0:00

I just turned 40 and like the guys there's a there's a difference there that I'm actually trying to understand

0:07

and I do want to help guys that are humble and hardworking I don't really have a lot of time for the silly boys

0:13

and I'm sure this is a problem with me I don't get why anyone would be interested in Andrew Tate mhm I don't I don't

0:20

actually even understand it like I want a shepherd and help but I also think like if you're interested in entertainment it's like you're like a

0:27

long like you need what you need to do like John 3

0:38

16 hello my name is Will Spencer and welcome to the will Spencer podcast this

0:44

is a weekly Show featuring in-depth conversations with authors leaders and influencers who help us understand our

0:49

changing World new episodes release every Friday my guest this week is Dr Jared longshaw and he's the associate

0:56

pastor at Christ Church in Moscow Idaho the dean of new s College the author of the case for the Christian family a

1:03

husband father and a bunch of other things that we'll get to in a moment now I want to kick off this introduction

1:09

with a quote from a book and as I read it I want you to take a guess when it was written all right here we go how

1:15

common is it to see young men with big heads high-minded and impatient of any counsel how often they're rude and

1:22

uncourteous to everyone around them thinking they're not valued as they deserve how often they won't even stop

1:28

to listen to a hint from an older person they think they know everything they're full of conceit about their own wisdom

1:34

they think elderly people especially their relatives are stupid dull and slow

1:40

they want no teaching themselves they understand all things already it almost makes them angry to be spoken to like

1:47

Young Horses they can't bear the least control they must be independent and have their own way they seem to think

1:54

like those job mentioned you are the people and wisdom will die with you and all this is pride end quote so when do

2:02

you think this was written the 1960s maybe the 1920s if that's what you're thinking you'd be wrong it's from

2:09

thoughts for young men by JC riyle written in 1886 almost 140 years ago but

2:15

man riyle could have been writing today because young Christian men are in trouble and they've gotten themselves

2:21

there just a quick scroll through X and my mentions shows a generation of young guys who despise their fathers or any

2:29

older men in Authority positions these young men have decided that they can wrap fundamentally boyish behavior in

2:35

memes quips verbal Jabs and inside jokes sprinkle a couple Bible verses on top with some mused up Crusader AI artwork

2:43

and call that Christian and you know what more than a few men with Pastor in their title are egging them on why

2:50

because ma a feminite church because M Boomers because ma feminism and now it's

2:55

increasingly because mjws and Ma Israel you know the drill now I could tell you what I think about all that but I'd

3:02

rather show you because to me it looks a whole lot like Adam's tragic pointing in the garden after eating that forbidden

3:08

fruit Adam is standing there utterly naked hiding being called out like a child by the Creator who breathed life

3:16

into his very nostrils when Adam opened his eyes for the first time God's face was literally right there and the only

3:23

response Adam can come up with for his undeceived sin is but what about her and

3:28

guys haven't stopped pointing since so now here we are today with men pointing fingers at their father's failures and

3:34

yeah fair enough many Boomers kind of dropped the civilizational ball and they pointed their mean old veteran dads too

3:41

by the way but all that doesn't mean that standards for men's behavior have gone out the window because of instead

3:46

of M Eve we now have M dad and I'm not a fan so earlier this year I decided to

3:52

find out if there actually was a book that spoke to Timeless standards for the Christian Life and I found JC ri's

3:58

Holiness which I first heard Pastor Jeff Durban recommend from the pulpit at apologia church as a book he reads every

4:06

single year now Holiness or being set apart that's a word we don't hear much anymore because not only is the world

4:12

very much with us Christians are very much with the world whether it's getting caught up in social media trends

4:19

drowning in news headlines or binging movies from crumbling Los Angeles many Christians have just forgotten that

4:25

they're called to be set apart and so have young men because they've taken giant hits of the manosphere the red

4:31

pill and forchan with all of their quips Jabs and memes to become just as worldly

4:37

as those they claim to fight against just in a more internet friendly way so I thought Holiness would be the perfect

4:43

remedy to point to and say guys you're probably not going to like this but there actually is a standard that you're

4:49

accountable to totally independent of your father's failures sorry not sorry

4:54

which brings me back to my guest this week I picked up the Canon press edition of holiness and saw that Dr Jared

5:00

longshaw had written the introduction so I thought great here's a chance to read Riley all 460 pages of Holiness plus

5:08

another 70 pages of thoughts for young men and have a solid chat with a good man about it but you know what they say

5:15

people make plans and God laughs because what actually happened was something very different Dr longshaw and I didn't

5:21

talk about riy nearly as much as I thought we would instead we got into Jared's background his upbringing his

5:27

young adult years working construction in FL FL no less plus his college athletic achievements and more and I

5:33

realized here's a man whose voice I think young guys really need to hear because it's hard to argue with Jared's

5:39

credentials on these topics and one principle of this podcast has always been don't listen to me or take my word

5:45

for it listen to the men and women who actually know and make up your own mind and because I want you young man

5:52

listening right now to know that I hear you I had the chance to throw some pitches Dr Long Shore's way and see what

5:58

he'd do with them I I asked him questions trying to mimic the exact tone and language I've heard guys ask me and

6:05

typical of an experienced Pastor who shephards young men instead of just exhorting them like I do he answered

6:10

differently and honestly better than I would have so if I could have it all my way what I'd want is for you to listen

6:16

to this interview really consider Dr Long Shaw's words then go read his introduction to Holiness and just keep

6:23

reading because Holiness is a remarkable work like drinking from a fire hydrant of Christian virtue that someone just

6:29

cracked open it's marvelous and I think every believer should read it at least once you'll see why Pastor Jeff Durban

6:36

recommends it so highly and why Pastor Jared longshaw wrote the introduction and even named his son riyle if this is

6:43

your first time enjoying the will Spencer podcast welcome if you like what you hear please subscribe hit that like

6:49

button with gusto and leave a comment letting us know what you thought if you're listening on Spotify or apple

6:54

subscribe there as well and don't forget to leave a five-star review if you'd like to go deeper you can subscribe to

7:00

my substack at the link in the description or click buy me a coffee in the show notes every contribution you

7:06

make helps keep this independent platform running and please welcome this week's guest on the podcast the

7:12

associate pastor at Christ Church in Moscow Idaho and the dean of new St Andrew's College Dr Jared

7:19

Longshore Pastor Jared Longshore welcome to the will Spencer podcast very glad to

7:24

be here thanks for having me before we dive into today's subject I just want to thank you for your book the Case for the

7:30

Christian family that was incredibly formative for me as I found my way to a more covenantal way of thinking so just

7:37

thank you for that book we're not going to talk about it today but I just wanted to thank you for that book up front yeah you bet it was my delight to write it

7:44

and glad that it uh it's done done something productive I think it's probably affected more than me as

7:50

well yeah yeah it's been I've been pleased with the feedback on that oh praise God so today we're going to talk

7:57

about a couple books by JC riy first we have Holiness and we have thoughts for

8:04

thoughts for young men and just to set the stage for the audience I'll say more about I will have said more about this in the introduction there seems to be a

8:11

discussion right now about how young men are supposed to be conducting themselves particularly online and in the reform

