:37
doesn't scare the crap out of us then we can just perceive the strength in it and think you're so hot instead of betrayed
2:02:45
betray betrayed the trade betray yourself and then the volcano experience and then and and that is so threatening
2:02:52
right you're gonna get a fight fight or freeze response which are mastery
2:02:59
and the investigation comes in every one of those responses so the being true to yourself from the
2:03:06
very beginning it goes back to this okay so if I was being true to myself what
2:03:12
would I be count on a book for and what would I allow other people to
2:03:18
hold me to account for in fact if they did hold me to account that would tell me they knew know who I am it would be
2:03:25
respect to hold me to account for that because I am choosing to be a coming
2:03:31
and telling that truth including and these are the things you can't count on
2:03:38
even if you think a better man would be count on a before it it's not true for you
2:03:48
I'm I'm I mean I hope all the guys are listening right this is not the message that's delivered to many men or that
2:03:54
many men receive right many men receive the message right fully or wrong and I
2:04:00
think it's objectively true that you should receive this message that you are responsible men and I think this is this is out there in culture you as men are
2:04:07
dangerous and you are responsible for making women feel safe and in order to
2:04:13
do that you have to declaw and defang yourself and remove remove any notion of
2:04:19
your strength at all and as soon as you do that women will feel safe and then they will want you
2:04:25
right and I can't I can't tell you how hard I did that I can't tell you the
2:04:31
number of times I had women say will you're a beautiful man and then completely and then completely
2:04:36
ignore me right like I did I'm doing all the things and it's not it's not getting
2:04:42
it's not getting the response that I was told I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a man and it's not getting the
2:04:48
response that I was told I was gonna get yes right and I'm very I'm very fortunate that I came for myself right
2:04:55
and I had that I had the opportunity to meet men who sent me another Direction who sent me in the direction of things
2:05:01
that I had essentially shamed out of my own existence and one of the books that really does that for men um is the book
2:05:08
No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Dr Robert Glover have you heard of this book
2:05:14
yes but I haven't read it it's I mean the the entire Dynamic that you're
2:05:19
talking about with this guy being a volcano Curtis like that's that's what that's the exact same image that Dr
2:05:25
Robert Glover uses where it's like men they suppress they suppress what's true
2:05:30
for them and and they become very nice right and they present in this very nice way very non-threatening but the truth
2:05:37
of who they are gets suppressed and suppressed and then explodes and comes out sideways and Jordan Peterson talks
2:05:44
about this as well there's nothing more dangerous than a nice guy because you don't actually know who he is and then
2:05:50
I'm talking I'm talking to friends other women in my life that are saying they that are getting around nice guys and
2:05:55
how anxious these nice guys make them feel right like I don't know where this guy is at it's like but this is the
2:06:02
message that so many men receive is that you have to be nice you have to be nice nice but what they don't say which is
2:06:08
what you just said that there's no amount of that you can ever truly make a
2:06:14
woman feel safe that she has to be be responsible for her own feelings of
2:06:19
safety and her own innate anxiety like whatever to whatever grief she has that she needs to be in control of that and
2:06:26
it's not your responsibility man to cut to defang declaw and castrate yourself so that she feels safe because you can
2:06:32
never disempower yourself enough to make her feel safe and you'll actually end up doing the opposite
2:06:37
that's that's some stuff right there yeah that's some stuff right there
2:06:45
is also how you said that that you can't ever do enough of it
2:06:51
um can ever go in the wrong direction for too long and unfortunately
2:06:59
hey this this here before right with what you
2:07:05
call the great reconciliation um and what I discovered and what shows
2:07:10
up in the third chapter in the Queen's code that when I was asked to stop castrating men
2:07:18
my first response was for them how I protect myself that's right and then as I felt into
2:07:27
what Ellen Hurst was asking me I saw that I would never
2:07:34
know like intimately I would never know my own power as a woman
2:07:40
as long as I was still in power from that that my ability to take men's power was
2:07:47
not the same as having power and that until I stopped
2:07:54
stealing power from men I wouldn't I wouldn't truly know my own
2:08:00
and it's interesting because when when we get to it
2:08:06
as many differences as there are between many women and I can catalog the
2:08:12
encyclopedias there's a few wonderful just if you the sameness
2:08:18
this sameness is the truth of that true the admiration and respect and
2:08:28
even really liking another human being begins with us
2:08:34
each men and women men or women that we treat ourselves in no way that causes us
2:08:42
to experience respect and admiration and writing ourselves
2:08:47
yes that when we hold ourselves to what we've decided to become our level for
2:08:54
then we interact with other people
2:08:59
with looking for was seeking what can we count on them for and respecting them for that right and liking them for who
2:09:08
they are and admiring them for the ways that are treated themselves but instead we're until we're interacting in that
2:09:15
whole domain we're never going to have the connections that we're looking for
2:09:20
and it
2:09:29
there's something that I want to give to your people
2:09:34
okay um so we'll we'll figure out how to give it
2:09:40
the how of giving it to your people okay
2:09:45
um it's a a webinar that I recorded summer of 21 when I lived here
2:09:55
I've lived here for about eight or nine months and it kept trying
2:10:01
to adapt to something I needed I kept trying to not need it
2:10:06
and as I kept trying to not need it my version of being nice
2:10:12
right I was being nice about something and then I would be the volcano that
2:10:17
erupted about every six weeks because I really needed something to change and I
2:10:24
was trying to get over it and it was something I presented to Dan before I ever met him
2:10:31
I stated this mood and then I was incongruent with it
2:10:37
and as a result of it I produced something called own your ultimate again
2:10:43
I remember you talking about this yes yes and the subtitle is a grown-up conversation with Alison Armstrong about
2:10:51
what you can't live with and can't live in fact and it's it's not long it's not a long
2:10:59
program but it it's it's one I think it's one of the most important that I've
2:11:04
ever done because it has us come to term with ultimatums which ultimatums are
2:11:11
considered a bad word right that sounds like a note to me you're giving me note to me and what it
2:11:18
unwinds is the problem is not whittled to meetings and that ultimatum means your final
2:11:24
offer the problem is
2:11:29
people first of all not being clear about their ultimators and secondly that
2:11:35
when we present our ultimatums to another person
2:11:40
is when we sense that they are attached enough to being
2:11:46
with us to clean it's a weapon
2:11:52
yeah we don't reveal what we need to be
2:11:58
all in this to stay in whatever it is whether it's as an employee an employer
2:12:03
romantic as a parent providing for a child we don't reveal the ultimatum
2:12:09
until we sense the other person will submit to it because of how much they
2:12:15
love us how much they need us how much they value the work that we do that then
2:12:22
they'll find who changed our ultimatum and that's why it pisses people off because of what a manipulation means
2:12:30
coercive instead of leading with them
2:12:36
I have a student in our smart singles intensive who came to Pride himself on
2:12:43
being the most quickly unliked man in online dating
2:12:49
that's the dubious thing to be proud of he was so proud of himself because he was being so true to himself and putting
2:12:58
up right what he was looking for up front what he required and not budging
2:13:05
no matter how attractive he found the woman to be and meanwhile he was also learning to
2:13:11
understand women and how to help them feel safe while being true to himself
2:13:16
and he and he really prided himself on how quickly he got unlike meaning he didn't have to go sorry I mean he didn't
2:13:23
have to go to any trouble to interact with people who ultimately couldn't give him what he needed who oh
2:13:31
I see to account for what he wanted to be held account for and what he was unwilling to be held account for go away
2:13:37
if you're going to try to hold me to come for that I'm not that man got it unliked not disliked
2:13:43
okay like him and then start to interact and then disagree disappear yes and and
2:13:49
he loved it it was his 100 % true to himself but in every
2:13:54
single interaction tune himself to himself to himself which is what Schwartz singles is about on yourself
2:14:00
first or always lost and and so leading
2:14:05
with your ultimatum the owner ultimatums it's the beginning of that it's the
2:14:10
beginning of yes you may be rejected but get rejected when you care more about
2:14:17
liking yourself than being liked by somebody else when you care more about respecting
2:14:23
yourself then being respected by somebody else in other words when you're more loyal to your own requirements
2:14:31
wouldn't care the least about what they think about what you need instead of saving it for when you care the most
2:14:37
yes that's I mean this is this flies in the
2:14:43
face of what a lot of men are taught which is they're not taught that you as a man are allowed to have standards
2:14:49
right like that's that is a controversial idea there's nothing that causes more friction in a lot of online
2:14:55
circles than a man saying these are my standards he's like no you just have to you just have to accept me as I am if
2:15:02
you love me you have to accept me as I am right and and there's a degree in which you're delivering the ultimatum that's the coercive element right where
2:15:08
that shows up later versus if a man or woman can go through the exercise up
2:15:14
front and I think that's at least half of the power of it is to know what they are for yourself even before you meet
2:15:21
somebody like you're walking around carrying this knowledge inside yourself of what your ultimatums are like How
2:15:27
Deeply How Deeply empowering relationally me and my people gladly won't receive that gift
2:15:34
no yeah and then and then the challenge is is to keep being congruent
2:15:41
I I presented my ultimatums early and then I was in congruent I'm trying
2:15:49
to be nice and get over one so I was sending these mixed messages
2:15:55
that I would blow up about this every once in a while but in between I was incongruent
2:16:02
you know the ultimatum was a healthy diet and lifestyle yeah I remember you telling me yeah right and I'd watch him
2:16:08
put crap in his mouth feel terrible look terrible have low
2:16:13
energy right but I wouldn't say it when he was doing it I would just get upset about it every
2:16:19
once in a while ago and I told you this before overnight I require being with someone who has a
2:16:25
healthy diet and lifestyle but then in between I be inconsistent yeah
2:16:31
a disservice right being nice is a disservice being kind
2:16:38
being kind congruency is kind truth is kind yes
2:16:46
it's vital and that's a distinction that a lot of men are beginning to learn is that the opposite of nice isn't mean if
2:16:53
you stop being a nice guy you don't become a mean guy because a lot of men you know they they worry this is the
2:16:59
metaphor that I give the men that I work with because I run into this problem often a lot of guys worry that if they
2:17:06
were they pull the sword from the stone right they've sacrificed their own their own power then they pull the store they
2:17:13
ask themselves not in these words but if I pull the sword from the stone who will I become will I become a tyrant
2:17:20
right that's their worry because they've seen powerful embodied men before B
2:17:26
tyrants either from childhood and maybe not even like major league tyrants but they've experienced a strong embodied
2:17:32
man say crossing a boundary even even accidentally and like I don't want to be that and so to point to paint the
2:17:40
picture for them first of all that that you're even worried about that is proof
2:17:46
that you won't become that because you are the conscientious man who can pull that sword from the stone but the
2:17:52
ability to paint the difference in language between niceness and kindness
2:17:58
really helps crystallize it like you won't you'll stop being a nice guy but
2:18:03
you won't you you will become a kind man right which is which is a far better
2:18:09
posture of strength and being but you have to you have to risk something to do that you have to risk actually having
2:18:16
the sword in your hand and you have to be the kind of conscientious man the now
2:18:21
doesn't keep your power locked away but that keeps it in check and knows where to use it productively it's a whole
2:18:28
greater degree of self-responsibility and and when I when I paint that metaphor for them they get it it doesn't
2:18:35
mean they stop being afraid but they still they still get it because they're taught that the difference between
2:18:40
kindness the opposite of kindness is meanness and that's absolutely not the case but no one's ever painted the
2:18:46
picture for who they'll be as a fully embodied man that you don't lose the best parts of yourself when you take
2:18:52
your power on you enhance them and bring them to reality into manifestation
2:19:00
yay yay I want to be I want to be sensitive to
2:19:06
your time but I have I have three questions that um okay so um and we and I'll tell you
2:19:13
what they are up front I got a couple questions from women that wanted to ask you um about uh the case the kingdom and
2:19:21
then I have I have a question about these 14 different things because it came up in the last conversation and I
2:19:26
think that you've you've teased apart the pieces of the great reconciliation and I wanted to bring it up last time
2:19:32
but I I didn't get like it was one of those things like I watched it go away in the conversation like no come back so I want to get to that but the first the
2:19:39
first question that I got from one of my listeners is in the keys to the kingdom you lay out
2:19:44
the stages of a man's development where a man doesn't feel able uh to provide
2:19:50
for a family and that the woman has to be patient while the man gets to the point where he can become a provider
2:19:55
that he has to feel comfortable within himself and what this listener asked is what if there's a biological component
2:20:01
that's a that's an urgent need like physiologically for her and he doesn't feel like he's there yet how can she
2:20:09
communicate with him or or what's the dialogue that goes in there it's like hey I know that you feel like you're two
2:20:14
years away it it'll be it'll be significantly different for me two years from now like
2:20:20
how did how does she have that conversation what should she say how does that take place
2:20:27
well there's a lot of inquiring to do and it goes back to our conversation about
2:20:34
self-sufficiency because a man being ready for something
2:20:42
he's interacting with his own self-sufficiency can I handle this can I deliver this can
2:20:50
I be all that I need to do there are things that become possible in
2:20:55
Partnership that are Unthinkable and self-sufficiency can I raise a child
2:21:03
no I'm not ready to raise a child okay but are my wife and I ready to
2:21:08
raise a child do we have sufficient communication
2:21:13
skills are we aligned have we had all the conversations about how we would do that like
2:21:20
do I have can I have confidence in us I may not have complete confidence in
2:21:27
myself but I have confidence in US I know she brings out the best of me and
2:21:32
I'd surprise him to the attention and I know she has a limited reproductive lifestyle life cycle
2:21:39
so there's some give and take with medication okay honey there's this one thing I gotta do in the business before I know
2:21:47
I'll have enough bandwidth to be your partner and parenting a child and I want to be your partner I want you to be left
2:21:53
raising your children because I didn't have enough bandwidth to
2:21:59
I gotta get this one thing done which then her question can be so how can I
2:22:04
support you instead of that's stupid right you validate please don't say that indeed
2:22:11
that end of conversation right so there's things that are possible um and then I've interacted with a lot
2:22:18
of women because wanting to be a biological parent is a very strong
2:22:23
Instinct and it it is endangered much earlier in women's chronological lives
2:22:31
than women know into why women start getting wound up at about age 29 because that's when the
2:22:39
body is recognizing the lower levels of estrogen and testosterone which are
2:22:45
provided by that ovum um and they're disappearing right and so
2:22:51
those lower levels are registered as this is an emergency biological need and
2:22:57
we talk about that in understanding women and there are things that can be done if
2:23:02
if there's truly a joint desire and truly a conflict for example to harvest and
2:23:10
fertilize aims but implant them two years later
2:23:15
there are things that can be done but it's something this goes back to that
2:23:20
ultimatums thing we need to have the when of having children conversation
2:23:27
way before way before 30. yeah wait way
2:23:32
way before way before even getting married do you know it's it's something I'm
2:23:37
proud of my son for by the way he two years ago he said I'll be ready to have children in 10 years
2:23:46
he'll be he'll be 42 when he's ready to have children and he's very methodical and thinking about these are the moves I
2:23:53
need to make now in order to be ready to do that when I want to do and and so men have so many plans we
2:24:00
don't even know about that we have to be very safe to find out about um yes oh yeah yeah so I would say how
2:24:08
to have that conversation was it with with a heck of a lot of respect and be very clear what Perkins where her bones
2:24:17
are and have them backed up by facts not just feelings
2:24:23
go to the doctor ultrasound like ovaries what's my biological life here right
2:24:30
yeah I was so happy when I found out I had plumpers
2:24:36
more than I was supposed to have at 42 years old um so
2:24:42
that would be my answer to that question what's your next question
2:24:47
well just to just a tag on my response to the man in that situation if I could
2:24:53
speak to him would be there is a component of wait until you're ready but
2:24:58
men also can fall into a trap of never feeling ready for anything family whatever like I'm not ready I'm not
2:25:04
ready it's like there is a component of no you throw yourself off the cliff and you figure it out on the way down and
2:25:10
making a commitment to a wife and a family has the way of Turbo charging men's focus and productivity because now
2:25:17
I think a switch gets flipped in a man's Minds like now I am responsible and I've made the commitment to be responsible
2:25:23
for something and someone Beyond myself and that only in that leap can you find
2:25:29
the strength to do that so if you're waiting for some external or even internal thing to change and then I'll
2:25:34
be ready no like the actual doing of it creates the Readiness so that's that's
2:25:39
one of the teachings that's going around for men so women have a there's a dialogue dialogue component where it's
2:25:44
like well honey what do you actually need to feel ready and to have him say make it Concrete in a specific thing how
2:25:51
can I help you achieve that and then there's there that triggers a little accountability switch like oh wow okay
2:25:56
that create and that creates you know something tangible to work with and so that's a that's a you know rather
2:26:02
than a woman strategizing well how do I how do I approach how do I confront the enemy about this it's like no you can just say and for for the man to have
2:26:09
faith in the strength of the partnership and the strength of a self and himself and his brothers I think is powerful as
2:26:16
well yes well and what you're touching on is is also one of the obvious
2:26:22
answers what normally happens between men and women
2:26:28
it will seem like the man has to count on himself because because he's not
2:26:34
winning as a husband how is he going to win as a father with the same person
2:26:39
oh good point yes huge huge risk right he's already taken
2:26:46
on providing for her and he's not winging at it mostly because she won't let him mm-hmm
2:26:52
It all becomes internal and um my son's father actually said to me
2:27:00
once that he thought that it was a good thing I'd gotten pregnant because he thought he would never have been raped
2:27:09
okay got it yes yeah yeah and when we got divorced it was when he
2:27:15
actually dedicated himself to fatherhood
2:27:24
um what was your next ingredient next question um
2:27:30
I have been following your work from the beginning of my 10-year marriage your teachings I believe are why I'm still
2:27:36
married I also use the principles with my son I always boost him up with appreciation and I do my best to not
2:27:42
interrupt him when he talks although this one is hard for me what other tools do you recommend while raising a 10 year
2:27:48
old son um
2:27:55
it goes back to our conversation will about accountability or count on ability
2:28:02
and one of the things that we paid attention to is how someone relates to an
2:28:08
accountability has everything to do with how to interact with it so it's like a scale like unwilling to
2:28:17
be accountable we try to hold people accountable who are unwilling to be accountable that's the lowest level of
2:28:24
Duty would be the next level it's my duty as assignments my duty as a father
2:28:29
as a brother as an employer duty is a form of accountability
2:28:36
but at that level it's always going to be only to the standard of the person
2:28:43
who thinks it's a duty they're going to do the minimum of their duties
2:28:48
okay so that is willing to return you're willing to be accountable but
2:28:54
it'll be under certain conditions and then up from that is a request to be
2:29:00
accounted please pick me give that to me to take care and then that and it may be given that
2:29:07
to me to take care of because then I'll know it's taken care of right maybe give that to me to take care of
2:29:13