8:17

sphere and they seem to have adopted a code of conduct that I don't think represents the best practices of the

8:23

Christian faith and so I would like to turn to some of our forefathers in the faith particularly JC riyle who had some

8:29

strong words for men so I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you about this yeah me too it's

8:34

certainly pertinent so before we uh dive into JC R I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing a

8:40

little bit about your background as I as I mentioned earlier you know I've listened to a bunch of podcast with you

8:45

but I don't think I've ever heard you talk about you know how you ended up in Moscow your background and all of that

8:52

yeah so I am a born and raised Floridian which is about as far away from Idaho as

8:57

you can get uh it's actually it's it's the same shape of the states just turned upside down which is kind of

9:04

funny um and uh entirely different climate but I was down there in Florida Central Florida about an hour south of

9:12

Orlando is where I spent say the first near nearly 20 years of my life I was

9:17

born and raised in a Christian home uh Christian parents uh went to church

9:22

every Sunday we you know we would be at church Sunday morning Sunday night Wednesday night all that kind of thing

Southern Roots: Work, Sports, Life

9:28

it was a Baptist Church um and my father was a general

9:35

contractor so um grew up with working with him every summer from third grade

9:43

through 10th grade uh when I went to work for a lumber yard uh in my 11th and

9:49

12th grade years but uh just with Dad in Florida sweating it out on on some

9:56

construction site somewhere that did great for my you know for my youth and

10:02

showing me just how weak of a man I was how many lessons I needed to learn uh big sports player growing up so

10:10

played football baseball soccer uh those are my three sports

10:16

played baseball in college for a couple years before I decided that I would uh I

10:22

was not going to make it to the major leagues and decided to hang up the cleats and uh move down to South

10:29

Southwest Florida uh so got Southwest Florida finished up College got married to my

10:35

wife Heather um right out of college and then I took one term off uh I started

10:42

working at a church right away so I was like 22 years old and working in a church which is pretty wild um and love

10:50

those guys down there it was a great time I was there for about four or five years before planting a church down in

10:56

Southwest Florida but I took a term off of school right out of college um and

11:02

then started Seminary right away so I did um a masters of divinity degree

11:10

started at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and then I went to the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary up in

11:15

Louisville Kentucky and I but I traveled back and forth from Florida so I never did that

11:21

Seminary life and um and still still pretty grateful for that I was I was

11:27

grateful to be in Ministry and be trained while I was kind of in the first five years of my

11:33

Ministry um and Heather and I had a bunch of kids during that time and then

11:39

I then I went and did a PhD so I basically just continued finished the Masters and then went right into the PHD

11:45

also at Southern Seminary kept flying back and forth for classes and whatnot um and then I wrapped that up I think in

11:52

like 200 17 or something like that I think

11:57

that's around the time I finished with the PHD and uh had been in Ministry then in Southwest Florida at three different

12:04

churches for um I don't know how long that was 15

12:09

years or something like that and uh and we have seven kids so then we moved to

12:15

Moscow so we moved to Moscow just over three years ago and that's a big deal

12:21

for a born and raced Floridian my wife Heather is also a born and raised Floridian we have lots of family in

12:27

Central Florida great folks and all that uh we were living in Southwest Florida about an hour and a half away um but and

12:35

we' been there for like 17 20 years or something um but to move all the way

12:40

across the country is wild now a lot of things were fitting obviously I so I had

12:45

a PhD so I am the dean at new St Andrews college and I'm a fellow of theology

12:52

here so I teach a freshman theology class and then Dean is basically kind of

12:58

running The Faculty all that kind of stuff um doing Administration dealing with uh students

13:06

that when things come up they need to be handled that kind of stuff and so I was pretty well suited to that job it's

13:12

fairly pastoral to be a dean and so that's um that's kind of like half of my

13:18

job the other half is being a minister at Christ Church in um here in Moscow um

13:24

so I get to shoot back and forth uh across the street between NSA in Christ

13:29

Church Offices here and we've been doing that for 3 years and our kids are in logos school out here which is K

13:36

through2 classical Christian Schools we have seven kids in that school and uh at least at this time this is my second

13:42

year actually teaching seniors there so I just decided to do that too to try to invest in that institution which is

13:48

pretty wild so having a lot of fun with it um moving to family all way across

13:54

the nation was a lot of fun and a BIG Story just kind of a big part of manhood knowing the right thing to do and being able to Do It um obviously that was hard

14:01

it was risky there was um there was um kind of this sense of like okay the

14:08

Lord's leading you here but it was also a reminder that like when Abraham when God came to Abraham and told him to

14:13

leave the land that he knew and go to this other land Abraham hadn't seen it yet you know it's like you didn't know

14:20

you don't know what it's going to be like and it's not all peaches and cream like there's going to be people that

14:25

don't like it you know you're going to have some difficulties it's going to hard to start over all of those kinds of

Exploring Manhood: Challenges and Sacrifices

14:31

things uh so I found those to be like really interesting on the manhood front and like what it really means to be a

14:38

man to lead a family to provide for a family to protect a family to actually do good in the world and I would say

14:46

that that kind of probably my upbringing with the construction and then a lot of football and you know a pretty uh

14:54

Ministry you see kind of see everybody's failures and raising seven kids is a lot

15:00

of work and wonderful and lovely and just sacrificing and all that kind of stuff and then they move across the country all that has put me in a weird

15:07

position with like the man of sphere young man uh Andrew Tate the little tiny child boy like I don't really I don't

15:15

yeah I really don't have much time I want to like help I want to help the

15:21

dudes um you didn't ask me to go here but I'll kind of go here like I want to help I want to help dudes I remember I

15:27

wrote a piece maybe two years ago on my blog uh called something about I was joke I was

15:34

I made a joke about workout dudes calling each other kings like so there I noticed like some of these guys were

15:40

doing this they were working out and they were they were calling each other kings and stuff and like posting

15:45

pictures of themselves and I was like man I mean like when I was in high

15:50

school um when I was in high school I played football and our football we were so country down there in Florida that

15:56

they found a way we were we had four periods in high school they went to like a four period schedule so you imagine they're long they cover like the whole

16:02

day they found a way to get every guy on the football team in fourth period gym

16:07

so we left we would we would finish lunch and go to the gym to work out for like two hours and then go to practice

16:15

so I we spent a lot of time in the gym and I know gym culture is great like you're 18 years old you're lifting

16:20

weights and you're strong and you're being stupid and funny but the king thing was so weird to me like the King

16:27

was like to call each other kings like on the internet while posting

16:33

pictures it just seemed effeminate to me and I was Jo I mean I'm probably I'm joking I'm like I mean I get it I would

16:38

joke if I were in there I'm sure whatever the king culture would be and uh but I remember the the interest I got

16:44

was like very the the response I got was equally effeminate it was like actually upset it wasn't like joking like like

16:52

hey stop being gay it wasn't it was like you know really upset that we can't call

16:58

each other kings and put flaming emoticons on our workout pictures I just thought it was really funny and I

17:03

thought that was my first um introduction into like realizing I'm

17:09

older now it's like oh shoot you know I just turned 40 and like the guys there's a there's a difference there that I'm

17:16

actually trying to understand and I do want to help guys that are humble and hardworking I don't want to help I don't

17:23

really have a lot of time for the silly boys so that's two cents on me getting

17:28

introduced to this I like I really don't

17:34

get and I'm sure this is a problem with me I don't get why anyone would be

17:39

interested in Andrew Tate I don't I don't actually even understand it so I get like yeah well we don't have we

17:45

didn't have but I'm like whatever and like and if you are I'm kind of like I'm

17:51

not like all right like I want a shepherd and help but I also think like

17:56

if you're interested in entertainment it's like you're like all along like you need we you need to do like John

18:02

3:16 mhm so yeah well having come up through the manosphere which is sort of

18:08

how how I came into content creation I think there's a lot of different dimensions to the Ander Tate phenomenon

18:15

one of them is definitely that he's an avatar for young men's frustration so so

18:22

the the the thing of your upbringing that stands out to me is that you were in a community of like man like-minded

18:27

boys and men as you came up playing sports with your father that was just part of your upbringing boys don't

18:33

really have that so much anymore and so they express uh they express the the the sort

18:41

of masculine teasing they do it online where they live most of their lives nowadays and so everything gets

18:46

projected through this online kind of Channel and so when you're frustrated with the world and you can't actually do

18:52

anything about it or you believe you can't do anything about it here's a figure who's paraded in front of you

18:57

like the shadow on the cave wall and Plato's the cave and PE boys get fixated on that and by boys I mean adult men as

19:04

well they get fixated on this as the avatar for their frustration as opposed to channeling that anger into some

19:11

righteous work in their in their everyday lives um that's that's what we I think we don't see yeah that is like

19:18

um I mean so riy you know JC RI I actually named one of my kids Ri so I

19:24

got a I got fourth son my fourth son is named rile um he was an

19:30

athlete um and if you read his work what's what I what I like about Holiness is just like it's just direct and so

19:37

just everything is just it's more there's a problem like with military you

19:43

can have like a too strict of a of a way about you but very much um Sports sport

19:51

culture coaches like do this and so I'm thinking all these guys yeah I mean RI

19:56

would be a great antidote to what they're dealing with because it actually

20:01

you would be far less frustrated if you went and did something hard like just go

20:07

Um I actually I've got a book that's coming out probably in a couple weeks

20:12

that is called man for the job um and it's just like I just wrote like fictional letters to a nephew uh letters

20:20

and made up some nephew named Leo who is was a neighbor of mine in in uh Fort

20:25

Meers Florida and I I I'm just trying to address like what kind of men how do you

Becoming Men Through Community

20:32

actually become the kind of men you need and the right at the outset of this book the first chapter is like you actually

20:37

won't be able to do this apart from enrolling into um organizations that

20:43

will require you to act like a man so you can't do it like on your own you

20:48

definitely can't do it if you're um if you're so if you're not in any of those entities so the everything that I have

20:54

become um I've become by working with my father by um being on football teams and

21:01

wanting to quit like every year I mean football was so hard I wanted to quit every year uh I remember my father said

21:07

like I was probably like 11th grade I'm like I'm just thinking like uh think I might take a break dad and he's like

21:12

yeah it's great I mean you could do that you know I mean you'll be going to do construction like if you you know you're

21:18

like you're not going to come home at 3:00 every day like that's not going to happen and I was like oh construct you

21:24

know what I think football's kind of nice I I was thinking about football's

21:29

great actually I love football and like I know that this is

21:35

that weird thing like this is why like people don't discipline small children and then they want to get mad at like

21:40

older children it's like but dude like you're like a even a even a 13-year-old

21:47

boy is not a Bastion of virtue and fortitude and and discipline like he's

21:53

just not so you have to have other you have to have a structure that's requiring you to do it so until you

21:59

enroll in those structures you know you're you're just dead meat and and

22:04

when you mentioned the online part of this I imagine goodness that's going to be tenfold like I can see that yeah if

22:11

you're actually still not enrolling in the structures and you're spending a lot of time on the internet you're doomed well the online actually provides

22:19

a lot of pseudo structures so that's the part of andrate success and there's lots of aspects to it uh was his group the

22:26

war room and so the War Room was was a heavily disciplined and structured instructional training program and sort

22:33

of men's club and so young men could buy in to the War Room at various levels and

22:38

and make millions of dollars for Andrew Tate but that provided them a sort of a sort of pseudo family a pseudo sports

22:45

team a pseudo set of coaches who could give them the structure that they didn't the structure they didn't have in their

22:50

household growing up or in their childhood anywhere like what you had and so that's a lot of what Andrew Tate

22:57

provided that's a lot of what the man spere provided you know lost and aimless boys who could not find a place to

23:02

belong and be part of a team anywhere and unfortunately these structures become Cults of personality and they

23:10

exploit the young men far more than they actually disciple them I didn't know that there was that

23:16

kind of like a membership club you could get into oh yeah which uh man I mean that brings in this whole qu I still

Online Communities' Challenges Explored

23:22

have obviously tons of questions about technology and you're not going to get

23:27

any of that and R is going to tell you how to live a righteous life and Holiness practical Holiness mhm but the

23:34

whole question of um online stuff I mean I we're doing the podcast right now

23:41

right people are going to listen to this podcast and they're we want them to be helped but um online

23:48

communities you know this kind of disembodied deal um when you so if

23:55

you're like a young guy here's here's what I'd want to tell like you have two

24:00

problems with online communities even if they're War rooms or they're you know if you had a healthy version of Andrew Tate

24:06

even you would still have this problem and Andrew Tate's not a healthy version but if you had a healthy version when

24:12

you log into these kind of things or whatever um number one it's disembodied

24:18

now you might be like well I'm but I'm working out yeah okay but you're not doing it like with anyone mhm so you're

24:25

not coming into contact with others physic so there's there's an individual problem

24:31

you are isolated um and there's a lack of the body problem and particularly for

24:37

males I mean the same for females but you know like you actually have to be

24:43

around humans like around people um in order to in order to actually be a man

24:50

to mature to grow in godliness Holiness um so yeah the online tech stuff living

24:58

there is going to create all kinds of problems yeah I mean the the disembodied

25:03

Community another part of it is you can't actually look at a man's eyes you can't see him every week you you have no

25:10

idea who this person really is because your interactions with him are through text or maybe through a zoom call you

25:16

know you can put anything outside the frame but to be in the physical room with a man or a group of men you get a

25:23

much better sense of who who these men are and who you're associated with and online communities are I mean someone

25:29

can be anyone online and so you have a bunch of fakers you have a bunch of liars you have a bunch of people that are good at projecting an image and

25:36

that's is just online period This is not real male community and I think a number of people have said recently May might

25:42

have even been you that online community as a supplement not a substitute but a lot of men are using it exclusively as a

25:49

supplement for any real world Community yeah that's weird it's um I I

25:56

don't really know what to do with it I I sign um I because I obviously I mean I'm

26:02

I'm doing a podcast right now I write a blog I read stuff on do so I'm I'm not

26:07

against content production at all um but uh in lordship that's our

26:14

freshman theology course out here one of the books that I have um have students read is amusing ourselves to death by