because I have a vision for it right because I'm capable at that I can get
2:29:18
the job done for the whole team and then up from requested I mentioned before is privileged it would be a
2:29:24
privilege to be accountable for it and as young as probably
2:29:33
um four or five years old it's appropriate to interact with young
2:29:39
people I don't call them children on purpose with young people about what
2:29:44
they can be counted on for and what I need to be able to count on you for are you willing to take that on be
2:29:51
interacted with as account honorable and how could I support you since you're committed to being accountable for that
2:29:58
what do you wish you were interested with if that was your job around here
2:30:03
you see life what do you wish was your job I wished mowing the lawn was my job
2:30:10
but I was a girl and those jobs were given the boys in the 60s I didn't get to mow the lawn or clean the pool I got
2:30:17
to vaccin and dust okay you can imagine my late 50s when I
2:30:24
got to work on my dad's car with him I'm excited I was to be painting the
2:30:31
calipers on his car the matching wreck
2:30:36
Dad I'm working on the so funny so that's beautiful yeah I mean
2:30:45
what he'll be empowered by is be known that he's counted on for what he wants
2:30:51
to be counted him and even what he'd like to grow into being Canada
2:30:58
it's it's tremendously empowering to young people to be held to account
2:31:04
there's so much smarter and more able and powerful and capable than a
2:31:09
different type and that's the way that we must get it yes especially the boys you're a typical
2:31:16
teenager I didn't have typical teenagers
2:31:21
at all I never went there you wouldn't [Music] well but I held my kids to account for
2:31:27
behaving in particular ways I never punished his punishment is
2:31:34
baloney mainly ever had real consequences in it they were finished
2:31:39
the desire to punish is deadly and and Punishment doesn't work
2:31:45
consequences real consequences actual consequences like if you don't get you're if you don't go to school
2:31:53
you end up with a lot of homework yeah yeah I didn't make my kids go to
2:31:58
school they decided to go to school because it was easier to do homework for other teacher was talking about stupid stuff
2:32:05
in the middle of class [Laughter]
2:32:11
accountability I recommend accountability that's great yeah it's um
2:32:17
calling calling to the archetype another book that you you might enjoy if you haven't if you haven't read it is king warrior magician lover by Robert Moore
2:32:24
and Douglas Gillette that's another one it's like calling to that King archetype even within a boy you know calling forth
2:32:30
not just uh when I hear the word Duty I think of something Beyond minimum but I
2:32:36
hear in in your hierarchy of you know that that what I think of of Duty is the privilege to do something like this is
2:32:42
my duty but yes that there's this hierarchy of um hierarchy of accountability we're at the
2:32:48
highest level like I would be privileged to take that on to give it to give a young boy the opportunity to perform to
2:32:55
that standard I mean that would be life-changing stuff for for a little boy especially especially if you give him
2:33:01
the tools to do it well right and he has a father and a mother who supports him in that that I mean absolutely
2:33:10
foundationally formative for his self-esteem and self-respect yes and every word in the language of Heroes
2:33:17
applies that was absolutely in fact I've seen it
2:33:23
a chapter one the word here oh wow wow I've never heard it before
2:33:30
responding the essence of what it is
2:33:36
[Music] yeah it works even with it works even with young boys as well which is such a
2:33:41
profound truth about men that it's it's part of us right it's not it's not something that that Allison came up with
2:33:48
and now that all men have to be taught and then we learn oh yeah it's like no no you've you've you've touched on
2:33:54
something that's fundamental and permanent and true in in the essential masculine makeup of men
2:34:00
then that was the power of it when I read it it's like it was like looking into a mirror and it's still like
2:34:05
looking into a mirror like listening into a mirror right and and that's that's the amazing part of it like I and
2:34:13
you talked about in the very beginning that you channeled you channeled the material or it was given to you whatever
2:34:18
the language is it's a it's a gift it chose to come through you into the world
2:34:24
and and um and the proof of that to me is that it's also blessed you and your life
2:34:32
right like you you received it and it continues to change and transform you and the men who are in your life and and
2:34:38
the women who in your life as well like in your personal life and me and so that's that's the the surest
2:34:43
testimony to the to the essential goodness of what you've discovered um
2:34:49
if I could say something to be complete your question from the father about
2:34:54
appreciation um there are different currencies of
2:35:00
appreciation and we often express appreciation in our own currencies
2:35:06
in it you may not register over there so it's really important to find out how do
2:35:13
you like to be appreciated and accountability can be a form of appreciation
2:35:21
um or it can be insulted haven't I done enough for you
2:35:29
um yeah it's it's one of the things that we have to be sensitive about interacting
2:35:35
with would you would you feel appreciated if that became your job
2:35:42
oh yeah they like you value them you trust me my job no that was fun to do this time
2:35:51
give me something else to do something else to do okay yeah
2:35:57
third question I've been waiting a year to get to say really save the best possible here's the thing
2:36:04
with here's the thing with the great reconciliation that I had realized uh it would have been it would have been
2:36:09
around when we met or after something like that but it was before we had that first Contact podcast conversation I
2:36:15
recognized that in the great reconciliation both men and women have to step into the circle at the same time
2:36:22
there can be no you go first it's like we both have to step into the circle at the same time and let go of a lot in the
2:36:30
spirit of faith and mutual trust and mutual love that it's not just women it's not just men it's both it's
2:36:36
happening simultaneously right and and the profound risk of trust and love and
2:36:43
faith that's embodied and all that and when you said that I realized that in that moment it sounded to me as if you
2:36:50
had taken apart the great reconciliation all the pieces of it and I was like oh I want what's that about and I wanted to
2:36:56
ask and I didn't ask because the conversation of course we went on our big rambling off-road journey and that
2:37:02
whole conversation and then four hours had gone by and it's like and it was gone and so I've had that thought in my
2:37:08
mind for over a year now wanting to talk about that specific thing that that
2:37:13
somehow it seems that you and I are looking at the same thing and that and that you see that you being you and
2:37:19
studying men and women the way that you do you see things at such a high at such a high resolution that I haven't been able to explore but there's something in
2:37:26
that there's something similar that you and I are looking at so I wanted to talk to you about that and and I don't know
2:37:32
if you can talk about what those 14 things are if it's in a course or what you can say about them but
2:37:37
please tell me it's been this giant mystery in my head
2:37:43
um so those Fortune things are in a close
2:37:50
um and I would propose to do them Justice that you and I
2:37:59
um have a different time to talk about okay and
2:38:04
um accountability is one of them
2:38:10
um by choice is the way I would put it it kind of give me my choice not just what
2:38:16
I'm trying to hold this to account for um sufficient clarity
2:38:24
there's a there's a sufficient amount of clarity that's required
2:38:29
um but I want to say something about the step into the room at the same time
2:38:37
because there's two sides of it
2:38:42
um the intent of my work directly on
2:38:47
partnership which there's 14 choices are is for people to embody those choices
2:38:56
and just so you use the word embody for people to embody those choices such that
2:39:02
they become what I call an invitation Department
2:39:08
so we can't make people partner and and not everyone is suited to partner and we
2:39:16
don't need to partner about everything in life we don't need to exclude
2:39:21
self-sufficiency um I think of human beings as as particle and waves
2:39:29
and the engineers we need to take care of
2:39:34
our particle in order to be a contribution to available waves in some
2:39:40
ways we participate in and it's also possible to lead it with um just called transformation
2:39:47
transformation teachers lead waves and
2:39:53
it's so to be an invitation to partner doesn't mean you're always going to get
2:40:01
a yes but until you're an invitation to partner you can't get it yes
2:40:07
and so this is to your your we have to step in at the same time
2:40:15
um we can't we can't control another stepping in we can only control elves
2:40:21
so if you step in as an invitation to partner and you're the only one standing
2:40:27
in the circle for years um we keep being an invitation to
2:40:32
partner but what I discovered once I stopped a masquerading men
2:40:38
is how much men are already an Invitational partner
2:40:43
and it had me inquire yes there are men who are not
2:40:51
they are self-sufficient as a principle even even Greg who had that as part of
2:40:57
his identity there were ways that we could partner magnificently like as parents
2:41:03
um but there's this other thing I want to
2:41:09
offer will and it happened between Dan and I just a short while ago at the
2:41:15
beginning of my five-week kind of vacation where where something happened in
2:41:23
checking into a hotel room in Nashville where he she went completely independent
2:41:30
to solve the problem and he didn't know that I was standing by to help solve it I mean this enormous
2:41:38
Rift I didn't just have my feelings hurt I was completely disconnected and
2:41:47
the way I described it to him the next day was that I I couldn't feel loved
2:41:57
I I could I I felt no love for him and I realized that I couldn't feel loved
2:42:03
period even for myself a really clear sign that I was deep in a
2:42:08
human instinctive reaction and when I told him I couldn't to love for you he said yes I could tell
2:42:16
and I became an island um and so here were these two human beings
2:42:24
in this situation together completely isolated I actually piled up pillows on
2:42:31
the edge of my bed between us like wanted a wall I was so
2:42:38
disconnected from my own spirit and a funny thing that happened the day
2:42:44
before when we were driving to the airport we passed a lake and this Lake normally has an island in the center of
2:42:52
it and I noticed that the water had fallen so low that there was now a land
2:42:58
breach between this island and it the surrounding environment and my remark
2:43:04
was wow I hope there are birds nesting on that island because now the Predators
2:43:10
can get to them through the land bridge and I just it was just an offhand
2:43:16
comment well we didn't speak for a lot
2:43:21
of hours like 16 hours or something we didn't speak to each other sharing a
2:43:27
hotel room about to attend a retreat I'm being Guided by higher consciousness
2:43:37
and I came out of the bathroom and he was standing there and he said can we hug
2:43:45
and I did not want time but we hoped
2:43:51
and it was like two boxes hugging there was no warmth no softness no
2:43:59
Comfort no connection no nothing but I acknowledged him later
2:44:06
for offering the land breach that he had become an island and that in
2:44:14
that moment asking for a hug he had offered a land bridge and even though I didn't want to I
2:44:20
accepted it and that was the beginning of us being able to talk about what had
2:44:26
happened and to sort it out and to reconcile and
2:44:34
we we now have evolved it because you know we we play so so land bridge became
2:44:40
hand bridge when there's a breakdown he'll hold out his hand and Bridge and
2:44:46
I'll take his hand either one I don't want him and we had a breakdown we got back from
2:44:52
my birthday trip to Hawaii so I came out with something that we
2:44:57
normally don't eat a scone for the non-gluten eaters food branch
2:45:04
[Music] and and I it's something that I said years and years ago about in a
2:45:11
partnership he or she who can dance
2:45:18
so if you if you can say I'm sorry if you can say let's talk if you can say
2:45:28
if you can reach out your hand you do reach out your hand
2:45:33
yeah and until we do that we won't know if the other person will
2:45:41
step into the circle until we step into the circle we won't know who it's going
2:45:46
to show and that's what stunned me when I stopped emasculating mine
2:45:53
I thought I'd have to learn how to bring out the prince instead of the fog I'd
2:45:59
learn how to I'd have to learn how to bring out the best sooner when I just stopped taking men's power
2:46:06
I was stunned and continue to be amazed by crew men offer before you're coming
2:46:17
just stop being unkind and find out who mental and so many of you are already in the
2:46:24
circle bewildered why women treat you like enemies
2:46:29
when all you want is good for us and you don't know that how we're
2:46:36
judging you and perceiving you we can't see your goodness because you don't express it like a woman which goes back
2:46:42
to our previous conversation so many men are trying to express it like a woman in order to be seen but it's a betrayal of
2:46:49
yourself and cause you to be even less yes
2:46:55
yes this is why from from the female side of the reconciliation
2:47:06
what I've said for years is is that it's up to us
2:47:11
men are not the source of the Cold War men are not not on the attack men are on
2:47:19
the defense when women stop attacking men this all
2:47:25
mountains they don't have a need for it and it's it's a different word that I use than
2:47:33
powerful in in Partnership power disappears
2:47:40
another way of saying it there's power enough between us that we don't even talk about it we don't even think about
2:47:47
it there's no power of struggle because there's power enough between us
2:47:52
there's no powerful power less power zero there's just us and and ability right
2:48:00
Powers the ability to do or generate a Cause right there's justability and partnership there's a
2:48:06
stability and that's what happens when you stop being afraid of each other and stop taking each other down or when we're
2:48:13
afraid of each other we say so I'm scared and
2:48:19
last year when I produced to own your ultimatums and Dan realized what I was
2:48:25
talking about he's like okay what else on your list will we break up a word I said every single thing yes
2:48:35
each and every one of them including the ones you already are if you stop being that way and you're 42 all together and
2:48:43
and at one point I said I want to run and he said and he reached out and he
2:48:50
said okay take my hand and then we're talking some more and a
2:48:55
little while lady goes now I want to run let's hold both hands
2:49:01
ha that's great what a man
2:49:12
yeah it's so big you know and he generates being that way when I'm at my
2:49:18
worst which is what I realized I needed in a partner was not just someone I inspired to be
2:49:25
great or it can be great when I'm safe but generates being great on their own
2:49:31
when I'm my scariest and my scared which obviously they go together and my skills
2:49:40
which is how to help me
2:49:46
he's got that he's got that strength of Venom to be able to contain that and to be able to respond to that into um
2:49:54
disarm it let's say yeah
2:50:00
so I think we should dedicate its own
2:50:05
session to the great reconciliency okay about add some some homework for you
2:50:13
before and I look forward to the conversation me too me too and and thank you for
2:50:20
pointing something out to me by the way because I I um I know a lot of men who have dealt with
2:50:27
being castrated for for a long time right and and whether they've allowed
2:50:34
them some selves to be or not they've been the recipients of it and they have a lot of distrust of women
2:50:40
um and it's earned it's earned and not only that do they have the distrust of women their
2:50:46
shamed persecuted for even mentioning it for even suggesting that women are anything less than perfect angels that
2:50:53
women have a shadow that women have a dark side that women are unkind or unfair to men they get in trouble for
2:50:58
even saying that and so so they have a lot of earned we'll call it resentment anger towards
2:51:05
women and towards the entire cultural moment that doesn't allow them
2:51:10
to even say this is wrong and bad and so when I say step into this and women of
2:51:16
course have their own culturally um cultivated resentments towards men as we've been discussing
2:51:21
so when I talk about having to step in at the same time I'm speaking to those men that like no
2:51:28
you have to let go of this as well but you help me you help and this is the world that I come from right like not
2:51:34
not where I was born but like the world of the Ben's movement that I've come through with men who have recognized a lot of things that you're describing
2:51:40
haven't been able to put as clear language to them and are like yeah I
2:51:45
don't even know if I I naturally my body want to do this but if I make myself
2:51:51
vulnerable or available to a woman is she gonna bring her daggers into the
2:51:57
circle what's her disincentive from doing that because men can look around and we can
2:52:02
see everywhere in movies and stuff like that where it's like all women got their daggers out hold on while I just
2:52:08
castrate all these men in this new Lord of the Rings series I'm just gonna six episodes of castrating men right and so
2:52:13
men look at that and they're like why should I trust women but you remind me that the men who think about those sort
2:52:20
of things is not all men that there are a lot of men are like look I'm just looking for partnership I'm just here trying to do my thing I want to be a
2:52:27
husband I want to be a provider and there are a lot of men that are already standing in the circle and you remind me of that so thank you
2:52:33
for that because I think that there are some men that I'm trying to encourage to step into the circle because I know many women who are like I'm so ready to step
2:52:40
into the circle well then there's a ton of other people out there men in particular that are like yeah Ma I've
2:52:45
been here I've been holding it down so thank you for reminding me of that you're welcome
2:52:53
I would also say well that part of my intent of the Queen's code specifically
2:53:00
the audiobook is that one way that men can remove it
2:53:08
is once hi honey we're on my last sentence I
2:53:14
think you want to say hi to Will oh cool
2:53:21
she's gotta take this cold close up okay oh you got a Snoopy on the Zamboni
2:53:27
come here honey look at this face what a blessing it
2:53:34
will hey what's up Dan good to see you good to see you
2:53:40
yeah that pillows not actually if you're
2:53:46
falling yeah I'll let you guys get back to it good
2:53:51
seeing your will good to see you Dan okay
2:53:58
um I I believe and I would love for you to
2:54:05
check this out for me I believe in listening to the Queen's
2:54:10
code and Men recognizing their resonance
2:54:16
of Who You Are
2:54:21
that you can also read it or listen to it from the intent to understand
2:54:30
the source of emasculation yes and by doing so when I witnessed
2:54:38
this you literally can become impervious to a masquerade
2:54:45
you can just see it for what it is yeah you can just see oh she's scared out of her lips I can have
2:54:52
this yeah and that that thought I can handle this I can be with this I don't
2:54:59
have to mess with this I don't have to keep to this all of those thoughts literally create themselves
2:55:06
you think you can handle it you can period
2:55:11
and and that's what I wish for men from the Queen's code not only to to see the
2:55:18
the goodness the honor of your own motivations and no longer let them be
2:55:24
attacked when when women are choosing you of baloney right except that just isn't
2:55:30
true not allow it yes and that's the strength that we as women
2:55:36
need we know when we're first set and and we respect the man who doesn't
2:55:43
fall for it I know who you are I know who I am I'm not falling for that
2:55:49
oh really oh thank goodness because we know we're our own worst
2:55:54
enemies so I I I'm working both sides of it for women
2:56:02
to give up justifying emasculating men which is the beginning of curing
2:56:08
ourselves of the habit and the reaction of it and for men to stop falling for it
2:56:17
you you don't have to agree to be a master yes
2:56:23
please decline
2:56:28
women will stop doing it some will
2:56:36
I I give a talk I know you have to go but I gave a talk at a conference in 2021 that I'm going to turn to a YouTube
2:56:41
video about this very subject about how men can stop allowing themselves to be emasculated and where it comes from in women so I'll send that to you when
2:56:48
that's done thank you link to it on our website we can have people watch it
2:56:54
I would love that I would love that thank you so much Alice continued
2:57:01
we'll communicate about that other stuff okay and then and then where would you like to send people
2:57:07
um any links to visit or social media profiles that you'd like um
2:57:13
Allison armstrong.com is easiest place it's the only way it's only a patient get that audiobook mm-hmm
2:57:20
yeah perfect we'll do that thank you thank you thank you Allison I love you I love
2:57:27
you too bye bye
Transcript
0:00
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual vibration
0:08
able to think thoughts and not others the whole capacities that come from
0:13
feeling truly safe nothing contributes to that the same way as one man that you
0:21
know is for you [Music]
0:30
hello and welcome to the Renaissance of men podcast my name is Will Spencer my guest this week is a speaker thought
0:36
leader and best-selling author of the keys to the kingdom and the Queen's code Allison Armstrong in 2018 as I was
0:44
discovering that the men's movement was much bigger than I realized reading Donovan and tomasi and listening to
0:50
Mickler and Peterson I also discovered Allison's books and I saw myself reflected in them to a degree that I
0:57
still find striking it's quite a thing to realize that a woman has just as many good things to say about men as men do
1:03
and perhaps even more but that's the Allison Armstrong and she's quite a thing too and now almost nine years
1:09
after publishing the Queen's code in print she's finally released it in audiobook version and not a moment too
1:15
soon because whether or not people know to call it that the great reconciliation is happening and the Queen's code
1:21
audiobook is here to help us hear and most importantly feel the ways we could be as men and women together in our our
1:28
conversation Allison and I discussed her journey to write and record the Queen's code the difference between needing
1:35
versus being needy how Allison used to treat men at parties long before she wrote the Queen's code the importance of
1:41
discovering our ultimatums or the things in relationship we're not willing to live without why we should all go a bit
1:47
easier on the nice guys and finally stories about her relationship with the man in her life Dan who even shows up at
1:54
the very end to say hi if you enjoy the Renaissance of men podcast thank you don't forget to hit that like button and
2:01
subscribe and share this episode so we can reach more men and women so please join me in welcoming this week's guest
2:06
on the Renaissance of men podcast the best-selling author and voice over artist of the Queen's code my friend
2:12
Allison Armstrong hey Alice and welcome back to the podcast thank you I'm so glad to
2:20
glad to be well I want to say congratulations you are now uh Far and Away my number one podcast of all time
2:25
first first podcast across 5 000 downloads which is pretty incredible when you think about it was like four
2:31
four hours long so it's really cool to see like they'll
2:37
just spike out of nowhere like hundreds of downloads in a month like someone must share it somewhere it's it's really
2:42
cool to see that just how how long the legs have been for that conversation wow well I I mention you a lot as well
2:51
so I don't know if people go looking at that point but um we have extraordinary conversations ever
2:58
since the first run for the Renaissance of men that's right that's right it seems to be a habit
3:07
well congratulations also on the release of the Queen's code audiobook which I finished listening to and you know as I
3:13
mentioned I've read the print the Kindle version I read the book a couple times but hearing it read in your voice
3:22
Blended a whole new shade of meaning to some of the interactions between the
3:27
characters your characterizations of them and and the meaning behind the words to really
3:33
um it brought it to life in a very different way from your imagination rather than just me imposing my
3:38
imagination on it and both are equally valid um so what was that process like for you recording the audiobook
3:48
it was it was intense it was emotional as you can hear my voice sometimes it
3:54
was yeah um there are a couple of things that were
4:01
on it like how did that happen but it goes back to
4:08
um as you know I started studying men in 1991. right right
4:15
um the the scene in the first chapter of keys of the Queen's Community actually
4:20
happened but the scene in the in the first chapter the things but it it happened to
4:26
me my my colleague co-worker kind of friend was called a bug phone and
4:34
um and I had the division that Kimberly is expressing and and then as I realized
4:43
you know I oh my gosh I'm really a friend from I'm a very successful
4:48
I prided myself in the way I thought of it as getting men to show their true
4:56
colors yeah um within like 10 days
5:01
yeah industrial frog farmer oh my gosh I did not want to fall in love again and
5:09
um and so I you know I had come to the conclusion that men are cons and
5:15
um and I want to reveal a con before I fell for it and it
5:22
it didn't include any that I had anything to do with the version of every man I was getting I thought that was the
5:29
real notion which I now equate to kicking a dog and then the dog when it
5:35
bites you or it runs away or it runs away and invites you and bites you and then runs away all those versions can
5:42
happen and um but this question popped into my head as I was sitting there
5:47
confronting it and the question was what if men are responding to women and and you know I've talked about that
5:54
question right and it's worth listening to those conversations in the in your in the podcast but when we did before
6:01
but that's really the beginning of a lot of strangeness that I'm only now coming to
6:08
terms with strangeness strangeness like that question popped into my head
6:16
where did that question come from that's always a question right yes yes and
6:22
that's what I've been delving into and and including other questions that have
6:31
guided my research that I thought I thought of that
6:36
question maybe the question thought of you
6:41
could be yes yes and but in this in the story of the Queen's code other strangeness I could never I never
6:49
questioned like these questions popping in my head what am I responding to women and then when Greg did something that
6:56
was just outrageous to me the question what if there's a good reason for that
7:01
um which led to all my research on that everybody everybody man or woman only
7:08
ever does what's important to them yeah ever and and to all the things we
7:15
think we should do that we haven't done they just haven't risen to the level of importance right and and that happened
7:22
because Greg you know knocked over a blender of mine left it broken on the floor
7:27
single Focus too extreme he was trying to get he was trying to catching that plane and um okay I get it yeah and then
7:36
what if no one's misbehaving including you right there's another one that popped in and then a few years ago
7:43
just right out of my mouth honor yourself first or always lost
7:48
and so these kinds of things that popped in right and
7:54
um so that's where my research began right what if men are responding to women and within
8:01
um that was 1981 within a year of that I had
8:07
um been asked to stop castrating men literally put that way um and had done had done so
8:15
um seeing what happens when we don't interact with men by handling their
8:21
power and then we'll talk um I had met Greg I my not yet husband
8:26
but soon to be um and I come to the conclusion that the
8:32
things that I learned in that year had to do shift that I I had to write a book
8:38
I have to put this in a book um but I
8:44
I talked to somebody about it and he told me how to tell whether I had enough material for a book and um if you have
8:50
more than 10 chapter titles you can do a book and I did definitely a
8:57
year in and it was shortly after that that I was
9:03
um meeting Greg's family and talking to his
9:09
um his sister of mine I could tell that her marriage was in trouble I've been watching the way they're interacting I
9:15
was watching you she talked about him I could tell like discussing he's the kingdom I could tell if he had become a
9:22
king and she hadn't caught up with that his needs were very different than the
9:28
20 years that they had been to raised a family together and she was an Adaptive and this this was gonna this was having
9:36
a huge effect and it could get worse and I I tried to tell her about it I tried
9:41
to tell her about the stages of development and she basically wasn't listening she
9:47
just didn't care and then I switched over to telling her story
9:52
and it's just this funny little story a friend of mine and I made up um called The Princess and the swamp rat
9:58
[Laughter] all right all right let's see where this
10:06
goes let's go back dude if you wanted to hear the story of The Princess and the song but I'll tell you the story but all of a
10:13
sudden I kind of do I all of a sudden I had a complete attention and and we were shopping together and
10:19
you know girls can talk and shop and but now she's paying attention and then her husband comes to pick us up give us a
10:25
ride back to the family reunion and and she's like sketch Allison's telling me the story let her finish and that's when
10:34
I got it oh how whatever this book is it needs to be a stolen
10:41
and oh okay yeah that's where it came from this is this has got to be a story
10:46
because we can hear things when we're not in the hot seat right when someone's saying you you are
10:53
doing this and don't do this this or this it's very hard to learn it's very hard to let our guards down it's very
11:00
hard to let our point of view be altered so
11:05
actually that the the next day we were driving home
11:10
and I was writing like the story started showing up and I was writing it
11:16
literally on a shopping list a brown paper shopping list oh wow it was just
11:23
coming out and I was writing writing writing and as I did that which was ended up just being the first couple of
11:29
chapters I don't even not even chapter like paragraphs and I don't even know where they ended up because what happened when I came to write the book
11:36
but it became obvious as I was doing that that I didn't know how to read it
11:41
but I already used what I learned about men against men that hurt me badly once
11:48
I found out how you really motivated Kryptonite and and that I
11:55
I needed to write a book that at that time I thought it was just for
12:01
women I didn't know well how much it would affect me and
12:06
I needed to write it and confirm oh my gosh the whole other thing we could talk
12:12
about but it yeah I'm sure we will since you since you listened to it but it read it in and listened to it and
12:18
so as I I realized that I needed to know more I needed to know more about
12:24
one what triggered women to masturbate nothing and
12:30
and to how they did it all the different ways that they did it and three and
12:36
maybe most importantly how they Justified yep yep
12:43
I needed to know a whole lot more about that and then fourth what are you doing
12:48
today right since the masculation comes from fear and frustration
12:53
what are you doing instead how do women emasculate men because they think that's
12:59
the only way to get what they need and even though it doesn't work they don't have an alternative so I had to figure
13:06
out all four of those things and that's when I told my best friend
13:12
um I think I need to do a workshop in order to learn how to teach this so that
13:21
I can write the book and
13:27
so we we did that starting in January of 1995. I didn't know it would take
13:35
almost 15 years of doing those workshops before one evening I knew I knew how to
13:43
write the book like like I I'd gotten enough of all those four things in all
13:48
these different expressions from thousands of women and contributions of
13:54
hundreds of men I knew I finally knew how to write it and so I wrote a book I
14:00
wrote a book proposal right chapter by chapter and this will be about this and that'll be about that and then we you
14:07
know went me and my agent went to New York and we had a bidding you know for
14:12
the for the publication of the book and that's very very exciting to talk about it but it does for your ego because of
14:17
bidding on your book and and you know and I chose the editor that
14:23
I loved the most about the most resonance with and and then sat down
14:29
to write the book and then that's when it got really strange which had happened
14:35
before she's the kingdom but I I didn't trust it to happen again
14:40
and that was you know I sat down to write and it literally occurs like it's
14:46
it's like this big but this big and it's right here and a
14:52
movie screen opened and a movie started playing and I started typing
14:59
and I didn't know the word channeling then and I still don't trust that word
15:04
it seems weird yeah to me and I what the heck is that I just know that
15:10
[Music] that no one can write a 96 000 word book
15:16
in three weeks it's it's pretty fast yeah and I oh I didn't read it I just
15:24
watched the movie and typed as fast as I could and it it was weird it was like trying to write a screenplay from a
15:32
movie right so then backwards backwards yeah just trying to describe what I was
15:40
seeing like like how do you describe this
15:45
how do you know you describe that yeah and and yeah and then it was it was also
15:53
really you know he's the kingdom which was what
15:59
I knew I could write at the time years before like 15 years ago a lot of many
16:04
years before 2003 I that ran as a movie too and that's
16:10
like 42 000 words and it I it all got typed up in like eight dates but I I
16:17
kind of forgot how weird it was never
16:22
what I know this is well I'm coming more to terms with the
16:29
strangeness of my life and because you know became stranger um when my husband died and and so
16:39
it's actually been um stunning and you had asked what it was like to do the audiobook
16:46
so I've done three book clubs I think before that two or three book clubs at
16:51
The Shift Network which meant I re-read the book to prepare for every session
16:57
every chapter with with the participants and even reading the book was there kept
17:05
being things that surprised me I didn't know that was taught in this book I didn't know we did that in this book I
17:12
didn't I don't remember that happening and and then when I was recording the
17:18
audiobook two things one was it was
17:24
so much more intense like like I just I I just
17:32
conveying the story reading the story consistent with how I watched it right
17:40
um I realized oh my gosh the emotion the the pain The Joy the struggle like
17:49
everything is so much more intense in me reading the story to to everybody
17:57
and and I was like matching the movie that I
18:02
watched right and the movie was Vivid for me as I was reading it even though
18:08
every part I was reading I didn't remember was in there right and and when I was typing up the
18:17
movie like people have asked me so how did you pick these eight characters I did it no
18:24
why did you have the story evolved like this I did it couldn't tell you
18:31
I did it I transcribed the moon I did all the research I mean I did everything
18:39
in in the Queen's code is validated by real life research that
18:45
I did is it anything in there that is outrageous outlandish Unthinkable no
18:51
it's all based on real research and the characters in the story
18:59
are just themselves and which was then what happened that was really now this
19:06
is odd upon Odd as I was um as I was doing the audio recording and
19:13
sometimes I just have to stop because I was overwhelmed with emotion and there
19:19
was one particular time that I just I I lost it do you know
19:26
um oh my gosh um just so you're not distracted by
19:33
wondering uh it's the part when Bert confronts Claudia about how exhausted
19:41
teaching it is for her and what you see him happening to her and she as he's
19:49
making he wants to make a deal as he's as he's making a deal with her
19:58
um and telling her what she she needs and what it would provide um at the end of that you might remember
20:05
he says I'm not done meeting you you know remember that yeah
20:13
I I don't know how long it took and how many times I had to retake that to get through it because I didn't know that
20:20
that was in the Queen's code and that was what I was literally screaming at
20:27
Greg while I was trying to bring him back from the heart
20:35
if I was doing my version of superior that's watched on TV what it didn't
20:41
matter if I could have done it right it was a triple explosion in his chest but that's what I was yelling at him I'm not
20:47
done anything yet I just reading that in a book oh oh my
20:54
gosh and so that wasn't even another strange part
21:01
I wanted to tell you the other Strange point was and I don't know how this happens how
21:07
does a movie change so as I was recording the audiobook
21:14
you know this about me right I have this thing about truth right and Truth has a
21:20
Inlet they can't authenticity has a has a feel to it and
21:27
um what I call Old brain when someone's not present when someone's not present
21:33
and they're just speaking rotely about something they're used to speaking about or words that don't really mean anything
21:41
to them anymore they don't stand out it has this quality I call I call Old brain it's kind of it's fake okay and I can
21:49
hear it and people aren't learned right when they're when they're an old brain they're not learning who needs all that
21:54
new girlfriend I see I see yeah so so I just I just had this feel first up and
22:02
it took a long time for me to figure out that it only happened when
22:07
Claudia was speaking and I had to retake Claudius parts
22:16
um it ended up taking usually four times I would have to redo it before it had
22:24
the resonance of what she meant yep that makes sense yeah you live in that material well what
22:32
was strange was that I would do it the way that I heard it
22:38
the way that I heard it when I first transcribed the book I would say it that way and it wouldn't be right and I'd say
22:46
it again and so on here I'll say it again and always when it was finally right Claudia had changed in the 10
22:55
years since I watched the movie Claudia changed she was both more
23:01
intense more playful and more compassionate
23:06
then then the person I watched in a movie
23:13
how does that how does that happen but but I kept doing it until it felt
23:21
right and and it was delightful to me to see what had happened to her
23:28
some people might say that's also happened to me that was going to be my question
23:33
well that's another thing that's odd about the Queen's code is you know when I started studying men I
23:41
was Melissa I I was that awful
23:48
incomprehensible it right was that hurt I was that bitter I
23:54
was that vengeful and antagonistic I I was
24:00
Melissa and then and then I became Kimberly when I found out I was a frog
24:05
farmer and got curious right um and Karen I never really was Karen I
24:13
just taught a lot of kittens right um but then here here I was reading this
24:20
last year and I had become more cloudier
24:26
got it 30 years of teaching this material and the vastness right because
24:32
I've never stopped researching um
24:38
so I just kept thinking as I was recording
24:43
it that I I wanted it just kept I just kept hearing I want to be there for people I want to be there for people and
24:51
because how intense it is and how quickly you get to chapter three [Laughter]
24:58
I had months before I got to chapter three in my life when I was studying
25:04
yes yes yeah folks are having like four hours of
25:11
listening to the book before they get to chapter three Inner Path to completely
25:19
alter the way that they're interacting with themselves and others and and I
25:25
just kept thinking I got I gotta do that for them I want to be there for them and I um I just started last week the second
25:33
time I caught your Quince card Journey because everyone has a different Journey now I'm looking forward to hearing about
25:38
yours and everyone's is different and I just wanted to be there to answer their
25:45
questions right just like like Karen and Kimberly got to ask all their questions before
25:51
they took the big the laying down the sword I right yeah I wanted my people to get to do
25:59
that and I did it over the summer and I just started doing it for the second time because it's it's such an amazing
26:05
thing to do and and I'm I'm still learning from the klinska that's what
26:13
that's another strange thing yeah me too me too your third time my third time
26:23
so tell me about it my Queen's code Journey follow-up question yeah yeah and before we do that is there a do
26:30
you have a fan in there or something like that oh let me fix that let me okay okay good no problem sorry about that
26:37
that's okay that's believe me I've had way worse situations to work with in
26:43
podcasts before so this was this was an easy fix Okay so
26:48
um you know my you asked about my Queen's code journey and yeah there's a couple there's a
26:55
couple things I want to point out before I answer that question first is that
27:00
um you started writing and thinking about writing about about men in the 90s now most people who are in what we call
27:08
the Men's movement now didn't start doing that until like 2005 2010 I mean
27:14
you had guys like Robert Bly and Warren Farrell and and uh Douglas uh uh Douglas
27:20
Wilson and and Robert Moore Douglas Gillette sorry um doing it in the early 90s but you
27:26
started as far back as then and I don't know that that's appreciated enough that you've been doing this longer than most
27:32
men have been doing it which I think is is pretty remarkable so that you've had 30 or so years to develop which I think
27:38
is what gives your work the power that it does and um and it's so strange that you've been doing it for so long but you
27:45
go talk to men about like no no I've never heard of Allison Armstrong but then there's all these other people over here who have so you know that's always
27:51
very cool and then I think the other thing is that you know the The Queen's code audiobook
27:57
is what almost 11 hours long just over 10 hours long yeah right and so you're talking about
28:03
multiple takes I mean I can imagine it must have taken you 40 hours or so probably to try and record it I mean at
28:10
least you know if you're trying Claudia over and over again and Claudia talks a lot in the book as it turns out
28:17
um I don't know I'd have to look at the bill from the sound engineer
28:24
I just know that there were there are whole parts that I didn't have to do multiple things
28:31
got it it was usually just climbing okay um and
28:39
[Music] yeah it it it probably I'm trying to
28:46
think how many weekends do you spend doing that there's probably about 20 hours of me recording but then we I had
28:53
multiple people listened and um and and went back and did retakes and
29:02
things to um and just things that like squeaky chairs there's no such thing as I'm not
29:09
screened here no such thing even in a professional Sound Studio yes yeah so so
29:17
there were there are a lot of people who participated in the quality of it and
29:22
you know had them um the last one had literally Bose
29:28
headphones on and she was I was having her listen for anything that would
29:34
distract people from The Experience they were in happened to them right
29:41
had someone munching next to you with some popcorn in a movie right right I for some reason I guess I
29:48
had pictured you recording it at home but if you actually went into an audio like a professional studio that makes
29:54
sense that makes sense too that must have been a very different experience actually because I could picture you at
30:00
home in in your home studio or something like that recording it privately but to be in a professional studio recording
30:06
that stuff in front of other people must have been that must have been an experience I have to ask about that
30:13
because I just pictured you doing it alone and being able to have your own kind of experience re-encountering and
30:18
trying to embody some of the things the characters are saying and the story itself but it was actually a shared
30:24
experience in a way like that must have been that must have been a whole other thing
30:29
well it it habits its moments um his name is Steve Boynton and
30:36
um Dan found him for me he did a great job the audio sounds incredible yeah
30:42