26:20

Neil Postman so it's an old kind of an old classic about um there is something

26:27

there is something it's weirdly limiting of what you can communicate I mean the Apostle Paul

26:33

talks about this in his letters I would rather be there in person um so at least

26:38

if you're aware of its limitations uh I'm certainly not saying that you shouldn't use it at all you're

26:44

going to it's done great work for finding certain doctrines so yes to content production but you as a man like

26:52

you'll need to enroll in actual organizations um I'm not against like

26:59

membership stuff um you know pay Spotify every month to listen to their music and

27:06

that's like you kind of have this membership idea um but they those do have to be

27:11

minimal get your get content from the internet great but like live in the world go get a job there is and the

27:19

reason it's so important there's no other way to do it like I really don't think you can I don't I don't think it

27:25

can you can actually mature uh and become a man apart from being in those

27:32

kinds of uh physical associations so Sports Club um you know Boxing Club um

27:39

an actual job enrolling College those kinds of things MH and I think the

27:45

important uh part about that is a lot of these communities that men self- select into have a tendency to excuse their own

27:54

personal pet sins or weaknesses like I'm going to go find a group of guys that fits perfectly that doesn't challenge me

28:00

and make me uncomfortable in this particular way which might be the exact way that he needs to grow and so men

28:07

through their through their choices of associations as opposed to joining something like a church they're going to

28:12

find a situation where it's like great I'm good here and I can become this kind of guy and I could ignore this other

28:18

part of myself that maybe I need to work on but all the other guys we collaborate to ignore those parts of

28:25

ourselves yeah that's a oh man you use the word self select which is like a it's like a you've you've raised uh an

28:33

issue uh in my mind one one a bug bear like

28:38

so what I would what I want to tell the young fellow is um you the idea another

28:46

thing that your modern world gives you the ability to do is to self- select is to uh claim that the only the only

28:54

associations that mean anything to me are those uh which I voluntarily entered right so um so your

29:03

what's what's happening is like your whole world is being conditioned in a certain way you think voluntary

29:08

Association is where it's at and we uh so in in the three main spheres of Life

Voluntary vs. Covenant in Life

29:15

uh Church State and family we now have like policies that make you think this

29:20

is the way that it works you know like you you think you voluntarily have

29:25

joined a church uh you think you have voluntarily entered into citizenship in a nation you

29:33

can say things like not my president uh or you think you have voluntarily entered into like um marriage and

29:41

voluntarily entered into having children so this kind of goes weird weirdly deep you mentioned going more covenantal so I

29:47

wrote the book on Covenant family but you have like um if you grow up in any

29:52

kind of infant baptism um tradition MH the the kid

29:58

didn't voluntarily enter the kid just voila he you know he just he is raised

30:05

within a context that was pressed upon him that was given to him and therefore

30:11

he he's actually conditioned to just think that way like it would be radical to think that the significance of my my

30:19

church Community uh is somehow conditioned upon my voluntary agreement to enter into

30:27

this community and so guys are walking around with that all the time and so they're like well you know if the if the

30:32

guy doesn't if I don't like what he's saying then I'm just going to leave right okay well if you can do that in your church Which is far more important

30:38

than whatever little Club you joined you know your your club's not your Club sucks is what it does like it's just not

30:44

it's not worth anything it's like um and same so same thing with family uh well

30:50

don't you take vows in marriage well yeah you take vows but um it's actually not just a matter of vows God is the one

30:56

who actually binds you together and you could have two dudes go make those vows and nothing happens it's not a marriage

31:02

so what does that signal to you but they said the same thing they were both committed to they both voluntarily agreed to be in this Association well it

31:09

doesn't matter there's no association that exists there is no entity that exists cuz you live in a world that's

31:15

like that and you actually need to so the young guy needs to realize that that's the world he lives in now some of

31:20

them are voluntary you you voluntarily choose to join the boxing club or whatever but like even as a man like as

31:26

a human being you live in a world where you have certain relationships that are incumbent

31:31

upon you and you didn't have you didn't choose them and you're actually supposed to learn to like be a man in those what

31:38

does it mean to be a man in those cuz now you're like well I don't like what's going on in my family well you're like great fix it like because it's there

31:45

like it's God gave it to you and it's there and you need to fix it um so yeah there you go do you think that this is a

31:53

byproduct of our unique American individualism that we've experienced over the past say half century or so

31:59

this idea that me and my sovereign choice and my sovereign will and my voluntary Association is the most

32:04

important thing my individuality versus identifying ourselves by the covenants we make and belong

32:10

to yes I do um i' I you know you're you're pitching me in my sweet spots

32:16

because I I don't I I'm afraid that met yes yes I'm afraid if um I'm afraid if

32:24

people like just tuned in and didn't and just caught something short of I would say that I like um they think I hate

32:32

individual rights and Liberties and I don't I don't hate individual rights and Liberties I love them but it's in

32:39

Covenant that you find their fullest manifestation and um apart from

32:45

covenants you know you have like radical autonomy in statism like those are your those are your two options and people

32:53

have made there have been problems on both sides you know I mean like the Protestant political the theory was

32:58

having to rail against this um tyranny um but they but now of course we have

33:05

this if you read like Ron McIntyre's total State you have like this kind of a

33:10

direct democracy or a um democracy gone mad where you can just manufacture

33:15

consent from a bunch of individuals and manipulate them through the media and that's certainly I want to I think

33:22

that's where our major problems are at the moment this kind of a radical autonomy where you're not um

33:30

understanding that Covenant means that God himself has created the world in um

33:36

in a way where he's established certain covenants so your associations are not merely horizontal they are also vertical

33:43

so there's a vertical Dimension to the church that one's easy but there's also a vertical Dimension to your family um

33:49

and there's a vertical Dimension to your state and there's a vertical Dimension to you so you like you you should be

Redefining Manhood: Responsibilities and Duties

33:55

thinking what it's going to look like to actually be come a man is going to say okay I I've been yolked to these people

34:02

um and then there's God assigned um God assigned duties and responsibilities

34:09

within those entities and I'm supposed to fulfill them and so yeah I think we have we have

34:16

a hyper uh atomized way of thinking that kind of has to be pulled out at every point it's

34:23

just it's everywhere and it's like it's we're just conditioned over and over and over again to think in those terms and

34:30

it makes no sense of manhood because manhood like what are you supposed to do well you're supposed to produce other

34:38

humans like you like the the very act activity of maleness is like you're

34:43

carrying around seed so you are supposed to like you're supposed to marry a woman

34:49

love her sacrifice for her bless her and produce seed with her produce children like the whole the whole if you strip

34:56

that away from if you strip if Solitary Man well it's not good for man to be alone just like the Bible says um and I

35:03

often point out like I don't know if a big movie growing up for me was free will you know or not not free will uh

35:09

iron will Iron Will free free will was the was the fish movie Iron Will is like

35:15

Iron Will is the young boy that goes out into the to the winter Tundra and um and

35:21

beats all of the old men in a in a in a race in like a snow race but it's so

35:28

funny because it's so it's so American it's so inspiring it's like man against the world you know Solitary Man against

35:34

the world but it's just so untrue just it's very it's very Andrew Tate I'm sure

35:39

like it's very like you know this is but no that's not like how it actually works