thank you he he was amazing I never met him before scheduling to do this
30:50
um it's actually what had me end up moving one of the things that the impetus for moving the steamboat oh was
30:58
I already needed to be here for periods of time to do the recording and um and
31:05
so I moved here in the middle of it based on other things and uh
31:10
and so he was he was someone who didn't know me he didn't know my work or
31:16
anything about it um he didn't even really follow along in
31:21
this story um in the beginning she was just being technical right and and it wasn't until
31:30
later on um one of the times that that the emotion
31:38
um came through I think it was Kimberly's emotion that came through and I and I said I said I I think I need to
31:46
do that again and and he actually said it sounded right like what happened
31:53
but but then something would happen it was very much further along in the bucket and he's like I don't think you
32:01
need to it fits and search the way he listened to change that's great
32:06
um but he was present for I mean there literally were times I just broke down and silent and and he just he's waiting
32:15
until I recovered myself um
32:27
part of what would have me end up be emotional will is that
32:33
is that however they do it um those the characters those people
32:40
exist and um when I was transcribing to the
32:47
kingdom like one morning I I woke up and
32:53
um I think you you you're right he's the Kingdom right or did you listen to it I read that first okay good yeah I like it
33:00
for people to read it first but they don't they don't have to and um so that was also a movie right and I
33:07
didn't decide on those four characters and and then for them those four to go
33:13
on and become eight but when I was writing he's the kingdom like I woke up one morning and I knew
33:21
that today was the day that Karen was going to see the table right the table
33:27
okay this table keeps getting referred to right yeah and um
33:32
and I just knew there was something special about this table but I didn't know what it was because
33:38
because I'm just transcribing the movie and I woke up that morning I thought oh
33:44
Karen's gonna see the table today and I said out loud do you think you should show it to me
33:51
and then boom I saw the tape right and and just
33:58
oh my gosh right I didn't see Kimberly's chair so Kimberly saw hurt you oh and
34:07
and tell her and Karen and Bert were standing in front of the chair and she was asking him about it right and why he
34:12
did it I didn't know any of that and but what happened
34:20
what happens is is that I can check in with them so I'm about in the first trimester
34:29
pregnant with the sequel movement and
34:35
um and it's tempting for me to see if I can only do it in an
34:40
audiobook instead of a pre-book because now I know how different
34:47
my conveyance of this story is from someone reading it to themselves and
34:54
um this beautiful woman in South Africa her name is Candice um
34:59
what she expressed to me and talking about having read the Queen's bed which she did a few years ago and then
35:05
listening to it she said and it was so shocking to me I can't
35:11
quote her accurately I need to go back and listen to it but it was to the effect of she said Allison I realized
35:17
that I didn't read the men's parts
35:24
to myself the way that you do because of my prejudice against men that
35:33
they would never be that I think she said that sincere or that
35:40
emotion and I and that's when I realized oh my
35:46
gosh everyone who's read the Queen's code since it was published in 2012
35:52
right everyone which is I don't somewhere over a hundred
35:58
thousand people have read it to themselves we don't know the exact number because right when we originally
36:05
printed it we made it possible for people to download it and print out as many copies as they want
36:12
oops I mean cool but oops it wasn't a Hoops I did it on purpose oh okay okay
36:18
yeah I you know I've expressed it as uh you know my goal is to be those
36:24
pirated author what you wish for well
36:31
I I am and people actually I'll say how did you how did you find out about me and they'll be like I'm sorry
36:39
my friend made a copy of the NSYNC CD and gave it to me okay it's cool
36:48
originally published please to the kingdom we people um people got a PDF
36:55
and it came with a letter that said um well we hope you'll let your friends
37:01
and family buy their own copy of Tuesday Kingdom if you just can't help it I
37:07
forgive you in advance I just would say
37:16
and I don't know how many people did that but I'm a messenger right so get the message
37:22
out and people passing secret notes so sometimes one of the best ways to do it and
37:29
anyhow my point was where I started out with is I can I can check in I can check
37:35
in with the storm and it's like they give me movie trailers
37:42
of the of what's to come oh
37:47
there we go [Laughter] yes yes and so I knew before recording
37:55
the audiobook last year I knew that the next book starts a year after the
38:02
Queen's code minutes it's it's been it's been a year and and
38:09
I know it starts with the characters reflecting back on all that happened for
38:14
them in that year and how excited they are now that they the the lessons
38:22
um yeah so there's things that I know are going to happen that colored me
38:30
recording the audio oh sort of like you were foreshadowing almost in a way well I just knew but
38:38
when I originally transcribed it I didn't know that that was going to
38:43
happen now I know things that are going to happen that I didn't know and it changed
38:51
um yeah well I think it's you asked me about my Queen's code journey and I'm actually
38:57
really enjoying hearing about your Queen's code Journey right because most
39:02
people don't really have well I can't say that but you know it's a book your books profoundly impacted me
39:10
and um and I want to talk about that in a second but it's really amazing to hear the way that your own books have
39:16
impacted you and and I think that's the thing that really came through in listening to the
39:23
audiobook was that I know you and we've spent a lot of time talking and I could listen into the audiobook and I could I
39:30
could hear inflections in your voice and the way that you would say things I was like okay I bet that was a pretty meaningful kind of moment or hear you
39:38
smiling in some ways and it was like okay and so so I got a hint of it but to
39:43
hear the way that it's evolved for you over 30 or so years since your initial
39:48
being called a frog farmer and you told me that that was a real story and and
39:54
um the story about the snap shirts right right
40:00
yeah yeah okay so can you tell can you tell that story real quick because I
40:06
think it really it's like a point A to point B C D kind of thing where it's
40:12
like to imagine to know you now and to read the ways that you write and think
40:17
and teach about men and and to read the way that you to hear you tell the story of the way that you were yeah it's one
40:25
of those things like how does a person get from there to from from point A to point B so if you tell the snapshot
40:31
story because I think I think it'll really impact a lot of people to hear that
40:36
um oh boy well I don't know if I gave you this
40:41
background when I told it to them um
40:47
so I always 17 and by then I'd already
40:53
concluded that men are bigger and stronger and they'll hurt them
41:01
and so I'd already unconsciously taken up
41:09
disempowerment and and my
41:15
Forte if you will um
41:20
[Laughter] Forte and disempowering Men exactly so
41:28
if I forte in this empowering men was keeping men off balance
41:35
hmm so um yeah it can feel yourself into that's
41:42
a certain way of being disempowered so it wasn't it was rarely a direct hit
41:49
it was just a sense that if I could tell when a man was on tilt like tilt like
41:54
just tilted on one foot again couldn't attack I felt safe when he couldn't
42:01
get his bearings when he couldn't to piss back together that's when I felt
42:07
safe and so the way that it manifested in
42:16
1978 was going to parties and I um I had
42:23
been challenged uh by a friend to not drink
42:28
and um and so I wasn't I I was at a I mean
42:33
people 17 year old shouldn't be drinking anyway but never mind that
42:38
so I so I wasn't drinking and I would do it even when I was drinking I I so I
42:45
carried I had a bottle of beer I filled it with water but I had a bottle of beer because I was tired of people asking me
42:51
why I wasn't drinking and um and it was the era of you know of
42:59
Urban Cowboy and snap shirts and actually wearing I'm
43:05
wearing one I'm wearing one I didn't plan this
43:11
didn't plan it yeah and I yeah and I had a particular um
43:18
disdain if you will for athletes um to me they're in the most full of
43:25
themselves the most like mean and inconsiderate and and so they were like
43:32
they were my Target and um and I think at that particular party
43:39
I think I got at least three like a couple of swimmers you know oh man
43:45
[Laughter] and I as you know I I would walk up to
43:52
them and they'd have a beer in their hand and I'd ask them could they please hold my beer and they would go okay and
43:58
they'd reach out take my beer now they have both hands full and I would just reach out and go
44:04
and snap all the snaps on their shirt and I actually was shocked the first
44:11
time it had been because these were it might be these were peacocks right Easter yeah these were
44:18
these young men who walked around like I'm all that and so when I you know
44:25
ripped open their shirt revealing their pecs and abs that they worked so hard on I expected them to be I thought they'd
44:33
be cool about it right but when they weren't when instead they went like this
44:39
two beers in the beers foaming out trying to conceal themselves
44:46
um yeah I thought it was hilarious and and I felt safe and I felt like I put these
44:54
I'll spare the word I had a bad word for them I yeah I put
45:00
them in their place and I just thought that I said after that and go on with what I was doing and
45:07
it's funny you asked me to tell it to you well because because I mean knowing what I know now and how
45:17
how much that um that how much the posture right how
45:22
much the posture that I interpreted as such egotism
45:29
um is really more the posture of a warrior on guard
45:34
and part of being on guard is to reveal nothing that could be used
45:40
against you and and women don't know that if you
45:48
share something meaningful to you with us and we share it with other people
45:54
that we have just revealed you um and that's a betrayal for a man yeah
46:01
and so yeah so for me to do that with their shirt and reveal them when they
46:09
weren't in that state because literally they were helping me in that moment would you hold this for me sure
46:16
right I like cut the best part of them and then used it against them and I I
46:23
didn't know any of that [Music] it's pretty incredible to think that
46:28
that's where you started doing that because you know I can imagine that there are a lot of women
46:34
who keep men off balance or who don't respect men or like men or have many
46:41
negative beliefs about them about men but would never go so far as to do something like that like to actively
46:48
like it's one thing to say something at a man like like um you know kind of you know to shame a man like in a checkout
46:54
line or something like that Supermarket or wherever it shows up right it's something else entirely to walk up to a
47:00
man and actually rip his shirt open it's a snap shirt so you're not ruining a shirt right but like there's another
47:05
thing to actually physically interact with a man and that way to sort of cross that boundary like that's a degree of
47:11
like I can't even fathom that happening now again it's at a party and stuff like
47:17
that and you know it's it's a kind of a it's kind of a different kind of environment than just doing it you know at the at the mall or something like
47:23
that like hey buddy you know very different but still that that you were that forward about it and and almost
47:30
Unapologetic and at the time Unapologetic right
47:37
and even after the third time you did it he stopped doing it but after the third time was there any feelings of remorse
47:43
like maybe I shouldn't have done that or was like yeah I do this to guys for fun
47:48
oh that was just three times at that point
47:54
you said what
48:05
I'm in a minute with that
48:13
um I mean I I have my first crush on a boy
48:21
when I was seven okay and
48:32
probably even younger my first like a real Crush would have been with my with my big brother you don't think of it as
48:38
a crush but you know my brother was 15 months older than me and I just wanted to be with him
48:44
I didn't I just wanted to follow around with the news there's this amazing space about him
48:51
even as a child I just even though he sometimes it was so cool to me I just
48:57
would always go back to wanting to follow him around and and you know I
49:02
wanted to play with Chris and um
49:08
and my you know my father my father adored me he wasn't around much
49:15
um but when he was he was he was so kind
49:21
you know like there are things I wanted to do like I wanted to learn cursive
49:26
and at school they said I wasn't old enough to learn cursor they wouldn't teach me
49:32
and so my dad sat down and taught me cursing
49:38
and um I think I I mean I just I just always
49:45
loved men I always loved boys I always would rather be with boys and with girls
49:53
and and I always had one girlfriend one best girlfriend
49:59
um but I I'd rather play with the boys you guys to wave
50:05
sometimes and um
50:10
but that feeling that way made me really
50:16
vulnerable and and also if you think of the time when I grew up right I was born in 1960
50:24
so I was becoming right so I was becoming a
50:32
a young woman at a time when when the old rules and stereotypes which
50:41
my mother was part of right a homemaker and uh and women's Liberation and
50:51
Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better which my mom danced around and sung in the kitchen
50:57
and uh the messages right to the message of
51:03
Barbie dolls and you can run a truck through her thighs so
51:11
yeah right yeah yeah introduce thigh gap to women and had us believe we're
51:17
supposed to have that and and and just this this message from my
51:24
mother who was so pissed at my father for not giving her the fairy tale life
51:30
she thought she was signing up for and her own
51:36
intellect that didn't
51:43
how women were thought of at the time do you know didn't have a full expression so she mostly hid it and was conniving
51:52
and and this this message that that really
51:58
as a woman you have to have a man who's your man where's your man you
52:06
don't what you don't have a man you've got to have a man Barbie's gotta
52:11
have a Ken and where's Skipper's boyfriend
52:16
who's skipper Skipper's by his little sister oh okay
52:22
Barbie had a Ken blonde Ken brunette Ken but she could pick her Ken before we had
52:30
to have a kitten so you have to have a man but don't ever need him
52:41
yes and make sure he knows you don't mean to him
52:48
yeah mission accomplished yes yes and but
52:55
the the the conflict right you gotta have one but never need him
53:01
and and then as I started studying then finding out and then would just throw it
53:08
they they would just throw the comment off they didn't know it was earth-shattering
53:14
to say something like well she didn't need it she didn't need me so I but for
53:20
someone who did it in direct conflict with what I was
53:26
taught and what so many women to the Sea are proving I think think that the less
53:32
I need you the more attractive I will be to you um
53:37
exactly so we we have my friend who use this works conflate we
53:45
have completed meeting and needy oh that's great yes that's great so
53:54
women are terrified of being perceived as needed being perceived as weak and
54:01
needy and so instead of addressing that like
54:07
we started asking men what what does meeting mean to you
54:16
and one man the way one man put it was maybe is when you can't handle the basic
54:24
components of life yes
54:29
yeah and that's completely different than never
54:36
needing something from another human being never needing help for example right or and it's the source
54:45
of as gets talked about in the Queen's code the source of women not asking for
54:51
help in a way that's dignified supportive empowering
54:57
um other people can win at providing it right because we don't ever want to need help we don't ask for help
55:03
in a timely way or with respect and then we end up needing to be saved because
55:11
we've got to know our head and then we're pissed at the lecture saving comes with which the queen codes illuminate
55:17
why the lecture um and and it just ends up
55:24
it just ends up making it worse right getting a lecture for needing to
55:29
be saved has us it reaffirms never needed me because they'll be attached
55:37
in instead of understanding really how huge the difference is and what it means
55:42
to a man who's instinctually always
55:47
exercising discipline about a limited amount of time and money and energy and
55:52
that is really invested in his plans and something that he's got enough to his
55:59
plan in order to keep someone who cares about from a big consequence
56:04
that yeah that's going to come with a lecture yes ask me sooner I could have planned
56:10
on this and I would have been happy to provide I didn't know any of that
56:15
sure I mean you know but but as Claudia illustrates in the Queen's code that
56:20
that inheritance and I think that's the that's the power of of Claudia as a
56:26
character is that she's talking about nine generations of inheritance about how men work that got lost in Myra's
56:34
generation who I assume is the baby boomer generation right that's sort of around that time roughly right like in
56:40
that in that you know she's probably born or born around the same time as you are somewhere somewhere in that range
56:45
right that there's this all this wisdom nine Generations is what like a couple hundred years 300 years maybe of
56:51
information about men it's even more than that's it Generations used to be measured in 25 years and Claudius
56:58
family's been at it for 500 years 500 years okay so here's foreign
57:05
so here's 500 years of knowledge about how men work that is the entire inheritance is just discarded by her
57:12
daughter like whatever I don't have any need or want for it and so it's not like
57:17
Allison Armstrong is Conjuring this stuff up out of nowhere like you've spent centuries yourself studying men
57:23
and women and you figured it out it's like no this inheritance this knowledge about men was there it was understood
57:28
how women can relate to men and how men can relate to women how men can relate to themselves that's a whole other thing
57:34
and it was just thrown out it was just thrown out in favor of um
57:39
I like how you said needing versus needy I like that distinction the one that I
57:45
that I talk a lot about is um equality versus sameness like that's another
57:51
that's another thing that gets conflated and then and then there's also um strong and independent versus soft
57:58
and self-sufficient and it's that it's that independent like what you're looking for is not a woman who's
58:03
independent doesn't need a man but she can take care of herself she's self-sufficient right and so I really
58:09
like that you added that third piece needy needing versus needy right because
58:14
there's there's a big difference for a man in there there's a huge difference in can I
58:22
I mean I've can I talk about the independence and self-sufficiency yeah please please
58:28
um my my mother used to say to me when I
58:34
was wanting to be married again so I got married
58:39
when I was 23 in and that was the man to whom I was with Melissa because he
58:46
didn't do anything husbands are supposed to do and is that is that because he actually didn't or that's because what you
58:52
thought you thought he did like Melissa Scott's doing a decent job but Melissa's just cutting him off of
58:58
the knees every chance she gets right well the important part of my sentence
59:03
is what I thought he should do that's what I yeah okay yeah so
59:11
he wasn't anything that I thought a husband would be and he wasn't that way
59:16
before we got married but I thought getting married would change him I thought that Minister had buried them
59:23
yeah it's amazing and he would change into a Heisman and after we got married and I told him
59:30
the light had come on in my car and it needed its oil changed and he said you should take it to Jiffy
59:36
Lube that was my first indication that no no no husbands take care of cars
59:44
that's what husbands do they take care of quotes yes it's it's written on the it's
59:51
written on the on the stone tablets of husbandry yeah and um so anyhow when I was wanting
1:00:00
to be married my mother said to me um well Allison you may have to give up
1:00:06
your precious self-sufficiency and your damn Independence
1:00:12
at least the two different concepts they they actually and they are in the
1:00:18
way that um when I created the course that at the time was called celebrating men in
1:00:23
marriage um because it was everything I'd learned from Men about marriage and and actually
1:00:29
really intelligent about marriage um in a way that women generally aren't
1:00:37
um because men take commitment very seriously very seriously very seriously
1:00:43
and and you know I'm a dictionary girl so as
1:00:48
that course was coming through again with all these thoughts that I
1:00:56
thought were my own um I looked up Independence in self-sufficiency
1:01:02
and and women want to be married but they want
1:01:08
to be independent but independent means free from the influence of another
1:01:15
good way to be married exactly and so that's why a man will think this woman
1:01:23
could be my wife she has all the qualities I'm looking for in my wife and then she tells them about something
1:01:30
she's decided and in her behind
1:01:35
they're not serious enough for him to have the right to an opinion let them Lona
1:01:43
vote so she just decided you know she's selling her house she's you know she
1:01:51
just decides stuff and um and to her he doesn't have the right to
1:01:58
say anything about that she doesn't have enough status that he deserves to have influence
1:02:05
and he she doesn't women don't know that when she does that she thinks oh my gosh
1:02:13
would she do that if we were men because to him it's not about
1:02:20
the right to influence to him it's about we're checking out sharing lives
1:02:27
together how do we do things how do we decide things how do we solve problems what are we doing we're upset I'm and
1:02:34
this is a this is meeting to the puzzle pieces fit together and that free from
1:02:41
influence here's the result oh my God yes I
1:02:49
marriage isn't about independence it's about you honor yourself but you're
1:02:55
not free from influence everything about your partner influences your life whether you like it yes yes
1:03:02
which is why I think people have very healthy reasons we're not getting married and
1:03:08
and then self-sufficiency this is one of the things that I
1:03:13
had interact with women they want a boyfriend they want they even say they want to be married
1:03:20
and they're and they have this value of self-sufficiency which self-sufficiency
1:03:26
is an instinctual value right if you can't
1:03:32
provide for yourself right if you can't handle the normal things in life by yourself you're gonna die
1:03:40
but it all depends on what you're up to in your life
1:03:45
right once you commit to something that's beyond an individual's ability to
1:03:52
create self-sufficiency is no longer valid
1:03:59
like no this and you guys know this you taught me this oh like
1:04:04
my brother my brother's this amazing organic farmer right he goes out to his field and he's got this thing that he
1:04:11
wants to create he starts working on it um he's trying to solve a problem and he
1:04:17
gets to a point where he goes oh this is a two-man job
1:04:22
and he just concludes that he doesn't he's not embarrassed or ashamed of
1:04:27
himself for not being able to do it it's a two-man job or this is going to take a
1:04:35
tin it's not there's no pride of self-sufficiency it's retaken on
1:04:40
something that's beyond my ability to do and this is my part and I need people
1:04:46
who are able to do these other parts including I'm not a good team leader I need someone to read this too
1:04:51
okay and so it's it's one of the things that I appreciate so much that I've
1:04:56
learned from that then it's it's just a fact right it's not a
1:05:05
judgment it's just a fact given what you're committed to and you know I'm
1:05:10
passionate about partnership and in our our course Lux which is
1:05:17
online starts out by saying most people aren't up to anything big enough in their life to require perch
1:05:24
and we do so good purpose keep our lives small enough we keep our
1:05:29
Ambitions small enough so that we can be self-sufficient
1:05:36
and it ends up being a cert going from a Bible imperative to Identity
1:05:44
and and so we'll keep limiting ourselves we will have an idea to take on something and oh but I couldn't do that
1:05:50
myself let me just killed it I can't do it myself and so
1:05:56
yes a certain level of Competency I would call it in the in the way that I have put it yeah instead of
1:06:02
self-sufficiency I would what I've said is as a because women are like oh men you know men don't like
1:06:09
strong women and like uh hello instinctually
1:06:16
he's looking he's going to partner with a woman he is looking for the strongest
1:06:23
most competent partner that he thinks he can attract and keep
1:06:35
who's strong and confident but left with I got nothing to give her right because
1:06:41
he's looking for what would she need from me right what can I contribute to her how
1:06:48
does she just need me to have a better life and meanwhile women are concealing
1:06:54
what it is that like I tease women okay you're so proud of it self-sufficient so
1:07:02
I want you to make a list of everything you do need a man for like if you rub
1:07:07
your own back can you hold yourself in your arms and
1:07:13
comfort you the way that a man can do I
1:07:19
mean you guys are awesome this came up about the Queen's code last week because there's a part in
1:07:25
the first couple chapters where Kimberly is insulted at an effort to be comforted
1:07:32
right and then even I didn't even notice this one of the participants pointed out
1:07:37
and then later in the same chapter Claudia is being comforted by Bert
1:07:43
and it had her realize that she doesn't let anybody comfort her and she really
1:07:50
would love to become burned and she'd like to ask her husband to come for her I mean geez talk about something that
1:07:57
changes the quality of your life comfort so
1:08:05
yes there are many things we can be self-sufficient at and there are so many things that we can't beat because they
1:08:12
come from another human being right I like that I'm not committed to the
1:08:19
word um self-sufficient I just like the alliteration with soft and self-sufficient but you're right what I'm trying to capture with that is this
1:08:25
idea of um of not needy right so sufficient meaning not needy but I like competent as well right because that's
1:08:33
that's true like we're not looking for women that are completely and totally self-sufficient because you know we as
1:08:38
men when we become Good Men We recognize that we're not self-sufficient either and that's a big transition for because
1:08:44
many men are in this Lone Wolf kind of mentality I have to do it all my own you
1:08:49
know no one's coming for me I gotta do it all and it's a big step for a man to get past that and recognize as you as
1:08:56
you so brilliantly said if you only take on things that you can tackle as an
1:09:01
individual you're going to live small but you have to be able to work and live
1:09:06
in teams and Community as a man because that's how you accomplish great things right and so you have to get past your
1:09:12
own desire for for Lone Wolf Independence as a man or self-sufficiency and reckon recognize that none of us are as strong as all of
1:09:20
us and that's a point that I try so hard to make to men because one of the things
1:09:25
that I experience is that there are so many men in this in the men's movement in particular that are like my version
1:09:32
of being a man is the only way to be a man and that's that's objectively not
1:09:37
true and you can even see it in like the movie The Lord of the the Lord of the Rings right Aragorn is nothing like
1:09:43
Gimli is nothing like Legolas there's nothing like Frodo is nothing like Gandalf these men are not similar but
1:09:48
you recognize them all as men recognize them all as part of a team why why are all these kinds of men
1:09:55
different kinds of band and all equally valid men but all men have to look like you Mr content creator how does that
1:10:02
work and so and so I try to encourage men to get to that point where you're
1:10:09
um it's interdependence right dependence to Independence to interdependence where
1:10:14
you recognize what your limitations as a man are and you recognize that that guy doesn't have the same limitations but he has his
1:10:21
own and the two of you together can do much more and that you tie that also into partnership is very powerful
1:10:28
because it's not something like to ask women today what do you need a man for SNAP answer nothing
1:10:35
right you know and it's like it's not without even hesitation right your your face right there shows it right it's
1:10:41
like well is that true can we dig into that notion that you need a man for nothing because I don't
1:10:47
know that and maybe you said this to me um but I certainly heard it recently it said
1:10:53
um men have never said we don't need women they're they're you know there's a small
1:10:58
segment of men out there called mgtow men going their own way that say that but it's a but it's very small and
1:11:03
that's that Community has its own problems um but like that women have developed this
1:11:09
belief that they don't need men when men have never developed like I say like without women it's pointless right what
1:11:16
are we doing just go back and get in the cave like Bert says that like men would be content of caves and campfires
1:11:23
without women and it's true right so so I appreciate you're trying to break down uh using using the queen's code
1:11:30
especially this notion that women don't need men and and getting them to ask
1:11:36
like what do you think you might actually need a man for yeah
1:11:42
a night ago on and on just on that subject and um
1:11:51
you know you've met Dan who's been in his space he he says hello by the way
1:11:58
um yeah and
1:12:04
I didn't know until I moved here a year ago how
1:12:10
small my life had become living alone in
1:12:15
that huge house yeah right in the country um
1:12:22
and I didn't I didn't realize I was shooting too
1:12:28
until until I moved here and I never thought I would leave my house in the
1:12:34
country especially if you had to move to a city even though you know
1:12:39
huge city has 16 000 people so it's almost got a stoplight
1:12:47
he has many stoplights and and I have 34 miles from the stock right down upside
1:12:53
down at 295 people right so um but I got to experience
1:13:00
that um and as you know we don't live together Dan and I
1:13:07
um but I I live in this circle of his
1:13:12
protection yes he's kind of live together but not
1:13:17
really live together yeah I know what you mean well I think living together is full of
1:13:23
Hazards and that is one of the things I didn't want to do it was on my list if I
1:13:29
was going to be in a relationship again not attached to being married or living
1:13:34
together full-time and and so having my little house on his property in and
1:13:43
you've actually stayed in this house before it was mine yeah um I'm in his circle of protection and I I call him
1:13:50
the Lord of The Manor sometimes and but it's it's palpable
1:13:56
it's it's palpable because he's right there and my encounters with
1:14:05
my encounters with Bears last year um
1:14:10
the one trying to break down the shutter to get into the kitchen because I was cooking
1:14:16
um cooking is so good it attracts bears hey is it he was a little guy but he
1:14:25
seems like you know when standing up can reach taller than I am seems really big and
1:14:32
um that is pretty big bear yeah yeah so so the you know whether it's Critters
1:14:39
and um this year it's been raccoons five raccoons so far
1:14:45
um that we've trapped by raccoons some of them timid and some of them snarling and
1:14:52
terrifying um but just who I can be because I feel safe
1:15:00
and it's one of the things that um it towards the end of our understanding
1:15:07
women course um men who watch it can sue it they can see the the and get it this early
1:15:16
um women responding to this assertion that I've made that it doesn't matter
1:15:23
our sexuality it doesn't matter our competency instinctually
1:15:32
there isn't anything including a gun because after great guy
1:15:37
great guy I went and got one got to shoot it right um
1:15:42
nothing has us feel safe from an instinctual
1:15:49
vibration able to think thoughts and not others
1:15:56
the whole capacities that come from feeling truly safe nothing contributes
1:16:02
to that the same way as one man that you know is for you
1:16:08
but he's got you yes nothing and I I've asked this of thousands of women
1:16:15
you know picture how how you breathe what you think how you feel in your body
1:16:21
in the presence of a man you know is for you they're present to that okay now how
1:16:29
many women does it take to give you the same feeling and I
1:16:35
watched thousands of women thinking thinking like okay two five ten
1:16:43
under 500 until finally they all just shaking
1:16:49
their heads there's no numbers [Music]
1:16:56
and talk about interdependence right
1:17:02
um that we can contribute that to each other it doesn't have to be a romantic
1:17:07
relationship it doesn't have to be a sexual relationship it doesn't even have to be a committed relationship
1:17:14
it can it can be how you're being with me sitting next to me on a plane
1:17:20
like this this young man we were we were chatting about a bunch of stuff and then we said
1:17:26
um excuse me I have to close my eyes and take a nap now but I'll be back
1:17:33
that's cute and you leaned against the side of the plane and you closed his
1:17:39
eyes and you went to sleep and I just thought where did he find that
1:17:44
how was he woke up I asked him did you get that from to reassure me you're
1:17:50
still here you'll be back I am safe where did you get that from which led to a whole other conversation about his
1:17:57
mother his mother taught him oh my gosh um and and if you if you reverse it it's
1:18:05
the same thing I if I ever had one another career it'll be in in customer service teaching customer service to men
1:18:13
and having single Focus attention that you have on the customer in front of you if you just take a moment and say I'll
1:18:21
be with you with her right just like I'll be with
1:18:28
you next because we're standing in the line and the man has not acknowledged our presence we're gonna keep them in
1:18:34
attack he doesn't even know I'm here I'm gonna die and we get tense and then
1:18:40
by the time we get we start making [ __ ] comments and then
1:18:45
taking so long it's all out of fear it doesn't sound like fear but it's all out
1:18:50
of fear we're just one minute I see you I see you I'll be with you as soon as
1:18:57
I'm done here right it's the same effect as being able
1:19:03
to take a number and you see that that actually going by the numbers
1:19:08
at random numbers yeah yeah you wanted to say something
1:19:14
no this I mean this is very helpful
1:19:20
um because that's one of and I want to dive into
1:19:26
all of these topics and continue on our off-road Adventure but I told myself we were going to talk about the Queen's
1:19:31
good because we could talk about a thousand other things but I do want to bring it back to the to the book and the
1:19:37
audiobook and that I think um to go all the way back to my story for reading the
1:19:43
Queen's code is that I discovered keys to the kingdom and I don't know how I found it on Amazon I was overseas at
1:19:51
the time I was within 2018 maybe two late 2017 something like that and I read
1:19:57
the keys to the kingdom first because I read it was the first book so I'll read the first book in the series right and
1:20:04
um and I recognized just how true and real the
1:20:10
stages of development in a man's life are because I was on my big four-year overseas travel Adventure I was in some
1:20:17
sort of night stage I guess right like I was out slaying slaying dragons right and I was like and and that provided
1:20:24
such an incredible piece to me of of um peace p-i-e-c-e and peace p-e-a-c-e
1:20:30
right at the same time to recognize that no one had ever told me about the
1:20:36
various stages of life that I would go through as a man and I felt that I was doing something completely you know off
1:20:43
the main off the beaten path you know unusual irregular especially compared to all my friends who had settled down and
1:20:49
all that stuff but they had never really had much of a night phase and here I was trusting my own instinct to say there's
1:20:56
something unfinished in myself that I have to go do and so when I read that and recognizing excuse me and
1:21:04
recognizing that I knew intuitively that as soon as I was done doing that then I would be ready to
1:21:11
begin thinking about a wife and kids but this had to be done first right and and
1:21:16
like no one had ever given me that knowledge before but I knew it I knew it in my gut and I trusted it and I gave up
1:21:23
an entire life you know in the United States and in San Francisco and California I say I pushed all in put it
1:21:28
all on the table and said I'm going and I did it and that was my preparation for being able to have something to offer to
1:21:34
a woman later in my life and I knew that and then the keys to the kingdom you lay that out I was like I'm looking at my
1:21:41
life reflected in a mirror no yeah and there's a lot going there's a lot going on in that book
1:21:47
um but that's that's really what I took away I remember where that landed in my chest I was like oh I'm doing exactly
1:21:53
what I'm supposed to be doing hallelujah praise God for that right right
1:21:59
and so it was it was right after that like as soon as I finished keys to the kingdom I picked up the Queen's code
1:22:06
and I I'll never forget the experience of reading that book for the first time
1:22:13
on Unforgettable to see to to learn so
1:22:18
much about myself but to feel so understood to feel so completely understood by a woman uh and and to see
1:22:27
so many things like the way that you read the men in the audiobook now did you nail all of it like I'm listening to
1:22:32
you you know saying Bert and Jack and Raul and and their inflection and the
1:22:38
tone of voice and the way that the men say the things they're saying like for example when when Kimberly I don't know
1:22:44
it's kind of spoiler alert whatever so when when Kimberly says to Jack like you know I'd like for you to be my lover and
1:22:50
Jack's like no like not her I was like oh because I was
1:22:56
I was like oh I felt that in my own body when she said that like oh no right and
1:23:03
and I remember that whole experience of and Scott you know having been many of
1:23:10
those different men and so I remember when I read the book The First Time
1:23:15
that not only were the things that Claudia was teaching about men true right like she can say the things but
1:23:23
then the way that all the men Illustrated and embody the truth of them it was just incredibly powerful
1:23:30
experience that showed me a bunch of things all at once it showed me that um
1:23:35
it taught me about myself because I didn't have language to describe a lot of different aspects of myself that I
1:23:42
felt were true like the way that um the way that a a man is recharged around a
1:23:48
contented woman like I was almost in tears when I read that because I realized how rarely I had experienced it
1:23:54
and how true it was right so it showed me these things about myself it showed
1:23:59
me that men could be understood by women that we're not it's not some some dense
1:24:07
fog that's impossible to see through and that men and women can actually relearn
1:24:12
and it is relearn how to relate to each other and it was this powerfully transformative experience for me that
1:24:18
planted a seed in my mind that has taken shape over the past four years and and deeply informs what we've talked about
1:24:24
which is the great reconciliation and so now I find myself recommending the book regularly like several times
1:24:32
several times a week because it's had that much of an impact on my life as saying no we can relearn how to relate
1:24:40
to each other as men and women and and there's a way that we can start that process at minimum if not completed and
1:24:46
it's in the Queen's code which is a big thing it's a big thing to say
1:24:52
months thank you
1:25:09
um I think before we started recording and mentioned
1:25:16
um the acknowledgment of the in the book and yes my having added the part
1:25:22
specifically about the audiobook and um
1:25:31
it may sound strange but I am I feel blessed by
1:25:39
because of Greg having
1:25:44
across the bill passed died left me without taking any of his stuff
1:25:56
um could you have an interesting update for you and one of the things that I find uh
1:26:01
oh wow you have a film and for the Renaissance they've been
1:26:09
in his in his uh Porsche right um
1:26:18
because of his passing and because of Mike finally realizing I did what a
1:26:27
romantic relationship again um because for a long time I was like no I know how much work they take right it
1:26:34
takes so much work to be brilliant and I'm not going to have one that isn't brilliant so I don't know if I want to do this at all and then having that Dan
1:26:43
two years ago and encountering someone with whom it's worth it
1:26:50
right it's it's still work it's still everything I knew it would be
1:26:56
um yet the benefits are astonishing to me and and part of it is that conversation
1:27:04
we were having before great Greg was self-sufficient as an identity
1:27:13
oh interesting yes and and so
1:27:18
our partnership was limited because most of the things that I
1:27:24
offered in order to be of help in order to be useful in order to have something
1:27:31
go faster easier most of what I offered was taken as an insult
1:27:38
um yeah and so over the years I offered
1:27:43
less and less and less and less because it hurts to be interacted with that way
1:27:49
no he not no thank you no thanks for offering no this isn't it
1:27:57
no maybe another time just no and this page to it is
1:28:04
and in and I didn't know how much Dan I didn't
1:28:11
know how much Greg had had imprinted me like he he was the man that I had a
1:28:18
long-term relationship with you know almost 30 years together and even though I've been married before my first
1:28:25
husband and I spent almost retirement we were the picture of Independence
1:28:31
and so being with Ian who's a very different person in that
1:28:38
he's always played team sports right since he was four years old hockey
1:28:45
right yeah hockey's play team sports and then coached you know many many years
1:28:52
coaching hockey and and it's so distinct for him what team
1:28:59
is and we're gonna have a name for our team we were like headstrong
1:29:09
yes yes I'm strong laughs
1:29:19
but was this this thing it's really beautiful that I didn't
1:29:24
get to experience before where he he is known less by his admiration of
1:29:32
my strengths just as I am no less by my admiration
1:29:38
case yes and so you know he'll come along and
1:29:44
goes okay so what what's the engineer come up with how are we going to do this
1:29:51
it's great right you're the engineer and but then he'll tease me about being
1:29:57
um vertically challenged right
1:30:03
but then I'll tease him back we were walking down the sidewalk and there's an
1:30:08
overhanging tree and I walked right under it and he had to duck I said now who's vertically challenged
1:30:15
he remembers that one yeah
1:30:21
that's amazing yeah buddy um the things that we can do together
1:30:29
like learning to sail right last year learning to sail together hugely
1:30:35
challenging and he's amazing on the helm
1:30:40
right he's just cool as a cucumber and just awesome on the home I don't like
1:30:46
being on them but I'm a monkey right set me up for Mast
1:30:52
the under sale I'm a happy camper right I'm just like crazy like should we be
1:30:58
very agile and you know this little mountain goat on the boat and one line for yourself and one lane for the boat
1:31:05
oh wow oh so much fun right it's amazing
1:31:10
yeah and and so much fun because there's so little
1:31:17
we're just not proving to each other you know we're just not presenting each
1:31:23
other and although there's this funny thing I um
1:31:29
well it goes back to the independency but let me finish what I was saying so what I'm grateful to for the Queen's
1:31:35
code is I is I've had to relearn you know I I had to re-learn applied to a very
1:31:45
different human being what does it look like for him and just like you were talking about all
1:31:52
the characters are unique and to themselves as are all men there's no one way to be a man and yet there are these
1:32:01
intrinsic qualities that are so beautiful if you can see them and learn how to
1:32:08
work with them and if you
1:32:13
if you can't they seem like they're the reason why I can't get what I need from you
1:32:21
mm-hmm right this it seem like obstacles instead of instead of strengths and um
1:32:30