35:45

the whole definition of manhood in that regard isn't fitting um so there you go

35:51

well I think part of this since you mentioned movies part of this has to do with the heroes in movies over the past 40 or so years the the the the story is

35:59

the Lone Hero sets out an adventure to conquer this overwhelming force and it's always the lone guy but we never really

36:06

focus on like no this guy is doing it as part of a team it's always it helps for storytelling it helps for movies it's

36:12

hard to communicate a bunch of different you know sort of actors working together in that way or characters working

36:17

together but it it puts the focus unhealthily on the individual as sort of the main character of their own life and

36:24

there's a there's a way in which that's true but there's a way in which it distorts what our lives actually look

36:30

like and what we can and can't do based on these righteous uh commitments that we make these covenants where we have to

36:37

keep yeah yep you definitely have the corporate um corporate

36:43

stories at work I I also thought when you mention the um the stories I think

36:49

it's Chesterton that said um something about

36:54

the old stories had normal ordinary Heroes you know and um and they went on

36:59

Great Adventures so there was always something remarkable that was thrown upon them this this is what um uh Sam

37:08

wise gamji says to Frodo and the two towers you know he's like we often think

37:14

that um the heroes like went out looking for adventure but very often the adventure just came to them like it's a

37:21

far more humble story so like what the young guy wants to be I mean I'm all for

37:26

uh go forth and Conquer go go for the exercise Dominion like um that is both biblical and it

37:32

cells okay so uh but there is another note and the the other note that's also

37:39

true and biblical might not sell as much is like just keep doing your job in

37:44

these Covenant communities you've been talking about and Adventure is coming like it's coming to you like you're just going to be like oh how did I end up

37:50

here how did I end up fighting the dragon like sometimes it just you just stumbled in upon it but then that second

37:57

theme of chesterton's quote was the ordinary hero like that that doesn't

38:03

sell so much right now right definitely not in the Trump Elon Musk

38:09

moment and I don't know why it is I think I have a a knack for finding truths that don't

Ordinary Heroism Over Self-Infatuation

38:15

sell this so I'm like you know like right now let's just lean into like

38:20

being a great man and doing awesome things expect great things from God attempt great things for God all those

38:25

things are true and they would sell right now because I mean elon's like just sent

38:31

spaceships up and rescued the the astronauts or whatever it's like extraordinary things that are happening

38:38

um but this line from Chester like no be an ordinary hero like which is

38:43

essentially don't be stop being infatuated with yourself which is what the what the manosphere kind of the

38:50

problem of the manosphere U like actually just do good to others um bless

38:56

other people and you'll find yourself being like an actual Meek Moses likee figure like just

39:05

um Lewis talks about this in um Mere Christianity like if you found a man who

39:10

really wasn't prideful uh what would strike you about him is that he would just be U genuinely interested in what

39:17

you're saying um and and and helpful like he's just thinking less and less of

39:25

himself and more and more of other people like that would be that's the way to go if you're 18 or 19 right now well

39:33

this is this is perfect because I want to take this opportunity to transition to talking about JC riy because

39:39

particularly Holiness because one of the things that struck me the most about the book was that he took exactly what

39:45

you're saying which is the idea of being an everyday hero in he he doesn't use

39:51

his language but in covenants and the the real battle that every man has to fight wherever he finds himself is the

39:58

battle for righteousness and he frames the pursuit of Holiness in combat War

40:05

you know Adventure kind of terms and and that's and he he does that straight up

40:10

front with the book and sets the stage of a version of Christian masculinity that is very inward focused in the

40:16

battle against sin whereas I think we get very outward focused in the battle against the world and so maybe we can

40:23

talk a bit about how Riley puts the focus more squarely back on ourselves as men and of course he has thoughts for

40:29

young men Michael Foster wrote the introduction to thoughts for young men and then you wrote the introduction to Holiness so I thought these two could

40:35

fit together quite well yeah man the inner the internal and external is a

40:41

great um that's some great terrain to work on there so because you have to do

40:47

both you just have to do both and of course pietism we've railed against that

40:53

for a good while um kind of gets Lo doesn't consider the goodness of the

40:59

objective world the created World hides away and would like equate godliness

41:05

with the spiritual disciplines so and you know think if I read my Bible today and if I prayed then I've checked my

41:11

boxes and I'm Godly where it's actually in the works you're supposed to do so no like that's not it that's kind of like

41:16

that's the fuel but then you're supposed to actually go do something you're actually supposed to love somebody in tangible ways you're supposed to reform

41:24

institutions and reform culture and establish Christian town and you know exercise Dominion

41:30

throughout the Earth that's obviously if anybody knows anything about Moscow or what's going on out here things I've

41:37

written and talked about that's where all the emphasis is what's so weird is that in this moment so you then the

41:43

Trump effect has me at kind of the most fascinated moment of cultural like sons

41:49

of isachar stuff is um okay like lots of

41:56

strong lots of strong Vibes you know I mean I I can I can even

42:01

as I hear like if I say something like an ordinary hero like I can already see the memes from the dudes like I want to

42:07

be an EXT yeah they'll be ordinary I'll be extraordinary like yeah like I could just and I I get tickled about it I

42:14

think it's kind of funny like um so I'm glad that I think it's funny

42:19

because that's mean I think I think everybody's going to be okay I just think we're going through a thing and we we need to constantly be teaching so yes

Seeking Virtue in Leadership

42:26

I'm so glad now that you are focused on externals like I'm actually very happy

42:31

and so now because we're getting that it would be a great time to consider uh

42:36

ri's Holiness like what does it actually mean to be a virtuous person um I

42:43

remember I actually said this so this was like me Mis calling it I remember talking to a guy that was actually in um

42:50

in Trump's white house uh before and we're during during um B Harris time and

42:58

I was like I really think that the um I think that the next you know

43:03

conservative like people are going to be looking for um some virtue you know they're going to be looking for like a

43:09

great-hearted deal and like everyone I said that to

43:14

was like yeah yeah you're right but then Trump almost gets assassinated

43:20

like and then the whole vibe like everything changed right it actually then Trump was like the dude and maybe

43:27

and in part and in part fulfilled that um what I was thinking like now now I

43:32

mean you get shot at and you get up pumping your fist it's like okay like and so now everything's pushing that now

43:39

like everything's pushing that direction and you know like so so Elon has like

43:45

four babies mamas and like 15 kids like okay like um be fruitful Earth have

43:52

dominion you're like Okay no Okay so not exactly that that's not really it you

43:57

know that's not really it so so holiness what does it really mean to be

44:03

a man that like When sin um when your passions are at work in you do you know

44:09

how to identify that do you know how to identify the difference between virtue and passion within your own chest okay

44:16

so do you know what it's like to actually it actually takes a man to be

44:22

faithful to his wife and to get away from that woman who

44:29

you say but she's hot yeah so actually like can can you bch press that much in

44:37

your own soul and go no like cuz I'm cuz I remember hearing one say you you used

44:43

to be able to talk to this guy that's having too much to drink at the bar you know come on be a man come away from it be a man there was an association with

44:50

in a in a in the manly culture that to get drunk is is weak

44:57

right so be a man don't get drink same thing with your lust and your passions right be a man be a man you be faithful