and I'm I love that you get to experience the Queen's code from the
1:32:36
intent in my in my intent of women getting to see men's motivations and how
1:32:43
beautiful they are and because of single Focus for example the effects of
1:32:49
testosterone on the brain things have to be worked with in a certain way or you can't get to the beauty
1:32:55
and the same is true for women right if women have such beauty but if
1:33:02
men don't know how much our safety depends on feeling connected and every time you focus on something else we feel
1:33:09
disconnected and lost and then we get afraid and we do all kinds of
1:33:15
ugly things um like be critical you know the first time
1:33:22
I was critical of damn it I was trying not to be but I was really afraid and we
1:33:27
just met yeah and he's like uh
1:33:33
felt like criticism and I stopped taking that a long time ago yeah like you told me that story that was fun
1:33:41
um yeah and then I burst into tears that I criticized him be Allison Armstrong
1:33:47
and just criticized a man and and then I just I was afraid I just confessed I was
1:33:54
afraid right and then he was tapping his steering wheel because he was driving he was having and she sounds like that
1:34:00
she's cute and she sounds like that she's scared she sounds like what she's doing he was memorizing he was learning
1:34:08
me because okay so how about if that happens again I'll remember that you're
1:34:15
scared and and then I'll ask what's scaring you
1:34:21
how about that that sounds good first deal right we're
1:34:26
gonna first deal just a few hours into this relationship and then I said well
1:34:32
yeah but as quick as I can already tell you or you will probably already figure out figured out the things that scare me
1:34:41
but if you want to ask that's fine and then I thought a second I said but how about I just come right out and say I'm
1:34:48
scared oh that's good right yeah
1:34:55
and then and it has been a passenger in a car right it's scary to be a passenger in a car
1:35:02
and in Colorado
1:35:07
yeah but it was great because a few months later I was trying to figure out how to ask him to not follow the car in
1:35:15
front of us so closely even though it'd be a normal place to follow in City driving and they're not
1:35:21
used to City driving and have a thing about tailgating and I was trying to figure out a nice way to ask that and
1:35:27
then I remembered and I said it's scaring me that you're so close to that car
1:35:33
let me just amazing so simple so simple right just
1:35:40
stick with the truth but we're trying to you know it's a definition of strategy
1:35:46
um to move yourself into the best possible position before engaging with
1:35:51
the Enemy oh yeah
1:35:56
right and that's how we are with each other we're trying to move ourselves into a position where we don't reveal
1:36:02
any weaknesses where we don't reveal any dependency where we don't feel anything
1:36:08
that we need which equals a weak a weakness right and so much of the Queen's code is
1:36:15
is just showing that none of these are weaknesses they're they're just part of
1:36:21
being human and how we reveal them to each other makes all the difference in how the other person can respond like in
1:36:28
that scene that you spoiler alerted you know Jack's reaction and then
1:36:34
got out of his reaction long enough to look over at Kimberly
1:36:40
Kimberly was being yes which is so much a part of the message that is not
1:36:48
stating it's how we're being with each other is so much more important than how
1:36:54
we put this right yes women are always asking me how do I say it and the Queen's code was
1:37:02
about I knew I could teach women how to speak the language of humans but if the
1:37:08
being the beingness of the woman isn't congruent
1:37:13
if she hasn't transformed her relationship to being provided for her relationship
1:37:20
to help to accomplish something bigger than herself her relationship to saving
1:37:27
her relationship like if she is a transformed her relationship to that even having the words it's not going to
1:37:34
work because it's people who were beating is louder than everything
1:37:43
it's I mean that's that's what's behind The Vow
1:37:48
right the the you know I vow to give up the right to castrate men forever it's that if you take on the teachings of the
1:37:56
Queen's code you can put them into your head you know and you can express them from your mouth but if the person who's doing
1:38:03
that if the woman who's doing that hasn't had a true change of heart like a
1:38:09
real trans a real commitment to transform her way of being two men
1:38:15
right then it's just going to create destruction and you illustrate that so
1:38:21
clearly through the through the Melissa scene with Scott it's crushing it's it's
1:38:26
crushing like to feel I I think you know I think um
1:38:32
I think Scott's reaction in that scene is is probably mild compared to what
1:38:37
would happen to a lot of men right like he's he clearly loves her a lot to
1:38:43
respond in that way versus just to walk out the door for example he's like okay right and and this is again that's the
1:38:52
power that's the power of the book and that that my experience as a man reading it
1:38:57
and to to learn the hero's language was obviously not going to give away um
1:39:03
and to to know intuitively in my own minds and in my own heart in my own body that yes those are the words
1:39:10
like those are the words that that that activate me and call me to attention and can truly bring out the best in me and
1:39:19
can also be used against me because I want to give my strength away as a man I've worked hard to cultivate
1:39:25
my strength as a man it's a it's a multi-decades-long project for a man to
1:39:30
get to a point in his life where he truly has the ability to offer himself like I offer myself to you partner or
1:39:38
you friend or who or whoever right and and here are the keys particularly like a wife right
1:39:44
you know fiance wife here are the keys to how to bring forth the best in me and
1:39:49
that those same keys can be used to absolutely bring out the worst right or or to destroy
1:39:57
you have to have a train a change of heart as a woman and how you in terms of how you relate to men in order to take
1:40:04
responsibility for those and then you really get to see men shine but it costs you something as a woman
1:40:11
you can't get it for free and that's that's the power of that vow it's like how how bad do you want that
1:40:18
you know how much how much of yourself are you willing to give to get something from a man that you could never give
1:40:25
yourself and that's where the transformation comes in that that commitment and it's
1:40:30
so inspiring to me to know that there are so many women that are willing to make that commitment
1:40:35
because you know the dialogues almost seems to be women who would never be willing to make that commitment but I
1:40:40
know for a fact millions of women they're like you know we're over we're over this independent self-sufficient thing
1:40:47
those guys over there you know they do things differently over there maybe we have something to learn from them and
1:40:52
and maybe they have something to learn from us let's give that a shot foreign
1:41:08
you said there's so many things that it sparked in me um
1:41:19
further along in the book which you referred to or Bert is trying to unwind
1:41:25
what's happening to Claudia and her help yeah he was really worried about her and
1:41:30
then he finally pinpoints it and and it's
1:41:36
it's the first time that this concept of accountability shows up
1:41:41
and it's so important and it's um
1:41:46
it's one of the most underestimated contexts
1:41:52
and um and one of the ways that women
1:41:59
unconsciously reduce men um I interacted with an organization and
1:42:05
that their job is transformation that's the business is transformation and the
1:42:11
founder um the founder died and his wife took over and when I went to be a speaker
1:42:18
there I was so saddened because I watched this
1:42:24
crew of women who were all in the leadership positions interacting with
1:42:31
men as helpers
1:42:37
yeah and and they didn't even know they didn't even know how much they were
1:42:42
emasculating these amazing men around them who if they just released the
1:42:48
accountability to that expertise instead of
1:42:53
managing and micromanaging everything like these were these guys are really
1:42:59
good helpers but they love very much they're like good dogs
1:43:05
do you know right yeah and
1:43:11
um in a course that we haven't gotten to have since the beginning of covet covered the answer partnership
1:43:16
accountability is the is if it's the first Topic in the context of
1:43:21
partnership and and I make fun of us that accountability
1:43:28
has become um there's a lot of status associated
1:43:34
with accountability and that the more that you're quote in charge of the more important you are and
1:43:42
that one of the things that's wearing women out is we will make ourselves accountable for anything and everything
1:43:50
and we don't stop and think is this my part
1:43:56
and and we're just we're just merely we don't even want to we just really
1:44:02
really willing to be accountable because you're afraid of what will happen if we're not we don't know that maybe two
1:44:08
steps behind us or someone for whom that would be privileged to the accountant
1:44:13
and it's one of the things that women don't know about men that that language
1:44:19
would do me that honor of being my wife would you do me the honor of marrying me
1:44:25
that he's asking to be accountable for taking care of her in certain ways
1:44:33
and and Melissa interacting with Scott and
1:44:39
the Queen's code she has no idea where she holds himself accountable for
1:44:46
um with his children with her with all the
1:44:52
people that worked for the mentors to be successful in their own careers like it's he is a huge capacity
1:44:59
and all she sees is he doesn't take out the damn trash yes
1:45:06
yeah and it um I asked the first time I led the dancer partnership and we were talking
1:45:13
about I call them accountability
1:45:20
okay [Laughter]
1:45:26
and and I just have this way of putting things Allison it's so good
1:45:31
I try to make things memorable right you succeed [ __ ] hours pumpkin hours
1:45:36
right yes dessert dessert pumpkin hours all that it's like yeah
1:45:43
um maybe that's my contribution to the
1:45:50
Queen's code to the movie um I think there's more than that so I
1:45:55
so I asked I'd say I'm receptive and obedient that those are my star qualities
1:46:03
um to all the things that are wanting to get through um but if I asked this group as the men in
1:46:11
the group like to what's it like for you for women to keep taking all the
1:46:18
accountabilities and leaving nothing for you at most at most they want your help
1:46:24
but they'll never ask you to be accountable or entrust you with accountability and
1:46:31
um this one man stood up he was probably in his 50s and he said
1:46:36
it's like training for something your entire life and then not be allowed to do
1:46:43
um that's right yeah it's what you said earlier right like this
1:46:51
um how you've known yourself to be all your entire life but no one calls you right
1:46:57
you've developed your strength that's so much what being a knight is about is actually
1:47:04
um developing and testing developing and testing developing and testing how good
1:47:09
am I I want to be good at that now how good am I yeah how good am I now how come right and it's it's awesome right
1:47:17
and then they have to put yourself to the test of all these things then being a prince you could say is okay now now
1:47:24
how am I going to use this to build something yes all these things that I've had
1:47:29
created in myself so yes accountability I imagine
1:47:36
accountability is going to show up in the third book it's about doing just arrived at near
1:47:44
the end of the Queen's private and it's it's huge it's huge
1:47:51
um one of the things you said is that the power and possibilities
1:47:58
of a partnership a determined by what each of the partners are being
1:48:04
accountable for being this women's
1:48:11
say that one more time just to make sure yeah that's yeah so I I like what
1:48:18
they're being accountable for say say that all again if if you don't mind the power and possibilities of a partnership
1:48:25
are determined by what each of the partners are being accountable
1:48:31
for being listening and speaking yes okay yes yeah including being
1:48:40
accountable for letting another person be accountable [Laughter]
1:48:45
yes to let you do your part to entrust you
1:48:52
to do the support you do in your part and it's your part this is this is massive
1:48:58
because I I don't want to one of the things that I run into writing about man
1:49:03
is I don't want to oversell men because I believe in the best of men but a lot of men really need to learn
1:49:09
accountability like that's a lesson that a lot of men and that's part of what the Renaissance of men is about that's part of what the men's movement about is
1:49:15
about generally is no man you like individual man you need to begin being
1:49:20
accountable for even more things than you're already accountable for the small the the very small life that you're
1:49:26
accountable for you can be much more accountable and take it and you can bear that weight of it and so I think that
1:49:33
there's been a week and I know that there's been a weakening of going going on of men that has forced women to take
1:49:38
on accountability in response and and I would I would say this is these are the result of societal forces that you and I
1:49:45
could spend a lot of time unpacking like I don't think it's all personal I think we're caught up in some some historical
1:49:50
flows that we're kind of fighting against the street well let's we'll just we'll got the thinking the thinking cap
1:49:56
on what can I say one thing about it because it's interesting yes yes you can what's that
1:50:02
integral to what the Queen's code is about because as women disempower men
1:50:11
yes we weaken you yes and then we we feel the weakness in
1:50:19
you yes and part of feeling that weakness makes us feel safer now you can't hurt
1:50:25
me yes but the other part of that weakness
1:50:30
has us take over yes
1:50:36
again to make us ourselves feel safe it's all about feeling safe so we disempower you to feel safe but then
1:50:42
because we've disempowered you we have to fill in and take over to have ourselves feel safe which the stepping
1:50:50
in and taking over also is a massive mm-hmm it makes it worse withholding
1:50:55
accountability is one of the biggest ways that women emasculate men or that any men are masquerade each other
1:51:02
right or even themselves so so this thing this spiraled down
1:51:10
right and in our work on partnership I start with accountability and we start
1:51:17
with the first person to become a partner of is yourself
1:51:23
and huge yeah and where I start with with accountability which is one of the
1:51:30
what I call a 14 extraordinary choices also known as 14 elements in Partnership
1:51:37
is actually starting with getting clear about what you're unwilling to be held
1:51:44
to account for
1:51:49
amazing 14 things that all have to happen simultaneously we talked we touched on
1:51:55
this in our last conversation yes yes okay and they're each Radioactive
1:52:00
but but here's the thing that related to the Queen's code that I would be thrilled for men to do
1:52:10
because what happens is women are trying to hold men to account
1:52:15
for acting like women the perfect person the perfect woman
1:52:22
and I'm terrible being that you're terrible peanut but this is what happens we're trying to hold you to account for
1:52:29
acting like a woman and you refuse to be held to account for acting like a woman which has women
1:52:35
think you refuse to be accountable for anything
1:52:42
yes it's too subtle it's too subtle women don't get it when a woman when a
1:52:47
man's like no you can't count on me for that well then I can't count on you for anything
1:52:53
instead of quit trying to count on me to act like a woman and you'll find out
1:52:59
what you can count on which the Queen's code is about what women can count on men four especially
1:53:09
when we stop trying to hold you to account for what you can't be counted on for yes which is doing what a woman would do
1:53:17
yes yeah but as long as we're down your throat about you're supposed to see what
1:53:23
I see and do what I would do and do it perfectly we can't ever see how much men
1:53:29
love to be count onable and for the things that men are count onable as for men
1:53:37
as a man or even individually like yes like when
1:53:43
so Greg would do this thing where he would figure out how far I was gonna go
1:53:48
and then he would make sure my car had enough gas to get there and back so he monitored my gas
1:53:56
tank imagine 20 years of this
1:54:02
sure okay and at one point I asked him I said I love that I don't ever have to
1:54:07
worry about gas but I don't ever have to put gas in my tank how would you like me to appreciate you for that
1:54:15
and his response took my breath away he said if you took that for granted it would
1:54:23
tell me that you know who I am [Music]
1:54:31
it opened up this whole other area of there are things appreciate about people
1:54:39
and it's actually insulting the way that we appreciate it oh you're such a wonderful man
1:54:45
no I'm a man yes
1:54:50
don't you get that like there's there's this insult that in what we won't take
1:54:57
for granted what we won't count on you for now do I think we don't need to appreciate things no I got a whole thing
1:55:04
on that appreciation's so important but someone's currency of appreciation matters and there are things that where
1:55:14
we're insulted and I've experienced it myself like that you think you can't count on me for that and make such a big
1:55:19
deal out of it is insulting to me yes
1:55:25
yes I can do much more than just that yes and so that sort of thinks for men to
1:55:32
own is this is what you can count on me for and if you just tell them you find
1:55:38
it then I'll know you know who I am and that's respect
1:55:44
it would be extra on top of what you can tell and this is the minimum this is how to
1:55:51
appreciate you for it mm-hmm right and then as one man said don't ask me for
1:55:58
what I can't provide yeah ask me for what I can provide and I'll give you all I've got
1:56:04
so women keep asking men to provide being a woman like Jack starts out in
1:56:10
the very first chapter women these days to be a man and a woman to be their
1:56:18
boyfriend and their girlfriend how come they don't how it doesn't work that way
1:56:23
and Men try that that's the thing though is that I'm glad that you mentioned that because some men do accept
1:56:28
accountability for being like a woman and it weakens it weakens men they try like me I tried that for many years and
1:56:36
women don't actually like it right that's the thing it's like okay I'll give you the thing that you that you want and you hate us and so I can't I
1:56:43
can't win right it's really tough and I do want to I want to I want to stay on that for just a second because there's
1:56:49
well there's a tendency in a lot of men in the men's movement to look at guys who act like that and and judge them
1:56:55
very harshly and there's a there's a lot of that and there's a lot of the ways that men can be cruel and judgmental to
1:57:01
each other right but I like the way that you frame it it's that these men are being accountable for the things that
1:57:07
the women in their lives are holding them accountable for and so they're actually being accountable but in this
1:57:13
inverse upside down kind of way it's not that they're unaccountable they're doing the best they can with the source that
1:57:19
they feel is authoritative right unfortunately which needs to change that's a whole thing but they're they're
1:57:25
they're actually being accountable now there are some men that are not being accountable for anything and that's a separate conversation but there are a
1:57:32
lot of men out there that are trying to be the safe you know nice you know
1:57:37
girlfriend kind of boyfriend like they're trying to do that because they think it's right and they're being
1:57:42
accountable for it it just doesn't work and and to be able to see that to make
1:57:47
that discernment and say this man is actually trying the thing and he's succeeding he's succeeding at the wrong
1:57:53
thing but he's trying right and and to ease up on some of those guys and to be
1:57:58
able to see them more clearly oh boy you just said so much
1:58:05
[Laughter]
1:58:15
sorry there's like 10 similar wrestlers trying to get to the door at the same time
1:58:21
that's how I describe my brains all little kids trying to get off the bus at the same time that's so funny that's
1:58:27
really funny so okay so I'm I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
1:58:34
start with this part um there's a man his name is Curtis who
1:58:40
volunteered um and got trained to teach her material and he volunteered in the understanding
1:58:46
women course um I think 13 times was the last time that I knew wow and yeah and
1:58:55
I noticed in the last few times that I was around him that
1:59:00
she had changed in not a good way and that my sense of him was that he was a
1:59:09
volcano about to explode and
1:59:14
I had the kind of relationship with him that I could talk to him about it and Curtis what is this
1:59:21
and what it and it changed how I led that course because what he said was
1:59:28
well after being at this course and finding out how much safety matters to Bringing
1:59:34
out the best in women I have taken on accountability for making women feel
1:59:41
safe yep yep and and I could see I mean it was just like
1:59:49
right that him taking on accountability for making women feel safe he was
1:59:55
literally suppressing his own self-expression yes he wasn't telling
2:00:01
his truth he wasn't being his truth yes and that's
2:00:06
that was this volcano that was building them and and I got it and I for anyone if you did
2:00:15
understand a woman online course which is 11 hours of life changing
2:00:20
you'll see that I never say that anymore and I even mourn the men do not take on
2:00:26
making a woman feel safe I know it hurts you how scared we are I know you never
2:00:32
want us to be scared but don't make yourself accountable for making women
2:00:37
feel safe because you can't make women feel safe at the most you can help a woman to feel
2:00:45
safe But ultimately it's up to her to choose
2:00:51
because of an instinctual standpoint there's never safe enough just like as a as a man you've never
2:00:57
produced too much there's no Instinct that kicks in okay I've produced enough no get out there and hunt again and
2:01:03
again and again right and for us we're never safe enough we have to consciously
2:01:09
override our own instincts and decide I'm safe enough and men can help us to feel safe but you
2:01:17