45:06

that this is what it actually means that's that so that's moving the conversation internal to this place

45:11

where RI is going to be getting after it it actually takes a man to exercise these disciplines of confession of sin

45:18

to identify it to even to be to able to speak the truth about your sin to look back at the week before and know where

45:25

you missed the mark like I know that moment when I was coveting I know that

45:30

moment when I was greedy I know that moment when I was seeking the um the the

45:35

honor that comes from man rather than the honor that comes from God and actually you even identified it in the heart even before it manifested itself

45:43

um out externally you're that's um basically being able to do that is

45:49

essential to the external work right there's interplay and and as you do the external work and you find yourself in

45:55

these Covenant commun ities where actually have institutions that are healthy and growing that's going to help you internally so there's a there's an

46:02

interplay there but it there is a distinction to be made between the two

46:07

and we we have to um you know you have to know what's going on inside of you

46:13

that kind of thing so I want to play the play The Devil's Advocate play the young man

46:19

who's maybe listening to this conversation he's like okay I I hear I hear what you're saying and I'll just

46:24

throw a bunch of objections at you I'll pitch them down the middle and we'll see so he says okay sell me righteousness over sin

46:32

because all I see when I look around is Elon Musk sending Rockets into space and he's a billionaire and you see Donald

46:38

Trump had his 50 years of licentious living and he's doing he's doing pretty good and Andrew Tate's doing his Andrew

46:45

Tate thing I see the success of sin all around me like sell me on this

46:50

righteousness thing cuz I don't know my dad he he talked about how he was a he was a pretty good Christian and I know

46:56

who he really is so you have this young man who's sort of raised in this environment what would you say to him yeah I'd say man the

47:02

Tower of Babel was really big before it wasn't right um so I'm like hey you know

47:13

I mean Ahab and Jezebel they had like a thing going you know what I mean like this was no small feat this was a pretty

47:19

big deal but you know there was this guy named juu so the sin is always um selling you

47:31

on um on winning it's so this is what the devil

47:36

did with this is what the devil did with Eve right it look this fruit good for food that kind of thing um and you know

47:45

look you'll be like God you'll have you'll have this great knowledge and the story of of humanity would not

Knowledge, Power, Idolatry, and Jesus

47:53

be very interesting if there wasn't some kind of uh legitimacy to the

47:59

offer okay like you know you're probably going to enjoy sex with that girl you're

48:06

probably going to enjoy it okay like if that's you're probably going to build a

48:11

pretty good Kingdom you know what I mean like uh idolatry can take you a long way in life okay I me it can do it can do

48:19

some things fact now now let's bring all of my postmillennialism to this but the

48:25

problem with this guy is he's not deal deal with some kind of like dispy fell who's just telling them oh you can have all the things of the world but we'll

48:31

we'll have Jesus no it's Jesus and it's it's it's Jesus and all of this all of

48:38

this and Jesus too so I'm telling you that it's not foolishness sin is not a

48:44

good long-term strategy Babylon came falling down Jericho came falling down

48:49

Jezebel was eaten by the dogs um you know like this

48:54

is this is the way it always works hmon had a really great seat at the table in

49:01

xerx Kingdom uh but then he hung from The Gallows okay Judas you know was

49:06

living high on the money bag and then he was hung and his bowels fell out so dude

49:12

like read I would tell the guy like read the story man like you have to you have to understand that they will not win but

49:20

just because Goliath is out there like beating his chest and he looks really strong like yeah like that's but this is

49:28

the way it always works so that's what I tell them okay got another one for you okay I'm I'm I'm

49:35

with you I'm with you on that but when I when I go to church and I see the men

49:40

who are at my church and I see the pastor at my church wherever I am in the country I don't I don't see any of that

49:46

I see a bunch of weakness I see a bunch of laziness I see a I see a bunch of uh of chuckling I don't I don't see the

49:52

guys around me doing any of that so why should I well I'd say first of all like get out

49:58

of the Evangelical Lutheran Church okay like leave the

50:03

ELCA that could be your first fix um I mean obviously I want to take this guy

50:10

if I want to ask some questions to find out what's really going on because there could at least be two things going on number one he's just an arrogant little

50:17

twerp and he's wrong so I mean sometimes this gets

50:23

overplayed I think that there was like some of the young wrestlers Reform movement that that overplayed it like

50:29

you know the church is so weak and then like you got to the South and got a bunch of deacons that are just like car

50:35

mechanics and stuff and you know and you get that one good faithful Deacon that's outside like dragging on a Sig before he

50:42

comes into worship I mean that that happened to my church growing I was like d that was a cool guy um so that could

50:50

be that could be the case or it actually I then I want to fully Grant the problem

50:55

um yes effeminacy in the church is still absolutely a problem there's no doubt about it there's effeminate sermons and

51:02

there's tight pant uh worship leaders uh ever since my moved to Moscow

51:08

three years ago sometimes I forget like I really do need to be I don't I don't tap into that world at all and so it's

51:14

just like a foreign country and I remember like all every now and then I'm like oh yeah they're huge like they're actually still it's good for me to

51:20

remember because I ignore them that this is a big problem in the in the world and

51:27

if that really is the case like if you are in that very effeminate culture then

51:32

you you just have to leave it I don't think you're going to fix it buddy like you I want you to I mean give it a good

51:39

college try but here's the problem here's you're probably in a situation where um the effeminacy is so

51:47

inculturated and instantiated in the songs in the preaching in the in the

51:55

families of the people people there um that if you are a young man and

52:00

you're really looking to say I want to win in life you have to find a

52:08

masculine uh Ministry it's going to start with masculine Ministry like you

52:13

have to find the Elijah of the world and the John the Baptist of the world and

52:18

and really get there and that's crazy like I I'm not trying to diminish I'm a

52:23

big fan I'm a I'm a small see Catholic I'm I'm very I I'm very grateful for the

52:30

visible church and all of it but if I'm talking to a young man that's becoming disgruntled to our earlier conversation

52:38

you can't just um I don't want to be somebody's Andrew Tate I don't want to

52:43

be you know like or you know the whole mosow thing like benefit from the content but like

52:49

the content's got to drive you this is the content driving you to actually get somewhere where you can live like um you

52:58

can't you can't just grab sermons and content and podcasts and navigate it like you will need a church that has a

53:06

backbone and that that's hard because that might mean like it might not be in reach so you might it might you kind of

53:13

will be at a Crossroads there and I'm telling you if you can't find it it actually is worth it to go find it don't

53:20

put all your hope and when you make that move don't put your hope in man don't think oh this new community will fix

53:28

everything or or things like that but it is actually a means of Grace to have a

53:34

Ministry that has a backbone and you're going to have to find it okay so I got I got more for you so so then so so this

53:41

young man's like okay cool you're telling me to join a masculine church with a sort of a prophetic posture I

53:48

guess you might say prophetic posture towards the culture but these guys over here you know they've got they've got

53:53

this church and they're saying some really bold stuff stuff about women and they're saying some really bold stuff

53:59

about the Jews and they're saying some really bold stuff about race like why why okay so how do I choose between that