can't make us feel safe and when finding out all the whackadoodle behaviors that
2:01:22
come from women not feeling safe it has you want to be able to make us feel safe
2:01:28
is that because you love the beauty of women and anything you can do to get it including you know just listen and
2:01:36
respond like a girlfriend would instead of saying that's a crock of [ __ ] you have a nail in your forehead
2:01:43
yes he is about the nail darling yes so it's
2:01:52
it's under used us to be into what's going to be attractive to me what's going to be
2:01:59
necessary to me is if you act like this but unfortunately the decision to do
2:02:06
that and then a man is suppressing his own truth which is the source of your strength
2:02:11
that's perceived by a woman as a weakness and you'll be our best friend but we never want to have sex with you
2:02:17
yes yes yes yes yes in order to respond
2:02:23
sexually to the perception of strength and a man standing up for himself
2:02:30
and if you can stand up for yourself early and maybe quiet more quietly so it
2:02:37
doesn't scare the crap out of us then we can just perceive the strength in it and think you're so hot instead of betrayed
2:02:45
betray betrayed the trade betray yourself and then the volcano experience and then and and that is so threatening
2:02:52
right you're gonna get a fight fight or freeze response which are mastery
2:02:59
and the investigation comes in every one of those responses so the being true to yourself from the
2:03:06
very beginning it goes back to this okay so if I was being true to myself what
2:03:12
would I be count on a book for and what would I allow other people to
2:03:18
hold me to account for in fact if they did hold me to account that would tell me they knew know who I am it would be
2:03:25
respect to hold me to account for that because I am choosing to be a coming
2:03:31
and telling that truth including and these are the things you can't count on
2:03:38
even if you think a better man would be count on a before it it's not true for you
2:03:48
I'm I'm I mean I hope all the guys are listening right this is not the message that's delivered to many men or that
2:03:54
many men receive right many men receive the message right fully or wrong and I
2:04:00
think it's objectively true that you should receive this message that you are responsible men and I think this is this is out there in culture you as men are
2:04:07
dangerous and you are responsible for making women feel safe and in order to
2:04:13
do that you have to declaw and defang yourself and remove remove any notion of
2:04:19
your strength at all and as soon as you do that women will feel safe and then they will want you
2:04:25
right and I can't I can't tell you how hard I did that I can't tell you the
2:04:31
number of times I had women say will you're a beautiful man and then completely and then completely
2:04:36
ignore me right like I did I'm doing all the things and it's not it's not getting
2:04:42
it's not getting the response that I was told I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a man and it's not getting the
2:04:48
response that I was told I was gonna get yes right and I'm very I'm very fortunate that I came for myself right
2:04:55
and I had that I had the opportunity to meet men who sent me another Direction who sent me in the direction of things
2:05:01
that I had essentially shamed out of my own existence and one of the books that really does that for men um is the book
2:05:08
No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Dr Robert Glover have you heard of this book
2:05:14
yes but I haven't read it it's I mean the the entire Dynamic that you're
2:05:19
talking about with this guy being a volcano Curtis like that's that's what that's the exact same image that Dr
2:05:25
Robert Glover uses where it's like men they suppress they suppress what's true
2:05:30
for them and and they become very nice right and they present in this very nice way very non-threatening but the truth
2:05:37
of who they are gets suppressed and suppressed and then explodes and comes out sideways and Jordan Peterson talks
2:05:44
about this as well there's nothing more dangerous than a nice guy because you don't actually know who he is and then
2:05:50
I'm talking I'm talking to friends other women in my life that are saying they that are getting around nice guys and
2:05:55
how anxious these nice guys make them feel right like I don't know where this guy is at it's like but this is the
2:06:02
message that so many men receive is that you have to be nice you have to be nice nice but what they don't say which is
2:06:08
what you just said that there's no amount of that you can ever truly make a
2:06:14
woman feel safe that she has to be be responsible for her own feelings of
2:06:19
safety and her own innate anxiety like whatever to whatever grief she has that she needs to be in control of that and
2:06:26
it's not your responsibility man to cut to defang declaw and castrate yourself so that she feels safe because you can
2:06:32
never disempower yourself enough to make her feel safe and you'll actually end up doing the opposite
2:06:37
that's that's some stuff right there yeah that's some stuff right there
2:06:45
is also how you said that that you can't ever do enough of it
2:06:51
um can ever go in the wrong direction for too long and unfortunately
2:06:59
hey this this here before right with what you
2:07:05
call the great reconciliation um and what I discovered and what shows
2:07:10
up in the third chapter in the Queen's code that when I was asked to stop castrating men
2:07:18
my first response was for them how I protect myself that's right and then as I felt into
2:07:27
what Ellen Hurst was asking me I saw that I would never
2:07:34
know like intimately I would never know my own power as a woman
2:07:40
as long as I was still in power from that that my ability to take men's power was
2:07:47
not the same as having power and that until I stopped
2:07:54
stealing power from men I wouldn't I wouldn't truly know my own
2:08:00
and it's interesting because when when we get to it
2:08:06
as many differences as there are between many women and I can catalog the
2:08:12
encyclopedias there's a few wonderful just if you the sameness
2:08:18
this sameness is the truth of that true the admiration and respect and
2:08:28
even really liking another human being begins with us
2:08:34
each men and women men or women that we treat ourselves in no way that causes us
2:08:42
to experience respect and admiration and writing ourselves
2:08:47
yes that when we hold ourselves to what we've decided to become our level for
2:08:54
then we interact with other people
2:08:59
with looking for was seeking what can we count on them for and respecting them for that right and liking them for who
2:09:08
they are and admiring them for the ways that are treated themselves but instead we're until we're interacting in that
2:09:15
whole domain we're never going to have the connections that we're looking for
2:09:20
and it
2:09:29
there's something that I want to give to your people
2:09:34
okay um so we'll we'll figure out how to give it
2:09:40
the how of giving it to your people okay
2:09:45
um it's a a webinar that I recorded summer of 21 when I lived here
2:09:55
I've lived here for about eight or nine months and it kept trying
2:10:01
to adapt to something I needed I kept trying to not need it
2:10:06
and as I kept trying to not need it my version of being nice
2:10:12
right I was being nice about something and then I would be the volcano that
2:10:17
erupted about every six weeks because I really needed something to change and I
2:10:24
was trying to get over it and it was something I presented to Dan before I ever met him
2:10:31
I stated this mood and then I was incongruent with it
2:10:37
and as a result of it I produced something called own your ultimate again
2:10:43
I remember you talking about this yes yes and the subtitle is a grown-up conversation with Alison Armstrong about
2:10:51
what you can't live with and can't live in fact and it's it's not long it's not a long
2:10:59
program but it it's it's one I think it's one of the most important that I've
2:11:04
ever done because it has us come to term with ultimatums which ultimatums are
2:11:11
considered a bad word right that sounds like a note to me you're giving me note to me and what it
2:11:18
unwinds is the problem is not whittled to meetings and that ultimatum means your final
2:11:24
offer the problem is
2:11:29
people first of all not being clear about their ultimators and secondly that
2:11:35
when we present our ultimatums to another person
2:11:40
is when we sense that they are attached enough to being
2:11:46
with us to clean it's a weapon
2:11:52
yeah we don't reveal what we need to be
2:11:58
all in this to stay in whatever it is whether it's as an employee an employer
2:12:03
romantic as a parent providing for a child we don't reveal the ultimatum
2:12:09
until we sense the other person will submit to it because of how much they
2:12:15
love us how much they need us how much they value the work that we do that then
2:12:22
they'll find who changed our ultimatum and that's why it pisses people off because of what a manipulation means
2:12:30
coercive instead of leading with them
2:12:36
I have a student in our smart singles intensive who came to Pride himself on
2:12:43
being the most quickly unliked man in online dating
2:12:49
that's the dubious thing to be proud of he was so proud of himself because he was being so true to himself and putting
2:12:58
up right what he was looking for up front what he required and not budging
2:13:05
no matter how attractive he found the woman to be and meanwhile he was also learning to
2:13:11
understand women and how to help them feel safe while being true to himself
2:13:16
and he and he really prided himself on how quickly he got unlike meaning he didn't have to go sorry I mean he didn't
2:13:23
have to go to any trouble to interact with people who ultimately couldn't give him what he needed who oh
2:13:31
I see to account for what he wanted to be held account for and what he was unwilling to be held account for go away
2:13:37
if you're going to try to hold me to come for that I'm not that man got it unliked not disliked
2:13:43
okay like him and then start to interact and then disagree disappear yes and and
2:13:49
he loved it it was his 100 % true to himself but in every
2:13:54
single interaction tune himself to himself to himself which is what Schwartz singles is about on yourself
2:14:00
first or always lost and and so leading
2:14:05
with your ultimatum the owner ultimatums it's the beginning of that it's the
2:14:10
beginning of yes you may be rejected but get rejected when you care more about
2:14:17
liking yourself than being liked by somebody else when you care more about respecting
2:14:23
yourself then being respected by somebody else in other words when you're more loyal to your own requirements
2:14:31
wouldn't care the least about what they think about what you need instead of saving it for when you care the most
2:14:37
yes that's I mean this is this flies in the
2:14:43
face of what a lot of men are taught which is they're not taught that you as a man are allowed to have standards
2:14:49
right like that's that is a controversial idea there's nothing that causes more friction in a lot of online
2:14:55
circles than a man saying these are my standards he's like no you just have to you just have to accept me as I am if
2:15:02
you love me you have to accept me as I am right and and there's a degree in which you're delivering the ultimatum that's the coercive element right where
2:15:08
that shows up later versus if a man or woman can go through the exercise up
2:15:14
front and I think that's at least half of the power of it is to know what they are for yourself even before you meet
2:15:21
somebody like you're walking around carrying this knowledge inside yourself of what your ultimatums are like How
2:15:27
Deeply How Deeply empowering relationally me and my people gladly won't receive that gift
2:15:34
no yeah and then and then the challenge is is to keep being congruent
2:15:41
I I presented my ultimatums early and then I was in congruent I'm trying
2:15:49
to be nice and get over one so I was sending these mixed messages
2:15:55
that I would blow up about this every once in a while but in between I was incongruent
2:16:02
you know the ultimatum was a healthy diet and lifestyle yeah I remember you telling me yeah right and I'd watch him
2:16:08
put crap in his mouth feel terrible look terrible have low
2:16:13
energy right but I wouldn't say it when he was doing it I would just get upset about it every
2:16:19
once in a while ago and I told you this before overnight I require being with someone who has a
2:16:25
healthy diet and lifestyle but then in between I be inconsistent yeah
2:16:31
a disservice right being nice is a disservice being kind
2:16:38
being kind congruency is kind truth is kind yes
2:16:46
it's vital and that's a distinction that a lot of men are beginning to learn is that the opposite of nice isn't mean if
2:16:53
you stop being a nice guy you don't become a mean guy because a lot of men you know they they worry this is the
2:16:59
metaphor that I give the men that I work with because I run into this problem often a lot of guys worry that if they
2:17:06
were they pull the sword from the stone right they've sacrificed their own their own power then they pull the store they
2:17:13
ask themselves not in these words but if I pull the sword from the stone who will I become will I become a tyrant
2:17:20
right that's their worry because they've seen powerful embodied men before B
2:17:26
tyrants either from childhood and maybe not even like major league tyrants but they've experienced a strong embodied
2:17:32
man say crossing a boundary even even accidentally and like I don't want to be that and so to point to paint the
2:17:40
picture for them first of all that that you're even worried about that is proof
2:17:46
that you won't become that because you are the conscientious man who can pull that sword from the stone but the
2:17:52
ability to paint the difference in language between niceness and kindness
2:17:58
really helps crystallize it like you won't you'll stop being a nice guy but
2:18:03
you won't you you will become a kind man right which is which is a far better
2:18:09
posture of strength and being but you have to you have to risk something to do that you have to risk actually having
2:18:16
the sword in your hand and you have to be the kind of conscientious man the now
2:18:21
doesn't keep your power locked away but that keeps it in check and knows where to use it productively it's a whole
2:18:28
greater degree of self-responsibility and and when I when I paint that metaphor for them they get it it doesn't
2:18:35
mean they stop being afraid but they still they still get it because they're taught that the difference between
2:18:40
kindness the opposite of kindness is meanness and that's absolutely not the case but no one's ever painted the
2:18:46
picture for who they'll be as a fully embodied man that you don't lose the best parts of yourself when you take
2:18:52
your power on you enhance them and bring them to reality into manifestation
2:19:00
yay yay I want to be I want to be sensitive to
2:19:06
your time but I have I have three questions that um okay so um and we and I'll tell you
2:19:13
what they are up front I got a couple questions from women that wanted to ask you um about uh the case the kingdom and
2:19:21
then I have I have a question about these 14 different things because it came up in the last conversation and I
2:19:26
think that you've you've teased apart the pieces of the great reconciliation and I wanted to bring it up last time
2:19:32
but I I didn't get like it was one of those things like I watched it go away in the conversation like no come back so I want to get to that but the first the
2:19:39
first question that I got from one of my listeners is in the keys to the kingdom you lay out
2:19:44
the stages of a man's development where a man doesn't feel able uh to provide
2:19:50
for a family and that the woman has to be patient while the man gets to the point where he can become a provider
2:19:55
that he has to feel comfortable within himself and what this listener asked is what if there's a biological component
2:20:01
that's a that's an urgent need like physiologically for her and he doesn't feel like he's there yet how can she
2:20:09
communicate with him or or what's the dialogue that goes in there it's like hey I know that you feel like you're two
2:20:14
years away it it'll be it'll be significantly different for me two years from now like
2:20:20
how did how does she have that conversation what should she say how does that take place
2:20:27
well there's a lot of inquiring to do and it goes back to our conversation about
2:20:34
self-sufficiency because a man being ready for something
2:20:42
he's interacting with his own self-sufficiency can I handle this can I deliver this can
2:20:50
I be all that I need to do there are things that become possible in
2:20:55
Partnership that are Unthinkable and self-sufficiency can I raise a child
2:21:03
no I'm not ready to raise a child okay but are my wife and I ready to
2:21:08
raise a child do we have sufficient communication
2:21:13
skills are we aligned have we had all the conversations about how we would do that like
2:21:20
do I have can I have confidence in us I may not have complete confidence in
2:21:27
myself but I have confidence in US I know she brings out the best of me and
2:21:32
I'd surprise him to the attention and I know she has a limited reproductive lifestyle life cycle
2:21:39
so there's some give and take with medication okay honey there's this one thing I gotta do in the business before I know
2:21:47
I'll have enough bandwidth to be your partner and parenting a child and I want to be your partner I want you to be left
2:21:53
raising your children because I didn't have enough bandwidth to
2:21:59
I gotta get this one thing done which then her question can be so how can I
2:22:04
support you instead of that's stupid right you validate please don't say that indeed
2:22:11
that end of conversation right so there's things that are possible um and then I've interacted with a lot
2:22:18
of women because wanting to be a biological parent is a very strong
2:22:23
Instinct and it it is endangered much earlier in women's chronological lives
2:22:31
than women know into why women start getting wound up at about age 29 because that's when the
2:22:39
body is recognizing the lower levels of estrogen and testosterone which are
2:22:45
provided by that ovum um and they're disappearing right and so
2:22:51
those lower levels are registered as this is an emergency biological need and
2:22:57
we talk about that in understanding women and there are things that can be done if
2:23:02
if there's truly a joint desire and truly a conflict for example to harvest and
2:23:10
fertilize aims but implant them two years later
2:23:15
there are things that can be done but it's something this goes back to that
2:23:20
ultimatums thing we need to have the when of having children conversation
2:23:27
way before way before 30. yeah wait way
2:23:32
way before way before even getting married do you know it's it's something I'm
2:23:37
proud of my son for by the way he two years ago he said I'll be ready to have children in 10 years
2:23:46
he'll be he'll be 42 when he's ready to have children and he's very methodical and thinking about these are the moves I
2:23:53
need to make now in order to be ready to do that when I want to do and and so men have so many plans we
2:24:00
don't even know about that we have to be very safe to find out about um yes oh yeah yeah so I would say how
2:24:08
to have that conversation was it with with a heck of a lot of respect and be very clear what Perkins where her bones
2:24:17
are and have them backed up by facts not just feelings
2:24:23
go to the doctor ultrasound like ovaries what's my biological life here right
2:24:30
yeah I was so happy when I found out I had plumpers
2:24:36
more than I was supposed to have at 42 years old um so
2:24:42
that would be my answer to that question what's your next question
2:24:47
well just to just a tag on my response to the man in that situation if I could
2:24:53
speak to him would be there is a component of wait until you're ready but
2:24:58
men also can fall into a trap of never feeling ready for anything family whatever like I'm not ready I'm not
2:25:04
ready it's like there is a component of no you throw yourself off the cliff and you figure it out on the way down and
2:25:10
making a commitment to a wife and a family has the way of Turbo charging men's focus and productivity because now
2:25:17
I think a switch gets flipped in a man's Minds like now I am responsible and I've made the commitment to be responsible
2:25:23
for something and someone Beyond myself and that only in that leap can you find
2:25:29
the strength to do that so if you're waiting for some external or even internal thing to change and then I'll
2:25:34
be ready no like the actual doing of it creates the Readiness so that's that's
2:25:39
one of the teachings that's going around for men so women have a there's a dialogue dialogue component where it's
2:25:44
like well honey what do you actually need to feel ready and to have him say make it Concrete in a specific thing how
2:25:51
can I help you achieve that and then there's there that triggers a little accountability switch like oh wow okay
2:25:56
that create and that creates you know something tangible to work with and so that's a that's a you know rather
2:26:02
than a woman strategizing well how do I how do I approach how do I confront the enemy about this it's like no you can just say and for for the man to have
2:26:09
faith in the strength of the partnership and the strength of a self and himself and his brothers I think is powerful as
2:26:16
well yes well and what you're touching on is is also one of the obvious
2:26:22
answers what normally happens between men and women
2:26:28
it will seem like the man has to count on himself because because he's not
2:26:34
winning as a husband how is he going to win as a father with the same person
2:26:39
oh good point yes huge huge risk right he's already taken
2:26:46
on providing for her and he's not winging at it mostly because she won't let him mm-hmm
2:26:52
It all becomes internal and um my son's father actually said to me
2:27:00
once that he thought that it was a good thing I'd gotten pregnant because he thought he would never have been raped
2:27:09
okay got it yes yeah yeah and when we got divorced it was when he
2:27:15
actually dedicated himself to fatherhood
2:27:24
um what was your next ingredient next question um
2:27:30
I have been following your work from the beginning of my 10-year marriage your teachings I believe are why I'm still
2:27:36
married I also use the principles with my son I always boost him up with appreciation and I do my best to not
2:27:42
interrupt him when he talks although this one is hard for me what other tools do you recommend while raising a 10 year
2:27:48
old son um
2:27:55
it goes back to our conversation will about accountability or count on ability
2:28:02
and one of the things that we paid attention to is how someone relates to an
2:28:08
accountability has everything to do with how to interact with it so it's like a scale like unwilling to
2:28:17
be accountable we try to hold people accountable who are unwilling to be accountable that's the lowest level of
2:28:24
Duty would be the next level it's my duty as assignments my duty as a father
2:28:29
as a brother as an employer duty is a form of accountability
2:28:36
but at that level it's always going to be only to the standard of the person
2:28:43
who thinks it's a duty they're going to do the minimum of their duties
2:28:48
okay so that is willing to return you're willing to be accountable but
2:28:54
it'll be under certain conditions and then up from that is a request to be
2:29:00
accounted please pick me give that to me to take care and then that and it may be given that
2:29:07
to me to take care of because then I'll know it's taken care of right maybe give that to me to take care of
2:29:13
because I have a vision for it right because I'm capable at that I can get
2:29:18
the job done for the whole team and then up from requested I mentioned before is privileged it would be a
2:29:24
privilege to be accountable for it and as young as probably
2:29:33
um four or five years old it's appropriate to interact with young
2:29:39
people I don't call them children on purpose with young people about what
2:29:44
they can be counted on for and what I need to be able to count on you for are you willing to take that on be
2:29:51
interacted with as account honorable and how could I support you since you're committed to being accountable for that
2:29:58
what do you wish you were interested with if that was your job around here
2:30:03
you see life what do you wish was your job I wished mowing the lawn was my job
2:30:10
but I was a girl and those jobs were given the boys in the 60s I didn't get to mow the lawn or clean the pool I got
2:30:17
to vaccin and dust okay you can imagine my late 50s when I
2:30:24
got to work on my dad's car with him I'm excited I was to be painting the
2:30:31
calipers on his car the matching wreck
2:30:36
Dad I'm working on the so funny so that's beautiful yeah I mean
2:30:45
what he'll be empowered by is be known that he's counted on for what he wants
2:30:51
to be counted him and even what he'd like to grow into being Canada
2:30:58
it's it's tremendously empowering to young people to be held to account
2:31:04
there's so much smarter and more able and powerful and capable than a
2:31:09
different type and that's the way that we must get it yes especially the boys you're a typical
2:31:16
teenager I didn't have typical teenagers
2:31:21
at all I never went there you wouldn't [Music] well but I held my kids to account for
2:31:27
behaving in particular ways I never punished his punishment is
2:31:34
baloney mainly ever had real consequences in it they were finished
2:31:39
the desire to punish is deadly and and Punishment doesn't work
2:31:45
consequences real consequences actual consequences like if you don't get you're if you don't go to school
2:31:53
you end up with a lot of homework yeah yeah I didn't make my kids go to
2:31:58
school they decided to go to school because it was easier to do homework for other teacher was talking about stupid stuff
2:32:05
in the middle of class [Laughter]
2:32:11
accountability I recommend accountability that's great yeah it's um
2:32:17
calling calling to the archetype another book that you you might enjoy if you haven't if you haven't read it is king warrior magician lover by Robert Moore
2:32:24
and Douglas Gillette that's another one it's like calling to that King archetype even within a boy you know calling forth
2:32:30
not just uh when I hear the word Duty I think of something Beyond minimum but I
2:32:36
hear in in your hierarchy of you know that that what I think of of Duty is the privilege to do something like this is
2:32:42
my duty but yes that there's this hierarchy of um hierarchy of accountability we're at the
2:32:48
highest level like I would be privileged to take that on to give it to give a young boy the opportunity to perform to
2:32:55
that standard I mean that would be life-changing stuff for for a little boy especially especially if you give him
2:33:01
the tools to do it well right and he has a father and a mother who supports him in that that I mean absolutely
2:33:10
foundationally formative for his self-esteem and self-respect yes and every word in the language of Heroes
2:33:17
applies that was absolutely in fact I've seen it
2:33:23
a chapter one the word here oh wow wow I've never heard it before
2:33:30
responding the essence of what it is
2:33:36
[Music] yeah it works even with it works even with young boys as well which is such a
2:33:41
profound truth about men that it's it's part of us right it's not it's not something that that Allison came up with
2:33:48
and now that all men have to be taught and then we learn oh yeah it's like no no you've you've you've touched on
2:33:54
something that's fundamental and permanent and true in in the essential masculine makeup of men
2:34:00
then that was the power of it when I read it it's like it was like looking into a mirror and it's still like
2:34:05
looking into a mirror like listening into a mirror right and and that's that's the amazing part of it like I and
2:34:13
you talked about in the very beginning that you channeled you channeled the material or it was given to you whatever
2:34:18
the language is it's a it's a gift it chose to come through you into the world
2:34:24
and and um and the proof of that to me is that it's also blessed you and your life
2:34:32
right like you you received it and it continues to change and transform you and the men who are in your life and and
2:34:38
the women who in your life as well like in your personal life and me and so that's that's the the surest
2:34:43
testimony to the to the essential goodness of what you've discovered um
2:34:49
if I could say something to be complete your question from the father about
2:34:54
appreciation um there are different currencies of
2:35:00
appreciation and we often express appreciation in our own currencies
2:35:06
in it you may not register over there so it's really important to find out how do
2:35:13
you like to be appreciated and accountability can be a form of appreciation
2:35:21
um or it can be insulted haven't I done enough for you
2:35:29
um yeah it's it's one of the things that we have to be sensitive about interacting
2:35:35
with would you would you feel appreciated if that became your job
2:35:42
oh yeah they like you value them you trust me my job no that was fun to do this time
2:35:51
give me something else to do something else to do okay yeah
2:35:57
third question I've been waiting a year to get to say really save the best possible here's the thing
2:36:04
with here's the thing with the great reconciliation that I had realized uh it would have been it would have been
2:36:09
around when we met or after something like that but it was before we had that first Contact podcast conversation I
2:36:15
recognized that in the great reconciliation both men and women have to step into the circle at the same time
2:36:22
there can be no you go first it's like we both have to step into the circle at the same time and let go of a lot in the
2:36:30
spirit of faith and mutual trust and mutual love that it's not just women it's not just men it's both it's
2:36:36
happening simultaneously right and and the profound risk of trust and love and
2:36:43
faith that's embodied and all that and when you said that I realized that in that moment it sounded to me as if you
2:36:50
had taken apart the great reconciliation all the pieces of it and I was like oh I want what's that about and I wanted to
2:36:56
ask and I didn't ask because the conversation of course we went on our big rambling off-road journey and that
2:37:02
whole conversation and then four hours had gone by and it's like and it was gone and so I've had that thought in my
2:37:08
mind for over a year now wanting to talk about that specific thing that that
2:37:13
somehow it seems that you and I are looking at the same thing and that and that you see that you being you and
2:37:19
studying men and women the way that you do you see things at such a high at such a high resolution that I haven't been able to explore but there's something in
2:37:26
that there's something similar that you and I are looking at so I wanted to talk to you about that and and I don't know
2:37:32
if you can talk about what those 14 things are if it's in a course or what you can say about them but
2:37:37
please tell me it's been this giant mystery in my head
2:37:43
um so those Fortune things are in a close
2:37:50
um and I would propose to do them Justice that you and I
2:37:59
um have a different time to talk about okay and
2:38:04
um accountability is one of them
2:38:10
um by choice is the way I would put it it kind of give me my choice not just what
2:38:16
I'm trying to hold this to account for um sufficient clarity
2:38:24
there's a there's a sufficient amount of clarity that's required
2:38:29
um but I want to say something about the step into the room at the same time
2:38:37
because there's two sides of it
2:38:42
um the intent of my work directly on
2:38:47
partnership which there's 14 choices are is for people to embody those choices
2:38:56
and just so you use the word embody for people to embody those choices such that
2:39:02
they become what I call an invitation Department
2:39:08
so we can't make people partner and and not everyone is suited to partner and we
2:39:16
don't need to partner about everything in life we don't need to exclude
2:39:21
self-sufficiency um I think of human beings as as particle and waves
2:39:29
and the engineers we need to take care of
2:39:34
our particle in order to be a contribution to available waves in some
2:39:40
ways we participate in and it's also possible to lead it with um just called transformation
2:39:47
transformation teachers lead waves and
2:39:53
it's so to be an invitation to partner doesn't mean you're always going to get
2:40:01
a yes but until you're an invitation to partner you can't get it yes
2:40:07
and so this is to your your we have to step in at the same time
2:40:15
um we can't we can't control another stepping in we can only control elves
2:40:21
so if you step in as an invitation to partner and you're the only one standing
2:40:27
in the circle for years um we keep being an invitation to
2:40:32
partner but what I discovered once I stopped a masquerading men
2:40:38
is how much men are already an Invitational partner
2:40:43
and it had me inquire yes there are men who are not
2:40:51
they are self-sufficient as a principle even even Greg who had that as part of
2:40:57
his identity there were ways that we could partner magnificently like as parents
2:41:03
um but there's this other thing I want to
2:41:09
offer will and it happened between Dan and I just a short while ago at the
2:41:15
beginning of my five-week kind of vacation where where something happened in
2:41:23
checking into a hotel room in Nashville where he she went completely independent
2:41:30
to solve the problem and he didn't know that I was standing by to help solve it I mean this enormous
2:41:38
Rift I didn't just have my feelings hurt I was completely disconnected and
2:41:47
the way I described it to him the next day was that I I couldn't feel loved
2:41:57
I I could I I felt no love for him and I realized that I couldn't feel loved
2:42:03
period even for myself a really clear sign that I was deep in a
2:42:08
human instinctive reaction and when I told him I couldn't to love for you he said yes I could tell
2:42:16
and I became an island um and so here were these two human beings
2:42:24
in this situation together completely isolated I actually piled up pillows on
2:42:31
the edge of my bed between us like wanted a wall I was so
2:42:38
disconnected from my own spirit and a funny thing that happened the day
2:42:44
before when we were driving to the airport we passed a lake and this Lake normally has an island in the center of
2:42:52
it and I noticed that the water had fallen so low that there was now a land
2:42:58
breach between this island and it the surrounding environment and my remark
2:43:04
was wow I hope there are birds nesting on that island because now the Predators
2:43:10
can get to them through the land bridge and I just it was just an offhand
2:43:16
comment well we didn't speak for a lot
2:43:21
of hours like 16 hours or something we didn't speak to each other sharing a
2:43:27
hotel room about to attend a retreat I'm being Guided by higher consciousness
2:43:37
and I came out of the bathroom and he was standing there and he said can we hug
2:43:45
and I did not want time but we hoped
2:43:51
and it was like two boxes hugging there was no warmth no softness no
2:43:59
Comfort no connection no nothing but I acknowledged him later
2:44:06
for offering the land breach that he had become an island and that in
2:44:14
that moment asking for a hug he had offered a land bridge and even though I didn't want to I
2:44:20
accepted it and that was the beginning of us being able to talk about what had
2:44:26
happened and to sort it out and to reconcile and
2:44:34
we we now have evolved it because you know we we play so so land bridge became
2:44:40
hand bridge when there's a breakdown he'll hold out his hand and Bridge and
2:44:46
I'll take his hand either one I don't want him and we had a breakdown we got back from
2:44:52
my birthday trip to Hawaii so I came out with something that we
2:44:57
normally don't eat a scone for the non-gluten eaters food branch
2:45:04
[Music] and and I it's something that I said years and years ago about in a
2:45:11
partnership he or she who can dance
2:45:18
so if you if you can say I'm sorry if you can say let's talk if you can say
2:45:28
if you can reach out your hand you do reach out your hand
2:45:33
yeah and until we do that we won't know if the other person will
2:45:41
step into the circle until we step into the circle we won't know who it's going
2:45:46
to show and that's what stunned me when I stopped emasculating mine
2:45:53
I thought I'd have to learn how to bring out the prince instead of the fog I'd
2:45:59
learn how to I'd have to learn how to bring out the best sooner when I just stopped taking men's power
2:46:06
I was stunned and continue to be amazed by crew men offer before you're coming
2:46:17
just stop being unkind and find out who mental and so many of you are already in the
2:46:24
circle bewildered why women treat you like enemies
2:46:29
when all you want is good for us and you don't know that how we're
2:46:36
judging you and perceiving you we can't see your goodness because you don't express it like a woman which goes back
2:46:42
to our previous conversation so many men are trying to express it like a woman in order to be seen but it's a betrayal of
2:46:49
yourself and cause you to be even less yes
2:46:55
yes this is why from from the female side of the reconciliation
2:47:06
what I've said for years is is that it's up to us
2:47:11
men are not the source of the Cold War men are not not on the attack men are on
2:47:19
the defense when women stop attacking men this all
2:47:25
mountains they don't have a need for it and it's it's a different word that I use than
2:47:33
powerful in in Partnership power disappears
2:47:40
another way of saying it there's power enough between us that we don't even talk about it we don't even think about
2:47:47
it there's no power of struggle because there's power enough between us
2:47:52
there's no powerful power less power zero there's just us and and ability right
2:48:00
Powers the ability to do or generate a Cause right there's justability and partnership there's a
2:48:06
stability and that's what happens when you stop being afraid of each other and stop taking each other down or when we're
2:48:13
afraid of each other we say so I'm scared and
2:48:19
last year when I produced to own your ultimatums and Dan realized what I was
2:48:25
talking about he's like okay what else on your list will we break up a word I said every single thing yes
2:48:35
each and every one of them including the ones you already are if you stop being that way and you're 42 all together and
2:48:43
and at one point I said I want to run and he said and he reached out and he
2:48:50
said okay take my hand and then we're talking some more and a
2:48:55
little while lady goes now I want to run let's hold both hands
2:49:01
ha that's great what a man
2:49:12
yeah it's so big you know and he generates being that way when I'm at my
2:49:18
worst which is what I realized I needed in a partner was not just someone I inspired to be
2:49:25
great or it can be great when I'm safe but generates being great on their own
2:49:31
when I'm my scariest and my scared which obviously they go together and my skills
2:49:40
which is how to help me
2:49:46
he's got that he's got that strength of Venom to be able to contain that and to be able to respond to that into um
2:49:54
disarm it let's say yeah
2:50:00
so I think we should dedicate its own
2:50:05
session to the great reconciliency okay about add some some homework for you
2:50:13
before and I look forward to the conversation me too me too and and thank you for
2:50:20
pointing something out to me by the way because I I um I know a lot of men who have dealt with
2:50:27
being castrated for for a long time right and and whether they've allowed
2:50:34
them some selves to be or not they've been the recipients of it and they have a lot of distrust of women
2:50:40
um and it's earned it's earned and not only that do they have the distrust of women their
2:50:46
shamed persecuted for even mentioning it for even suggesting that women are anything less than perfect angels that
2:50:53
women have a shadow that women have a dark side that women are unkind or unfair to men they get in trouble for
2:50:58
even saying that and so so they have a lot of earned we'll call it resentment anger towards
2:51:05
women and towards the entire cultural moment that doesn't allow them
2:51:10
to even say this is wrong and bad and so when I say step into this and women of
2:51:16
course have their own culturally um cultivated resentments towards men as we've been discussing
2:51:21
so when I talk about having to step in at the same time I'm speaking to those men that like no
2:51:28
you have to let go of this as well but you help me you help and this is the world that I come from right like not
2:51:34
not where I was born but like the world of the Ben's movement that I've come through with men who have recognized a lot of things that you're describing
2:51:40
haven't been able to put as clear language to them and are like yeah I
2:51:45
don't even know if I I naturally my body want to do this but if I make myself
2:51:51
vulnerable or available to a woman is she gonna bring her daggers into the
2:51:57
circle what's her disincentive from doing that because men can look around and we can
2:52:02
see everywhere in movies and stuff like that where it's like all women got their daggers out hold on while I just
2:52:08
castrate all these men in this new Lord of the Rings series I'm just gonna six episodes of castrating men right and so
2:52:13
men look at that and they're like why should I trust women but you remind me that the men who think about those sort
2:52:20
of things is not all men that there are a lot of men are like look I'm just looking for partnership I'm just here trying to do my thing I want to be a
2:52:27
husband I want to be a provider and there are a lot of men that are already standing in the circle and you remind me of that so thank you
2:52:33
for that because I think that there are some men that I'm trying to encourage to step into the circle because I know many women who are like I'm so ready to step
2:52:40
into the circle well then there's a ton of other people out there men in particular that are like yeah Ma I've
2:52:45
been here I've been holding it down so thank you for reminding me of that you're welcome
2:52:53
I would also say well that part of my intent of the Queen's code specifically
2:53:00
the audiobook is that one way that men can remove it
2:53:08
is once hi honey we're on my last sentence I
2:53:14
think you want to say hi to Will oh cool
2:53:21
she's gotta take this cold close up okay oh you got a Snoopy on the Zamboni
2:53:27
come here honey look at this face what a blessing it
2:53:34
will hey what's up Dan good to see you good to see you
2:53:40
yeah that pillows not actually if you're
2:53:46
falling yeah I'll let you guys get back to it good
2:53:51
seeing your will good to see you Dan okay
2:53:58
um I I believe and I would love for you to
2:54:05
check this out for me I believe in listening to the Queen's
2:54:10
code and Men recognizing their resonance
2:54:16
of Who You Are
2:54:21
that you can also read it or listen to it from the intent to understand
2:54:30
the source of emasculation yes and by doing so when I witnessed
2:54:38
this you literally can become impervious to a masquerade
2:54:45
you can just see it for what it is yeah you can just see oh she's scared out of her lips I can have
2:54:52
this yeah and that that thought I can handle this I can be with this I don't
2:54:59
have to mess with this I don't have to keep to this all of those thoughts literally create themselves
2:55:06
you think you can handle it you can period
2:55:11
and and that's what I wish for men from the Queen's code not only to to see the
2:55:18
the goodness the honor of your own motivations and no longer let them be
2:55:24
attacked when when women are choosing you of baloney right except that just isn't
2:55:30
true not allow it yes and that's the strength that we as women
2:55:36
need we know when we're first set and and we respect the man who doesn't
2:55:43
fall for it I know who you are I know who I am I'm not falling for that
2:55:49
oh really oh thank goodness because we know we're our own worst
2:55:54
enemies so I I I'm working both sides of it for women
2:56:02
to give up justifying emasculating men which is the beginning of curing
2:56:08
ourselves of the habit and the reaction of it and for men to stop falling for it
2:56:17
you you don't have to agree to be a master yes
2:56:23
please decline
2:56:28
women will stop doing it some will
2:56:36
I I give a talk I know you have to go but I gave a talk at a conference in 2021 that I'm going to turn to a YouTube
2:56:41
video about this very subject about how men can stop allowing themselves to be emasculated and where it comes from in women so I'll send that to you when
2:56:48
that's done thank you link to it on our website we can have people watch it
2:56:54
I would love that I would love that thank you so much Alice continued
2:57:01
we'll communicate about that other stuff okay and then and then where would you like to send people
2:57:07
um any links to visit or social media profiles that you'd like um
2:57:13
Allison armstrong.com is easiest place it's the only way it's only a patient get that audiobook mm-hmm
2:57:20
yeah perfect we'll do that thank you thank you thank you Allison I love you I love
2:57:27
you too bye bye

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