54:06

one and the kind of masculine church that you're talking about how do I make that discernment yeah well I tell them look

Controversial Views on Women Discussed

54:14

if they're saying bold stuff about women the Jews and race then they might they're probably great now let's talk

54:20

about what those bold things are and it's like oh the Bold thing they

54:25

said was like women's women are horrible and I like okay well you know now we

54:31

have to get down to what's actually going on with the dude and some of that is going to be just

54:37

dealing with his honest questions like what what are your what are they actually teaching about women you know

54:43

well if they're teaching that women should you know be silent in all the churches okay that's good that's what the Apostle Paul said right and if

54:51

they're saying wives should submit to their husbands and everything everything lawful that kind of thing great um and

54:56

then you're going to have to deal with all the other you have to constantly check it so where are you at on abuse

55:02

like what does constitute abuse abuse happens so I would want to actually deal

55:08

with that guy and then find out whether he's um they usually come of two stripes

55:13

and there's probably a middle position but the two stripes would be one a guy like humble wants it has questions as

55:21

questions about the Jews that kind of thing whatever great let's talk and the other one is arrogant and has a has a

55:31

nasty Spirit about him like could and if if he's that then you have to approach it in a different way if he's humble you

55:38

know he has you can approach it in a different way it's just going to be at that point what's going on with this guy

55:43

where does he really stand on these issues yeah where where is where is I'm glad that you said that because I think

55:48

that that's it's one of those things that in the conversations that you can feel but perhaps can't point to anything

55:54

specific like there's a spirit an aroma around this and there's I I can't put my finger on it but it's it's not right and

56:01

I can't say what it is but I maybe no yeah yeah I've um I've definitely

56:08

I've dealt with this in Ministry this particular thing and it was it is interesting because I haven't

56:16

um we've been in big fights over over recently and it's I think there was a

56:22

there was a strong um allergy against saying that this has anything to

56:29

do with fatherlessness which is really interesting so from from from the from

56:35

the from that group I mean and I think it's it's it's like it hurts there please stop doing that that's really

56:41

what's going on it's like um you know no I just have questions but it's like dude why are you so angry like you you're

56:48

you're angry and for those guys I

56:54

mean again the best thing I know to do for wise men is you give them a

57:04

shot and if they don't take it or they don't want it you have to move on when

57:10

when a guy gets like that any kind of effeminacy toward him any kind of um

57:18

yeah yeah sure we can meet again it's like no it's just like I want to be

57:24

patient but I'm talking about the that's a punk like he's a he's a real Punk he's arrogant he's it's just like dude I have

57:32

stuff to do like no but I want to talk about again I want to talk about the Jews

57:37

being behind the slave ships you know it's like dude I have like I got seven kids I got a job I got I I have to sew

57:45

the Harvest is plentiful I have to go where the fields are white to like you and you might not like it but it's

57:53

like that's it like so I think that's that's about what I have for those

57:59

types that's and I and I I just I wanted to point out like they're just so tiny

58:05

they're not like they're a very tiny group of people they're very uh unimpressive group of

58:10

people so I frankly I agree I mean having come up through the manosphere

58:16

and seen and seen a lot of that there's a lot of energy that gets channeled into outrageous topics of discussion and very

58:23

little energy that gets channeled into kid number seven right or being the being the dean and

58:29

you know a minister right and i' I've seen you with your family I I remember at uh at Grace agenda it was like

58:35

there's just a train of long Shores just like just waiting for it to pass so I

58:40

can so I can cross the tracks okay so okay so I have one one more question I'm I'm gonna give you a fast ball right

58:47

this is all right okay so okay so you got this young man and the young man's

58:52

like okay I hear everything I hear everything that you're saying and you're talking to me about this guy JC riy

58:58

thoughts for young men and you got this book Holiness and it's 500 pages and he's admonishing for Warfare and all

59:05

this stuff sounds great who's going to write the book thoughts for young women

59:10

because I look around and I wonder if anyone has the courage or strength to to write that book what do you say to that

59:16

young man oh yeah I think it'd be great um I mean I would just tell him just a heads

59:23

up like Rachel jankovic out here in Moscow just wrote that book it's called it's called Uh no time no time to be

59:29

called no time to be dumb uh I think it's just it's going live it's hot off the press and Canon you know what I mean

59:35

uh I'm always good I'm always down for book recommendations I mean like but I think you're actually just asking a

59:40

question where it sounds like one of the gals out here just just knocked that one knocked that one out um so I don't know

59:47

I don't know if that was his question but that that's actually perfect well I actually saw that announced on X yesterday like product placement yeah

59:55

shout out Jake okay okay so so but to like regardless of the book yes okay so

1:00:00

but I think there's a deeper question under him that that there's a lot of willingness and first I I agree with it

1:00:06

like in the sense there there needs to be a lot of willingness to disciple young men particularly because of the book by JC R thoughts for young men

1:00:13

where he lays out the unique problems I think that there's a bit in the beginning here where he talks about how

1:00:18

Satan particularly focuses on young men because if you Mar the bud you Mar the flower or something like that so I I

1:00:24

think it is a really important topic but I think young men are like okay you're focusing very much on me but I look

1:00:31

around at a fallen and degenerate culture and yes I would love to have seven kids but the you know find find me

1:00:38

a woman under a certain age who wants to have seven kids and isn't focused on her life and on her

1:00:43

career yeah I got it I got it so I'd look at that guy I'd say you do

1:00:50

it you do it because what's going on what's likely going on with that is he's

1:00:56

just complaining again so it's like oh God this woman you gave me oh God this

1:01:02

you know this feel this field you gave me ah but there's no but there's no resources here okay I don't have any

1:01:09

resources like just shut up and fix it dude shut up and fix it like make her

1:01:15

make but she's not the woman that she's supposed to be yeah because you're supposed to marry her first and you're

1:01:21

supposed to make her that you goofball you're supposed to sanctify the woman that's what defeats like you and I do I

1:01:28

I mean I poke fun with him and I want to you know I hope he gets it but I'm like the that qu like that but what about but

1:01:36

what about that it's just like a it's just complaining it's like dude yes like

1:01:43

the world's not what it's supposed to be but this is what it means to be a man is to be like you're the tip of the spear

1:01:49

dude like you will always be the tip of the spear so any problem you point to in the world I'm just going to be like yeah

1:01:54

fix that one too um and see what he said I think that will that helps those guys to to realize like dude you actually are

1:02:01

far more potent than you understand like you you you are the agent for fixing

1:02:07

this in the world under the second atom I mean by faith in the second adom you go and you fix you don't you just never

1:02:15

complain you don't complain about anything you don't complain about not having the money you don't complain about not having the time don't complain

1:02:22

about anything just get after it mhm they're in usually that separates the

1:02:28

wheat from the chaff like some guy one guy's going to be like dude that's good and then another dude's going to be like

1:02:33

I'm going to go find somebody else to get advice from yeah no facts I mean that's that's

1:02:39

what happens is at a certain point you as a man can observe the circumstances around you as being subpar or less than

1:02:46

ideal which would be true for all of history and you can say well what are you going to do are you going to talk

1:02:52

about it are you going to complain online to your community of Bros or whatever or are you actually going to delete the app off your phone and are

1:02:59

you going to get to work and are you going to put your shoulder to the plow for weeks months or years to accomplish

1:03:05

the goal that you want and when you look to you know to bring it back to Elon Musk or Donald Trump like these are men

1:03:10

that have worked whatever else may be true about them these are men that have devoted Decades of their lives to

From Talk to Action: Taking Charge

1:03:16

building they saw that well we're not going to Mars I would like to go to Mars so I'm going to give 20 years of my life

1:03:22

to going to Mars or Donald Trump being a being a successful real estate developer these were men that didn't just talk

1:03:29

they acted and I think there's so much impetus now to just Express online to to

1:03:36

uh expel all the energy into online communities and online complaints less so into well what are you going to do

1:03:42

tomorrow morning when you get up to advance your mission towards the thing that you want are you going to do anything at all or are you just going to

1:03:49

talk yeah Amen to that so maybe we can maybe we can just close with some ad

1:03:55

admonition to to read R maybe some of the impact that JC RI as you can see I read I read

1:04:01

the book to get ready for the uh ready for the interview maybe some of the impact that JC ri's work has had on you I know he's referred to as a man of

1:04:07

granite with a heart of a child which I think is is a beautiful phas his biographer called of that I mean you named your son riyle so maybe you can

1:04:14

talk a little bit about what his work has meant to you yeah I the best thing you're going to get from Riley is like

1:04:20

this is a tough dude that did strike the heart so I mean it's great that while we

1:04:26

haven't tried to exet it nor would we try to cuz it's such a big book but yeah yeah it's a timely it's a timely book to

1:04:32

bring up because we because it it's hitting right at that moment you have the Trump and the Elon and the externals

1:04:40

and that's we actually need that and we need a lot of that in great but we know it's not what it's supposed to be okay so what are you going to do are

Direct Path to Manly Virtue

1:04:46

you going to go back to like the prayer of Jaz or you going to go back to like weird weird flowery stuff from Crossway

1:04:53

it's like no okay let's not do that but we do need to learn what it means to be

1:04:58

virtuous people in a manly way and we do need to realize that the spirit of man

1:05:06

is as much male as his physicality as his body and so how do you actually

1:05:13

apply in a healthy not weird Evangelical way and and R's perfect for that because

1:05:20

his instructor his instruction is remarkably direct it's just your whole time reading is going to be like I'm

1:05:27

just giving you Doctrine and I'm giving you instruction and Direction um not a

1:05:34

lot of Flowery stuff just kind of this is what it means to actually become this virtuous person so I think he's a great

1:05:42

read and so if you could maybe direct men to some other books as well that have blessed you as you've grown up as a

1:05:48

man as a Christian man as a husband and a father because I I I I agree with you that content digital content is great

1:05:54

including my podcast awesome everyone's your podcast the right stuff which we can talk about for a moment if you'd

1:06:00

like but printed material forces a degree of thought and discipline and Clarity that online content just doesn't

1:06:07

that just doesn't create so maybe you could recommend some other books as well yeah oh man I mean I would I have all

1:06:13

kinds of places I would go I I'll just like what's on my desk go with what's on

1:06:19

my desk I've got a I don't have uh do I have Orthodoxy I

1:06:26

do have Orthodoxy this is just you just need to read Orthodoxy okay um like it's

1:06:33

really I really think I officially think it's my favorite book that's the other than the Bible I think I just reading it

1:06:40

again I'm just like particularly now because the online stuff will suffocate

1:06:47

you eventually so like you you'll probably like really like it for a long time but eventually you're not like it

1:06:52

it it will make you a make you a sad person so chesterton's chesterton's so

1:06:58

great because dude he's so Whimsical I just love um I just like basically need

1:07:04

to constantly be reading something from him I was just reading you know he's like angels can fly because they take

1:07:09

themselves lightly and you're just like yes dud like he's like you know like Pride bogs down and levity goes up so

1:07:16

Chesterton would be great um a weird one that I'm kind of like I've really enjoyed was this the crisis of our age

1:07:22

by petram Sorkin just read this one and this was fun with like the post-war consensus stuff because I think he's

1:07:29

he's after the first first world war and before the second and he's lamenting a

1:07:35

lot of the same things that we would lament about um he's basically it's like a like a midwar consensus or pre-war

1:07:41

consensus uh maybe without the um but it was it was very interesting to start to

1:07:47

think through like okay he's seeing all of these things um in their seed for and before

1:07:53

they metastasize that kind of thing um I got city of God here but you

1:07:59

probably shouldn't read that it's very big and it's it's you you should read it but it's it's not going to be it's not

1:08:05

going to be as refreshing as Orthodoxy um and Lewis's Hideous

1:08:11

Strength if you haven't read that that would be um another another great

1:08:18

resource um I mean that would be probably good for now okay great just one last qu one

1:08:24

last question noticed that you've started doing more podcasts with the right stuff you've had Orin McIntyre

1:08:30

Ramone Ibrahim I saw you had Forest Dickerson maybe can talk a little bit about that it's not a new show it's just

1:08:36

it's maybe some time opened up in your schedule to to do more interviews yes yes so the right stuff um it's like you

1:08:45

can get it where anywhere podcasts are doing their thing and there's like a YouTube deal I had a YouTube page for a

1:08:50

while that was Jared long we just kind of morphed it into the right stuff basically the the thought was Jake and I

1:08:58

Jake and I have talked about the need to kind of sink your teeth into something that's good true and beautiful and uh

1:09:04

and so we'll see you know it's a new little it's a new little baby thing we we'll see what happens with it if it

Uncertain Beginnings with Jake

1:09:10

will grow or die I mean I don't know what's going to happen with it but I enjoyed talking to Jake and having

1:09:16

guests on to say hey we actually think this is interesting so and I um I'm

1:09:21

doing a lot of things so Jake is basically organizing all of this stuff and we're showing up I don't always know

1:09:28

what we're getting into so we had Forest on and I hadn't read his book but it was actually really good chrispen day off I

1:09:34

think is what it's called and immediately he's taking me into poetic color so I'm kind of like a I mean I'm

1:09:39

doctrinal and stuff so that's I'm enjoying the breadth of the podcast Jake

1:09:45

uh and Forester I think there's a perfect example of they're far more astute than I am and uh they have a

1:09:51

breath that I don't so I'm like what is poetic color and I get to enjoy hearing from forest about um brush strokes and

1:09:58

things of that nature so the right stuff is a podcast you can check it out excellent well Pastor Jared thank you so

1:10:05

much for your time today this has been a great conversation I I pray it blesses many men and and the women who love them

1:10:11

and uh you know we've talked about the right stuff is there any place else you'd like to send men to find out more about you and what you

1:10:17

do uh so I write at Jared R Longshore dcom so that's kind of like if you

1:10:24

wanted to connect me that's the main place there's a way to shoot me a note uh I have steady stuff going up on that

1:10:30

blog and from there you can get like interviews sermons things of that nature and uh and yeah keep an eye out over the

1:10:37

next couple weeks you I'll be publishing most recent book uh man for the job

1:10:42

excellent well congratulations I look forward to uh to reading that as well all right thanks for having me on will

1:10:48

thanks you sir